Insider Trader: Making gold with titansteel
Insider Trader is a column about professions, written by Basil "Euripides" Berntsen, also the writer for the Gold Capped column. If you're looking for general auction house advice, you'll find it in Gold Capped, whereas Insider Trader will be focusing on specific profitable markets. Basil quickly realized that if he kept writing large comprehensive trade skill posts, he'd quickly run out of ideas for this column, so he decided to start deep diving into specific markets instead of trying to cram all the options into a single post.
I mentioned this briefly in my mining post, but Titansteel Bars are one of those products that seems to be used for just about everything. Check out the Wowhead "Reagent for" tab, and you'll see what I mean. It is also used in very large quantities by the more popular items, like the iLvl 264 BoE crafted items. One way or another, titansteel is one of those things that seems to have bottomless demand and is therefore an excellent product to sell.
High demand means high profit?
OK, so it's not perfect. Titansteel may always sell quickly, but that just means you'll have more competition. Also, every buyer has a fairly good idea of what market price is, so when the supply dries up, you can't make too much of a premium. Let's look at your costs.
Saronite Ore on a weekday is about 16g a stack, fires are usually about 19g, earths are usually about 3.5g, and shadow is about 7. Final cost: 61.5g. I can sell titansteel for about 75g some days.
Some days?
OK, realistically that's only on the weekends if your competition is out of stock or busy. The nice part of selling titansteel is that it's mostly AFK work to makel however, it's a lot of AFK work. On the weekends, most people like to, you know, actually play. Unless we're crazy enough to have purchased a second account just to do trade skills without costing us playtime, then we're going to be limited in how much of the stuff we can crank out in a week. Just look at the time costs: Transmuting three titanium takes 15 seconds, and smelting 20 saronite bars takes 30 seconds. Plus you have to buy all the base materials and run around emptying and refilling your bags.
As with any market that only has a single end product, your pricing and posting methods will be a large factor in your success. When you're pricing your titansteel, remember that there's a very hefty deposit cost. Personally, I list smallish batches for 12 hours; however, whenever I notice that the competition is running low, I'll blast out 50 bars or so. I wouldn't take that risk if I knew I'd be undercut right away, but when the conditions are right, I can make 750g profit in a night. If the crafting was true AFK time (as in time that didn't take me away from some other auctioneering task), it's very much worth it. One problem I run into periodically is campers who never list more than 12 bars with a short duration, but check the auction house (seemingly) 10 times a night. The best way to deal with these people is to either camp back (use the mobile app if you have to) or undercut until they lose interest or start buying you out.
Lastly, since there is a decently long turnaround on making new stock, this is one of those markets where you might be able to turn a quick profit overcutting when the supply starts to thin, buying competitors' stock and listing it yourself.
As for stack size, I like to list them in singles and doubles simply because there's no one recipe that's more popular than all the others. I've sold stacks of 20 before at a good price, but that was right after the removal of the titanium transmute cooldown, and back then, mats were cheaper.
Saronite sink
I like to think of titansteel as a saronite sink. Not that I've needed one for a few months, but every so often, I find way more saronite than I could ever conceivably prospect or use some other way, and this is a simply way to get rid of it for a decent profit. If the titansteel market is saturated, I'll also just sell titanium or saronite bars, but one of the nice things about titansteel is that there's so much consistent demand.
Insider Trader takes you behind the scenes of the bustling subculture of professional craftsmen, examining the profitable, the tragically lacking and the methods behind the madness. Don't forget to check out the author's Call to Auction podcast. Do you have questions about selling, reselling and building your financial empire on the auction house? Basil is now taking questions for a special series, "Ask an auctioneer," at basil@wow.com.
I mentioned this briefly in my mining post, but Titansteel Bars are one of those products that seems to be used for just about everything. Check out the Wowhead "Reagent for" tab, and you'll see what I mean. It is also used in very large quantities by the more popular items, like the iLvl 264 BoE crafted items. One way or another, titansteel is one of those things that seems to have bottomless demand and is therefore an excellent product to sell.
High demand means high profit?
OK, so it's not perfect. Titansteel may always sell quickly, but that just means you'll have more competition. Also, every buyer has a fairly good idea of what market price is, so when the supply dries up, you can't make too much of a premium. Let's look at your costs.
- 3 titanium bars, usually made from a total of 24 Saronite Bars (or 20 if you're a transmutation master with a 20 percent bonus to yield).
- An Eternal Fire, either purchased from the AH or Frozo.
- An Eternal Earth and Shadow, never purchased from Frozo.
Saronite Ore on a weekday is about 16g a stack, fires are usually about 19g, earths are usually about 3.5g, and shadow is about 7. Final cost: 61.5g. I can sell titansteel for about 75g some days.
