Drama Mamas: Tank frustration
Drama Mamas Lisa Poisso and Robin Torres are experienced gamers and real-life mamas -- and just as we don't want our precious babies to be the ones kicking and wailing on the floor of the checkout lane next to the candy, neither do we want you to become known as That Guy on your realm.
/queue dramatic sporting event music
This week on Drama Mamas, the mamas duke it out for the title of Best Drama Buster! Who will win the battle for the most useful advice for a frustrated tank? Will it be Robin who thinks the tank should take a strong leadership role or Lisa who thinks that teamwork should be just that? Turn the page to read the Battle of the Drama Mamas.
Disclaimer: The mamas really just think people should choose the advice they think works best for them. We don't care about winning any battle. The previous paragraph is solely the result of overzealous introduction writing and too much caffeine.
Drama Mama Robin: We got a lot of comments from tanks when we discussed Tank Entitlement about how they only get that way after much abuse. There is a big difference between culling the players who are making your job impossible and being the butt we described there. Road, you aren't suffering from TE, but more from Tank Frustration. The rest of your team should support you, not make your job harder. As usual, communication at the outset is key. I'm going to suggest a few things to say as soon as everyone is in the group. Change it to the voice you feel most comfortable with. I'm going for firm here. You soften it as you see fit. [Edited to add emphasis. I'm not saying to use the following words. I'm saying this is the information you want to convey. Do it the best way possible. Sheesh.]
Drama Mama Lisa: Hey, I love a firm hand -- but I can't say that I'm at all a fan of any single member's "taking over" a group. I also strongly suspect that taking a tough-guy stance may doom you to a vote-kick by groupmates who relish neither a tank as their boss nor a bossy tank. Might I offer some alternatives?
What I'm more concerned about is the tone you're setting for yourself and your groups. If you immediately seize control in your iron-fisted grip to establish yourself as an armor-clad tyrant, you're setting a pretty grim tone. Furthermore, heading into groups with gritted teeth makes it fairly unlikely that you (or anyone else) will have fun unless something truly remarkable manages to break the ice.
Robin and I have written plenty already about the drama that can be associated with dungeon finder randoms. If you're still uncertain what approach might feel best to you, read our past advice as well as the reader feedback:
Drama buster of the week
This week's drama buster is brought to you by Capt. Obvious. Don't queue for a random unless you are fully equipped, prepared and ready to play. You are responsible for all of your own consumables. Make sure your gear is repaired and the best you have available. And don't even think about queuing up while you suffer from rez sickness. People will be understandably upset at you if you show up unprepared. So avoid the drama by taking care of the details in between queues.
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with a little help and insight from the Drama Mamas. Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas@wow.com.
/queue dramatic sporting event music
This week on Drama Mamas, the mamas duke it out for the title of Best Drama Buster! Who will win the battle for the most useful advice for a frustrated tank? Will it be Robin who thinks the tank should take a strong leadership role or Lisa who thinks that teamwork should be just that? Turn the page to read the Battle of the Drama Mamas.
Disclaimer: The mamas really just think people should choose the advice they think works best for them. We don't care about winning any battle. The previous paragraph is solely the result of overzealous introduction writing and too much caffeine.
Dear Drama Mamas,
I've recently been leveling up a tank and am starting to worry about my attitude toward the rest of my dungeon groups. I never really "got" all of the drama about the random dungeon finder until it started feeling like the fate of the group was on my shoulders. As the tank, I've got to lead the group through each instance, understand how to pull each room, decide how many mobs we can handle at a time, etc. It's a lot of responsibility, but I really enjoy it. It's a fun challenge after two years of only playing DPS.
That said, more and more, my patience for ... ummm ... imprecise or inconsiderate play has rapidly evaporated. At first, it was just when other players pulled mobs or packs of mobs. Then it moved to people rolling need on lock boxes ... posting their DPS numbers ... blaming others for their own bad play. I run with a healer, and we kick with relish and impunity. Mamas, I am one small step from becoming the stereotypical diva tank!
Look, I realize that some of this has become over the top, but I do need to be able to pull the room correctly and there is a lot of fail in the random dungeon finder, especially where I am leveling (Outland). Help me put this game and role back into perspective before I turn into a complete jerk tank. Thanks!
