The Daily Blues: Camo looking badass -- not bug
by Adam Holisky 
Sep 3rd 2010 at 9:00AM
Ghostcrawler's words, not mine.
Table of contents
Ghostcrawler
Ghostcrawler -- WarriorsQuote:
I'm not sure I agree with this. I can understand wanting to keep it simple, but like someone else said, if you're going to have 3 glyphs that we're always going to have with no variation, and none of them have any effect on the rotation... couldn't we just stick with minor/major glyphs, and just remove the prime glyphs entirely?
I'm not sure I agree with this. I can understand wanting to keep it simple, but like someone else said, if you're going to have 3 glyphs that we're always going to have with no variation, and none of them have any effect on the rotation... couldn't we just stick with minor/major glyphs, and just remove the prime glyphs entirely?
A few things:
First, it would be a weird world in which a warrior say could glyph Charge and Battle Shout but not Mortal Strike. It might make sense to savvy players who thought through it, but I'd wager you'd also see a lot of "Why don't they make glyphs that affect the buttons I care most about? Blizzard is dumb." (And to be clear, the point of that is not to defend ourselves against agitated forum posters, but that if something in the game is confusing like that in can get in the way of having fun.)
Second, gaining power when you level up is fun. Hitting a milestone where you get a noticeable damage bonus is fun. There is also some mildly interesting decisions about which prime glyph to use first. In other words, don't view everything through the lens of the maximum level player.
Third, not everything in the game needs to be a nail-biting decision. We don't for example really want Fury warriors to stress about whether to choose Raging Blow or not, nor we do we make it particularly challenging to choose your weapon enchant. Sometimes easy decisions make players feel more comfortable rather than every potential decision having a host of invisible pitfalls. This isn't an issue of catering to the dumb players -- it's more about there being a few safe places in the game. [I feel nearly certain after re-reading that paragraph that it's going to be hard to understand and I will end up having to clarify it for months to come.]
Finally, I'd argue that the popular glyphs on live today already were the no brainers because in most cases they led to a consistent dps increase (for dps specs of course). When everyone uses those glyphs, then you aren't making some interesting decision about how to use your abilities -- you're just doing what every other warrior out there is doing. The only way to deviate from that is to have two glyphs that affect your primary abilities in two totally different but equal ways. That's a very tall order, because more than likely we'll end up having to constantly adjust around that. "Encounter #4 in Grim Batol is unfair to warriors who use the Glyph of Furious Mortal Strikes instead of the Glyph of Meaty Mortal Strikes." What I mean is that we end up having to support multiple play styles within one tree. We're willing to do that to a limited extent (the TG vs. SMF Fury warrior for example, or the FFB mage), but it's hard enough to develop 1-2 viable rotations per spec. We don't want every important glyph bifurcating that rotation even more.
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Quote:
When enrage first changed to a proc on hit, a lot of people said the issue was fixed, so I figured I'd wait a few builds. But now we're seeing the same problems crop up again in the complaints being voiced in the beta forums. The unreliable uptime results in differences between TG and SMF, and makes RB far too much like a random proc. Damage varies wildly as you get a 20% buff that comes and goes at random, and this makes us heavily RNG reliant, if we have a fight with good RNG and we end up with near 100% uptime our damage will be absurd. A fight with bad RNG and our damage is abysmal. The current rotation is basically everything we should be trying to avoid as far as random effects go.
When enrage first changed to a proc on hit, a lot of people said the issue was fixed, so I figured I'd wait a few builds. But now we're seeing the same problems crop up again in the complaints being voiced in the beta forums. The unreliable uptime results in differences between TG and SMF, and makes RB far too much like a random proc. Damage varies wildly as you get a 20% buff that comes and goes at random, and this makes us heavily RNG reliant, if we have a fight with good RNG and we end up with near 100% uptime our damage will be absurd. A fight with bad RNG and our damage is abysmal. The current rotation is basically everything we should be trying to avoid as far as random effects go.