Some days?
OK, realistically that's only on the weekends if your competition is out of stock or busy. The nice part of selling titansteel is that it's mostly AFK work to makel however, it's a lot of AFK work. On the weekends, most people like to, you know, actually play. Unless we're crazy enough to have purchased a second account just to do trade skills without costing us playtime, then we're going to be limited in how much of the stuff we can crank out in a week. Just look at the time costs: Transmuting three titanium takes 15 seconds, and smelting 20 saronite bars takes 30 seconds. Plus you have to buy all the base materials and run around emptying and refilling your bags.
As with any market that only has a single end product, your pricing and posting methods will be a large factor in your success. When you're pricing your titansteel, remember that there's a very hefty deposit cost. Personally, I list smallish batches for 12 hours; however, whenever I notice that the competition is running low, I'll blast out 50 bars or so. I wouldn't take that risk if I knew I'd be undercut right away, but when the conditions are right, I can make 750g profit in a night. If the crafting was true AFK time (as in time that didn't take me away from some other auctioneering task), it's very much worth it. One problem I run into periodically is campers who never list more than 12 bars with a short duration, but check the auction house (seemingly) 10 times a night. The best way to deal with these people is to either camp back (use the mobile app if you have to) or undercut until they lose interest or start buying you out.
Lastly, since there is a decently long turnaround on making new stock, this is one of those markets where you might be able to turn a quick profit overcutting when the supply starts to thin, buying competitors' stock and listing it yourself.
As for stack size, I like to list them in singles and doubles simply because there's no one recipe that's more popular than all the others. I've sold stacks of 20 before at a good price, but that was right after the removal of the titanium transmute cooldown, and back then, mats were cheaper.
Saronite sink
I like to think of titansteel as a saronite sink. Not that I've needed one for a few months, but every so often, I find way more saronite than I could ever conceivably prospect or use some other way, and this is a simply way to get rid of it for a decent profit. If the titansteel market is saturated, I'll also just sell titanium or saronite bars, but one of the nice things about titansteel is that there's so much consistent demand.
Filed under: Economy, Insider Trader (Professions)







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Josin Sep 1st 2010 1:07PM
Titansteel has become my main source of income. A half hour to 45 minutes spent farming mining nodes in Wintergrasp will usually yield me a stack or more of Titanium, and probably 5x that in Saronite, plus a fair number of Eternals, especially if I stop off and grab the motes in the SE corner.
I can make 10 TS bars a day relatively easily, and 75G is a good average price on my server. When the supply is empty, I can frequently get away with selling for as high as 95, though I never list more than 5 at a time at that price, or I end up with unsold TS, as the undercutters shuffle in.
Man, I really hope this article doesn't kill my market.
ggrooms Sep 1st 2010 1:20PM
If anything, it may up your market if you adjust. Selling the eternals/saronite/titanium itself could be more profitable after this post so adapt accordingly.
Grovinofdarkhour Sep 1st 2010 4:40PM
Call me crazy, but I think you guys are waaaaay overestimating the percentage of the WoW player base that actually reads WoW.com with any regularity.
Sorcha Sep 1st 2010 5:40PM
Interestingly, I've found I've been able to pinpoint players who read WoW.com by watching these articles go out and then watching the AH. It's the same names jumping into new markets each time.
feniks9174 Sep 1st 2010 1:13PM
I stopped dealing with the saronite -> Titansteel conversion on my last realm simply because every single step was a loss. Saronite bars were cheaper than their equivalent in Ore, you might break even with Titanium if you get lucky with X-Mute procs and Titansteel was cheaper than the mats required to make it unless you farmed all three of the Eternals, which, could take an hour or two since we never had Wintergrasp and the other farming spots were fairly crowded.
So glad I transferred off . . .
Darthregis Sep 1st 2010 1:20PM
I don't understand why your faction needs to hold WG to farm there. I've found that as long as you aren't there right before (or after) a WG battle, competition for ore is pretty thin - regardless of who has the keep.
feniks9174 Sep 1st 2010 3:07PM
I only referenced WG in regards to farming Eternals, since the bigger elementals that are only visible when you hold WG have a much higher drop rate on Crystallized.
Darthregis Sep 2nd 2010 2:13PM
Fair enough, although Saronite also drops tons of Earth and Shadow. Fire is really the only "tricky" eternals for those particular mats.
MaxBliss Sep 1st 2010 1:30PM
"simply smelt saronite, transmute titanium and transmute titansteel."
Not aware of any way to transmute titansteel. It is a smelting process.
cong madajewski Sep 1st 2010 3:32PM
I just read that patch 3.3.3 removes the cooldown on titansteel smelting (and I didn't even know that till now). Well can't wait till I get home tonight to make big bucks.