Road to Nowhere
- "Hello and welcome to [insert dungeon name here]. My name is Road and I will be your tank. Buff up while I tell you the rules." This has the double benefit setting the rules and giving time to get/give buffs (a common complaint). If someone replies with gogogo, give them the choice to leave or be kicked. You don't need their kind here.
- "I am doing the pulling. If anyone else pulls, I'll initiate a votekick without further warning." If someone accidentally pulls, bend this rule. But you want to be clear at the outset that impatient DPS are not welcome.
- "I will pull according to healer readiness." A happy healer is a good healer.
- "Control your aggro. Wait for me to fully engage the mobs before you AoE." Capt. Obvious wishes this didn't have to be said.
- "Quickly roll need on everything you want. Negotiate trades during downtime." I see you don't follow this now and this is a controversial choice. But if you say it at the outset, everyone has the same expectations and there is no loot drama and few loot slowdowns.
- "If you don't agree with these rules, leave now so we can replace you." The hardcore funsuckers will still stay and not follow the rules just for the lulz, but you'll actually find that this will reduce the instances of that. If the immature find they don't have the audience and support for their antics, they'll often ride on your obviously experienced coattails and save it for the next, less well-led run.
- "Hey guys. I'd like to make this a "real" run and be able to tank without having everything pulled off and AoEed to shreds. My healer buddy here prefers it, as well. Any objections to a straight-up group?" If only one or two other players object, feel free to reply, "Great, that's how we'll run then. Ready?" However, if all three others prefer a gogogo/AoE group, you're outnumbered; say good-bye and good luck, drop group and move on.
- "I'll handle the pulling." No aggressive directives, no threats, simply a matter-of-fact volunteering for a vital role that also clarifies group dynamics. If anybody else does pull, be ready with a reminder and a polite request to lay off.
- "Can we agree to roll quickly, no need rolls on anything you'll sell, and negotiate trades during downtime?" This establishes the ground rules without being heavy-handed -- oh, and you've also gotten on the record that you do expect there to be some downtime.
What I'm more concerned about is the tone you're setting for yourself and your groups. If you immediately seize control in your iron-fisted grip to establish yourself as an armor-clad tyrant, you're setting a pretty grim tone. Furthermore, heading into groups with gritted teeth makes it fairly unlikely that you (or anyone else) will have fun unless something truly remarkable manages to break the ice.
Robin and I have written plenty already about the drama that can be associated with dungeon finder randoms. If you're still uncertain what approach might feel best to you, read our past advice as well as the reader feedback:
- Agreeing to a loot scheme that works
- Constructive criticism in random groups
- Mismatched dungeon finder group goals
- The ugly results of boot-happy groups
Drama buster of the week
This week's drama buster is brought to you by Capt. Obvious. Don't queue for a random unless you are fully equipped, prepared and ready to play. You are responsible for all of your own consumables. Make sure your gear is repaired and the best you have available. And don't even think about queuing up while you suffer from rez sickness. People will be understandably upset at you if you show up unprepared. So avoid the drama by taking care of the details in between queues.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 9)
siimmart Aug 27th 2010 1:03PM
Captain Obvious is here to save the day!
Captain Obvious- you'd better not get in his way!
Armill3 Aug 27th 2010 3:06PM
...and yet I've had tanks port into the instance with rez sickness. >.<
I don't think it would be too much to ask for Blizzard to prevent using LFD while you have rez sickness.
iammurlocftw Aug 27th 2010 10:31PM
I queue as DPS with res sickness so rather not letting you queue, lets say if your not dps you have to wait until it wears off before you are accepted into one, that way the dps can have it wear off during the queue and if it doesnt it's usually only got 2 minutes and 2 minutes of bad dps on trash never hurt anyone except at the end of HoR (but if you had a dps with res sickness how did you get there anyway
gamerunknown Aug 29th 2010 6:08AM
Dps can't run random heroics all day. Their queues are too long. So they'll either have to AFK or do other game things while waiting for the queue.
and if they queued near a hub they can port out, grab what they need and port back in. Worst comes to worst, you can start without them unless you're in HoR.