Damage won't vary wildly over the course of a fight, just in the second to second snapshots of where you are. You also have plenty of on demand enrages if you just need it to happen right then. Our combat model (for nearly every spec) involves having to manage random events. We see every day players who want to minimize the influence of randomness in their rotation, but they're looking for an experience like Street Fighter, not an RPG. Fury in particular is too static on Live, so we're committed to mixing it up a little.
Don't worry about TG vs. SMF balance yet. Just pick one and see how the rotations feels with your chosen playstyle.
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Quote:
That said, increasing the duration of Bloodsurge to 10 sec would go a LONG way in making fury feel less frustrating when not enraged
That said, increasing the duration of Bloodsurge to 10 sec would go a LONG way in making fury feel less frustrating when not enraged
Yeah, we buy that. I think it also makes sense that Raging Blow not proc Bloodsurge, since that's not when you need an increased proc chance.
Ghostcrawler -- Selfless HealerWe're fine with Selfless Healer. It's not going anywhere. We are slightly sympathetic to the concern that the opportunity cost is too high given that you're giving up a Templar's Verdict and that's the kind of thing we might mess with. However, if the idea of having a talent focused solely on healing (and not self preservation) offends you, then skip the talent. It's intended to be optional. There are paladins out there who like the concept of being able to help out healing in a 5-player dungeon or like being able to save lives once in awhile, and the talent is aimed at them.
Ghostcrawler -- Hunter dead zone in the betaOther
Wryxian -- Blizzard EU does have an influence on WoWWe've also recently released a whole new game to take care of too! There's no lack of stuff to do, that's for sure.
But to answer the original poster's brief question. Why do we have the Suggestions forum in the EU? We have the Suggestions forum in every supported language for WoW across the world because we need one central place per language/region to gather suggestions from. Of course, we gather suggestions also from all over the place as we find them, but believe me it helps to have one central place for them.
Does the existance of a Suggestions forum mean that EU has strong influence over the development of WoW? Yes it does. But we also influence the development of WoW from here in Europe through your feedback. It's not the first time mentioning it, but the feedback from across all five supported European languages is usually very helpful and of a high quality.
Hope that clarifies it for you.
But to answer the original poster's brief question. Why do we have the Suggestions forum in the EU? We have the Suggestions forum in every supported language for WoW across the world because we need one central place per language/region to gather suggestions from. Of course, we gather suggestions also from all over the place as we find them, but believe me it helps to have one central place for them.
Does the existance of a Suggestions forum mean that EU has strong influence over the development of WoW? Yes it does. But we also influence the development of WoW from here in Europe through your feedback. It's not the first time mentioning it, but the feedback from across all five supported European languages is usually very helpful and of a high quality.
Hope that clarifies it for you.
Blizzard
Filed under: The Daily Blues
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Cyonisper Sep 3rd 2010 9:09AM
I honestly sickens me to see people complaining about Talents...
As GC said, if you dont like it, no one is forcing you to use it.
This (Among many... MANY other reasons) is why I never visit the WoWforums.
thebitterfig Sep 3rd 2010 11:56AM
Selfless Healer is, to me, a perfect example of what a lot of the talent design should be. Very potent, limited in scope, and very optional. If Ret Paladins were in a very bad place for selecting their talents, and they really had problems affording the good ones and had to get stuck with Selfless Healer as a prereq or due to lack of other more useful filler, then I'd have some sympathy, but only really with the poor tree design, not with SH itself.
Now, I'll give an example of a real dog of a talent. Energetic Recovery. By adding energy generation to Recuperate, it basically turns something which ought to be a use-when-needed survival ability into a maintain-for-top-dps finisher. Of course, it doesn't generate enough energy get back the combo points you spent on it (you'll get back 3 or 4 of the 5), so it ultimately cuts down on the number of damaging finisher Subtlety Rogues will use, which works counter to their mastery. It will be a dps increase (the damage from the CP builders you can use the energy on will outweigh the damage lost - three Backstabs are worth more than 2 CP), but it's a poorly designed one.