Quorniya Sep 1st 2010 1:53PM
The economy on my server (Proudmoore-US Horde) is very strange. Saronite ore is consistently worth more than its equivalent in saronite bars (17g per stack of ore, 30g per stack of bars), and titanium bars sell for less than the equivalent number of saronite bars needed to xmute them. Not only that, eternal fire sells for 25+ g each (I've seen it as high as 38g), while frozen orbs are as low as 20g. Given all of that, Titansteel frequently sells for less than the total cost of the mats needed to make it, even if you buy the cheaper titanium bars directly rather than xmuting them.
The weird price difference between orbs and eternal fire, though, can be a gold mine. I don't have enough time these days to really exploit it, so consider this a free tip for all Proudmoore Hordies!
Shorten Sep 1st 2010 2:23PM
You just described a mature, saturated market, where all profit is squeezed out by keeping everything at relatively low cost and selling as much as possible. Under such conditions, mats are sold at higher premium then the results because they have more *potential*, in as much as they can be pushed into other markets.
If you have both the mats and the means to produce stuff from them faster than you can sell either, you *will* saturate the market at some point and after that the only way to earn more per time played is by selling at all stages of the production line to increase overall sales, albeit accepting lower return per base item used (ex:o re). Usually this sort of pricing mechanic rushes most wanna-be-auctioneers from the market and may have the complimentary benefit of buying you a clearing of several days under more favorable conditions.
CodeMunki Sep 1st 2010 2:38PM
My server is the same. The only difference is that I can make a small profit buying Saronite ORE and converting to Titanium bars. I can make roughly 3g per bar, but can only unload a few bars a day due to the saturated market. It's not worth the time.
Risa Sep 1st 2010 3:05PM
Not bad. On Ally side (Proudmoore US) We have saronite ore at just under 18g a stack with the following stacks at 19g+. A stack of Saronite Bar is currently 35g - 38g. Eternal Fire however are at a lower price that I have seen at 19g a stack. Normally see them for 25 or so. Eternal Shadow are 8.5g with Earth at 3.5g. Titansteel bars atm are 80g at the lowest price point. 81g for single bar sale.
Risa Sep 1st 2010 3:20PM
So looking at my math on buying Titanium bars, my cost is 75.25 gold with the purchase of the eternals since say I place them for 79g on the AH, if they sell the AH cut is 3g 95 silver of the sale, my profit is -20 silver >.
Pyromelter Sep 1st 2010 3:23PM
You guys have some expensive saronite. Sure, sometimes people on my server will buy out the cheap stuff, but you usually can find saronite in the 60s-75s range. At 17g/stack, you're at 85s/ore. Even Basil's 80s/ore is on the high-ish side compared to my server. I've never seen saronite ore that high on my server for long periods of time.
Noyou Sep 1st 2010 3:24PM
Sounds like you could buy up the frozen orbs and convert them to eternal fire (via Frozzo) and sell those puppies for 5-18g each depending on market saturation. 2 things I like to check daily :)
Trilynne Sep 1st 2010 1:56PM
The realm's market used as an example in this article must be different than mine. xP I don't think I could make a profit on titansteel, unless I got lucky with some really cheap mats; generally, it sells for maybe a gold or two more than it costs to make it. So I guess I could make a bit of profit, but I'm a 'casual' AHer, not as intense as Mr. Berntsen. :P
Pyromelter Sep 1st 2010 3:20PM
I changed my mining alt from blacksmithing to alchemy for just this purpose. What's great is that once you have your mining to max, you never have to farm again if you don't want to. Just buy tons of cheap saronite ore, go smelt and /afk, then transmute and /afk, then smelt the titanstell while /afk.
Basil, the only thing that concerns me at this point is coming to the end of the expansion, a lot of people seem to be dumping things (especially flasks and gems). A lot of the raw mats are still selling at stable prices, but it's been months now that flasks have been way below material costs, and I'm wondering at what point things like titansteel, leg enchants, enchanting scrolls will not be bought or profitable anymore.
I have to admit I'm trying as hard as I can to dump stuff now in preparation for that, so may I suggest an article about playing the AH in these end-of-Wrath days? (and how not to be left holding the bag?) Also, maybe describing what will still be worth it in the next xpac (like enchanting mats, eternals, raw ore and bars, etc).
spamofchaz Sep 1st 2010 4:16PM
Have you talked about how you decide how long to post auctions for? I typically set mine for 48 hours mostly because I want to delay the expire/repost rigmarole for as long as possible. I'm not an undercutter and the only time I cancel auctions is if I made an error when I made them. So what is the benefit of having a 12 or 24 hour auction?