Cheb Aug 27th 2010 1:09PM
I cannot say how much I wish the Drama Buster for this week would be starred, glittered, and maybe sparkle-ized. I queue as a healer with a tank, and it is very annoying to port into a dungeon only to have a dps ask for a repair bot because he didn't repair and one of his weapons is red. Or a huntard have to port out to go buy arrows because he didn't buy any while he was waiting in the queue. Or that ret pally needs to borrow some symbols of kings if anyone wants a buff that lasts more than 10 minutes. I get that waiting 30 minutes in the queue as dps is boring, but you can't use any of that time to get your stuff together?
bored_dps Aug 27th 2010 1:28PM
What you may not realize Cheb, is that since DPS have a 30min queue we often go on questing or doing w/e else we need to do. Sometimes that queue pops up short of us having time to get back and repair before we expect the queue to pop.
I typically carry 400-500 kings symbols on me and 20-30 divinity symbols and I try to keep my equipment repaired after every run or 5-10 quests. However, I'm not perfect (just like you) and sometimes I forget to check my reagents, or didn't have a chance to repair. Not knowing if you'll be running in 10 minutes or (literally) 1.5 hours from the time you enter the queue is a problem.
tl:dr: Quit whining - you are no better than the other people playing
Cheb Aug 27th 2010 1:40PM
Methinks bored_dps doth protest too much. Asking for the common courtesy of you being prepared for an instance when you put yourself in LFD is not whining.
bored_dps Aug 27th 2010 1:54PM
Also, if you bothered to read my comment, I carry eveyrthing I need and I can count on one hand the number of times I've slowed up a run for a whopping 60 seconds. This isn't something happening every day.
My point was a bit caustic - so I apologize for that. I'm just sick of this holier-than-thou attitude that is so pervasive in the tank/healer communities. Stop judging all dps because of a few bad apples. I don't judge all tanks from the level 58 DKs trying to tank Ramparts, so stop judging all dps based off your experience with a new player.
DavidC Aug 27th 2010 2:00PM
@Bored_DPS: "What you may not realize Cheb, is that since DPS have a 30min queue we often go on questing"
Give us a break huh? YOU are part of the problem I can see. Repair, buy ammo, buy reagents, check the AH, get your gems / enchants, etc, etc, etc BEFORE YOU quest,BG,scratch nutts, etc, etc.
The point is there is ABSOLUTELY no excuse for DPS to not be ready. Tanks with insta queue's are another story ... healers with 2-5 min waits could maybe-sorta-not-really have an excuse.
DavidC Aug 27th 2010 2:05PM
@bored_dps: "so I apologize for that. I'm just sick of this holier-than-thou attitude that is so pervasive in the tank/healer communities."
And the rest of us are sick of DPS slowing down the instance. Face it ... DPS is a DIME-A-DOZEN and you can EASILY be replaced. That's not elitism, it's a FACT.
So where you migth be "sick of holier" attitude, we are sick of getting our time wasted ... and consequently, making runs go slower and making DPS have to wait around longer for us to finish and requeue.
Cheb Aug 27th 2010 2:05PM
Well, really, there's no excuse to not be ready, imo. If you know you have a fast queue, get everything you need done first, then queue. It does not take that long to repair and buy reagents. If you don't lag, you could probably hearth back to Dal, repair, and buy reagents and still be able to hit the accept button on the Dungeon Finder if you hearthed right after it popped up.
@bored_dps:
"I'm just sick of this holier-than-thou attitude that is so pervasive in the tank/healer communities. Stop judging all dps because of a few bad apples."
Asking dps to be prepared for something they signed up for is a 'holier than thou attitude'? And those are what we call 'examples'. I do several runs with LFD, and by and large, people are great. But that Drama Buster does need to be starred, glittered, and sparkle-ized for people, because there are still people who think it's ok to waste everyone else's time. And that's just rude.
thegatherer Aug 27th 2010 2:27PM
LOL I find this whole discussion humorous.
You guys do realize you are arguing about delaying an instance that most people faceroll in less time than the average sitcom?
60 seconds? 2 minutes? Big deal. What about when the tanks that drop group after a single wipe in HOR without an explanation and the heals follows?
The fact of the matter is that with 5-mans being so easy now, we take for granted that it used to be a luxury to have a ready made group go into a random dungeon, much less multiple random dungeons in a row.
Should you be fully prepared for a run with all your reagent? Yes, however, if you find yourself without any, it takes, what, 2 minutes to hearth, get the reagents, and then port back to the instance? Learn some patience, and everyone will be happier.