It not only removes flexibility from the Sub tree (one of the worst designed in the game - overcrowded with very weak dps talents, there is *zero* flexibility to allow for utility talents), but also basically works counter to the finishers-first design of the spec. It also adds in the balance issue of Sub keeping Recuperate running constantly and thus having a large amount of extra self heals that other rogues won't get in their top-dps rotations. Thus, it's a bad talent. Contrast with Improved Recuperate in the Combat tree, which simply increases the healing and provides a damage-reduction to you for the duration. Improved Recuperate is well designed, like Selfless Healer - pleasant filler you can skip if you want, or take if you feel a use for it.
Ohnoto Sep 3rd 2010 9:14AM
Source for "Ghostcrawler -- Hunter dead zone in the beta" links to wow.com
Ohnoto Sep 3rd 2010 9:14AM
and "Ghostcrawler -- Warriors"
Jack Miles Sep 3rd 2010 9:20AM
Try
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26726032698&pageNo=2&sid=1
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?sid=1&topicId=26560867318&pageNo=7
Which is where I got linked to.
zubbiefish Sep 3rd 2010 9:33AM
"It's not the first time mentioning it, but the feedback from across all five supported European languages is usually very helpful and of a high quality."
I wonder if it's more helpful than the NA forums...
Quark1020 Sep 3rd 2010 12:13PM
Nah, I'm sure nerd rage is universal.
Dreamstorm Sep 3rd 2010 9:43AM
EU RESPRESENTIN' !
Cetha Sep 3rd 2010 10:40AM
"We're willing to do that to a limited extent (the TG vs. SMF Fury warrior for example, or the FFB mage)"...
Will we be seeing the return of the FFB mage come Cata!?!?
Covnam Sep 3rd 2010 5:38PM
Yeah, that's what I thought (and hoped) when I first read that, but unless there's some major change or addition to the trees, it isn't possible to get enough talents from the frost and fire tree to make a FFB spec with the new design. I've read that currently FFB is better for a main nuke for a Frost spec, but I'm sure that will be fixed as it doesn't make much sense for frostbolt not to be the primary spell for Frost.
Jez Sep 3rd 2010 11:01AM
EU Suggestions Forum in the Mo'fck'n HOUSE.
Also, Camo is sick... love it.
Hate hunters, though.
Trap, Trap, Trap, Parry, Parry, Parry, Deflect Deflect, Dodge Deflect, Disengage......
....... Readiness.
FUUUUU
Josin Sep 3rd 2010 11:08AM
OMG... Double Rain- er... post! ;D
(cutaia) Sep 3rd 2010 11:42AM
Haha...you've been enjoying the double rainbow recently, haven't you Josin?
muntyouup Sep 5th 2010 1:15AM
It's starting to look like a TRIPLE post! Oh my God oh my God!
dodgeballer2005 Sep 3rd 2010 12:07PM
"couldn't we just stick with minor/major glyphs, and just remove the prime glyphs entirely?"
WOW! I mean seriously, WoW! This guy is one of the biggest idiots I have seen! Primes are the new majors. That means he just wants the lesser glyphs and the ones which are only cosmetic! What a noob!
Noah Sep 3rd 2010 6:41PM
/facepalm
He meant revert to the old system. And if you were attempting to be facetious, you failed.
dacamper Sep 3rd 2010 12:11PM
When Ghostcrawler starts posting on EU forums (and thus reading them), then I'll believe the EU really has direct influence over the game. Who knows what filtering of feedback Blizz EU does and how much notice is taken of it.
Al Sep 3rd 2010 4:07PM
I've noticed a trend of the EU boards sometimes getting info first, so they're on the ball.
Must be nice.
Artificial Sep 3rd 2010 6:10PM
Seconding that; I usually end up in the fora after a Google search, and I end up in the European fora more often. They seem to be better maintained and more informative.
As for "filtering", this is usually a good thing. A great post is more likely to be noticed by the right people if there are people who's job it is to sift through the junk and pull out the gems. The paranoid complain that if the "right person" isn't reading the forum themselves, their points will never be heard by said person, but really, they're *less* likely to be heard if that person doesn't have that "filter" doing the job for them.
Sorcha Sep 7th 2010 3:44AM
Can't be denied that here in the EU we don't get the developer face-time that you get via Ghostcrawler in the US. And sometimes we find that annoying.