Signed,
Well Prepared DPS
Jack Miles Aug 27th 2010 2:32PM
See; the solution to this would be to abandon the idea that the run should start the second an instance que ends. You've waited half an hour, you can wait another 2 minutes while every repairs/stocksup before teleporting to the instance. Blizzard could change this simply by have instance teleports not be automatic.
RoseClown Aug 27th 2010 2:32PM
Perhaps you should have READ the points Bored_Dps made.
DPS... we sometimes have no clue when are que will pop. If I que up while questing, and I see a 28 minute que, I will usually quest for 20 of those minutes pop into Dalaran and get all my ammo/regeants and such, and then go fishing or something. Basically, I have a timetable planned.
...But then, every now and again, the que will pop in 5 minutes when it says 30. We qued in the middle of nowehere. Heck, we might be on our way to Dalaran and it popped even though it said we had plenty of time. Well, frick.
THESE are the instances Bored_DPS is saying applies to a lot of good dps. We don't have the leisure that healers and tanks do of simply getting stuff the popping into a instant que. We just don't. And so, every now and again, this will come to bite us on the butt in the form of not enough ammo. Or missing regeants. Or other such annoyances.
Kurly Aug 27th 2010 2:40PM
I agree, that everyone should have the reagents they need. Normally I carry plenty of water and reagents, but there are situations where you can get caught flatfooted. I was recently on my level 69 druid and queued for a dungeon and dinged 70 just before my dungeon popped.
Of course the reagent I had in my bags for GOTW no longer worked so I'm trying to get MOTW cast on everyone while the tank is pulling like a maniac... and mana regen at that level bites.
After that random failed I bought the proper reagent and ALSO bought the one I'll need when the druid turns 80 so I don't get caught short again.
Shepherd57 Aug 27th 2010 2:45PM
Just the other day I as the tank went into the dungeon and couldn't hold aggro for the life of me. The healer was pulling aggro and thankfully the dps had enough damage to kill the mobs before the became taunt immune. I realized after the second boss in AN that I had logged out the night before while fishing and hadn't reequipped my staff. Once I did that no problems. I didn't hold the group up because the dps had everything down in 30seconds but sometimes something just plains skips our mind.
This also reminds me of those times back as a healer that I got into a habit of never repairing and for the first few dungeons as a tank that habit really came back to bite me. Thankfully I never log off now without repairing. I just leave my fishing pole equipped.
Cheb Aug 27th 2010 2:48PM
@ Kurly
My main comment was more towards the people to run random h's all day. Stuff happens when you're leveling. The situation you bring up is a perfect example. You ding, and now reagents are obsolete, or you have to go train before the rankwatch mafia spams you non-stop with whispers about how your spell needs to be trained up a level. It's a lot different from an 80 dps running about QQing because they have long queues that somehow take away their ability to be prepared for something they sign up for.
SerenityNow Aug 27th 2010 3:01PM
Wow, there's a lot of indiscriminate rage going on in this sub-thread. I run as both dps and tank, and like many people I've seen plenty of examples of great and terribad in both roles. Let's just all agree that dpsers should do their very best to be prepared with pots, ammo, etc before entering the random (even if they have to spend 20+ mins questing while in the queue), treat tanks and healers with some appreciation, and not deliberately pull aggro. And that tanks should not assume that all dpsers are incompetant, and act like divas. I expect I'll offend some with my comment or wording. But that isn't the objective. I'm just tired of this war of words between tanks and dpsers. It's a game, and most of us are cool players. Let's not let the bad minority ruin it for the rest of us. :-) And kudos to Road to Nowhere for trying to stay a considerate and decent player.
h0sti1e17 Aug 27th 2010 3:15PM
As far as symbol of Kings, I am a pally (I tank) and sometimes people complain if I give them 10 minute buffs as opposed to 30. I tell them, wait until you are buffless before you complain. As long as you are always buffed does it matter how long the buff lasts? I always buff myself first, so when I get the 1 minute warning that my buff is wearing off I buff everyone again. I usually have symbols, but sometimes, my hearth is on cooldown and I am not where I can get some. The bottom line, is don't complain until you lose a buff.
SerenityNow Aug 27th 2010 3:19PM
Would like to add that when I wrote my original comment the only existing replies were filled with anger and vitriol. Since then other (calmer) comments have been posted. In fairness to bored_dps, he/she did apologise for being so blunt. Fair play. As for forgetting your fishing pole was attached, I think we've all done something like that once or twice. :-)