Scattered Shots: Camouflage
by Brian Wood 
Sep 6th 2010 at 1:00PM
Welcome to Scattered Shots, written by Frostheim of Warcraft Hunters Union and the Hunting Party Podcast. Each week, Frostheim uses logic and science (mixed with a few mugs of dwarven stout) to look deep into the hunter class. Got hunter questions? Feel free to email Frostheim.
The level cap in the Cataclysm beta has been raised up to level 85, which means that we finally get to have a look at our badass level 85 ability: Camouflage. While it's true that this is primarily a PvP ability, it does not in any way disappoint. It looks amazing. It works even more amazingly, granting us more than we had ever imagined based only on the description.
You can only enter Camouflage while out of combat. It lasts a minute and has a 1-minute cooldown. When you're standing still, it is stealth. When you're moving, it's sweet-looking awesomeness. You can target someone moving in Camouflage, but you cannot cast any spell at him. Camouflage makes you immune to ... just about everything. You can't be tracked, your nameplate doesn't show up, you aren't affected by AoE, fears, mass dispels. If you attack, you leave Camouflage. If you take damage -- say, from a DoT ticking -- you leave Camouflage. Everything else you're are safe from, as long as you aren't fighting.
The video gives a pretty good preview both of how Camouflage looks, and how the mechanics of it work. Enjoy!
[Update: Question: would a rogue be willing to give up Stealth -- and all its associated combos and benefits -- for Camouflage? If they answer is yes, then I'll agree that this is OP, otherwise nerf the rogue first.]
[2nd Update: Please keep personal attacks out of the comments! You can disagree with someone's point without insulting the person. Instead, stick to the point.]
Scattered Shots is dedicated to helping you learn everything it takes to be a hunter. See the Scattered Shots Resource Guide for a full listing of vital and entertaining hunter guides, including how to improve your heroic DPS, understand the impact of skill vs. gear, and getting started with Beast Mastery 101 and Marksman 101.
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 12)
RetPallyJil Sep 6th 2010 1:05PM
Well, now - isn't that something????
Sean Sep 6th 2010 1:25PM
This ability looks incredible! I'm glad I'm already planning on rolling a hunter when Cata drops. It'll be a sweet reward for hitting 85.
Eyhk Sep 6th 2010 1:30PM
Probably not finished yet. I highly doubt they would make an immune to everything ability. It would definitely be cool though if they left it as is. It would also be cool if they left unlimited stacking buffs on pallys but it just doesn't happen that way =/
wutsconflag Sep 6th 2010 1:52PM
@Frostheim:
I'm sure the answer to this is going to be a resounding "NO", but I had to ask anyway. Can you mount while in Camo, and if so, does it break the effect? Also, is Camo on the GCD?
Frostheim Sep 6th 2010 2:43PM
Mounting breaks camo : )
Artificial Sep 6th 2010 3:23PM
@Eyhk: "I highly doubt they would make an immune to everything ability." Given that they've already made multiple "immune to everything" abilities, why do you doubt they would make another? The only particularly notable thing about this one is that it lasts a full minute, whereas the others usually last 10 seconds or so...
Debesun Sep 6th 2010 3:28PM
@Eyhk
I may as well put it out there but here's a post from GC regarding Camouflage and how they intend it to act against hostile attacks.
Forum Poster: "It says that you will not take any ranged damage. Currently the term ranged damage includes Hunter shots and thrown weapons. Is the use of "ranged" in this iteration of Camouflage also including magic damage?"
GC: "Yes. The idea is you are only vulnerable to melee attacks or ranged AEs."
-Source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24261186675&postId=242602336760&sid=1#256
In my opinion, the current invulnerable-to-everything buff that is currently attached to Camouflage is just an unfinished mechanic that is yet to be completely implemented to make it able to tell the difference between the attacks that should, and shouldn't be breaking it. So at the moment, nothing breaks it. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they made it that when moving while in camo you're regarded as an unstealthed target for the purpose of pve aggro / targetting. To me, it currently seems like a unfinished ability until a future build is pushed out with a more polished version.
Hopefully people take this into mind before joining the whole 'CAMO = OP, CAMO > STEALTH' storm that's already going on below that unfinished abilities do tend to be quite over the top...
Frostheim Sep 6th 2010 3:42PM
@Debesun: You're referencing a quote from five months ago, during the class preview, probably before they even started to code Camouflage. Thus far just about everything that has been different from what they said then has stayed different.
I'm not saying you're wrong -- they could decide to do it that way -- but there's also no real reason to think that's true either. In fact, in the majority of cases, the abilities are far different than talked about in the class previews : )
Debesun Sep 6th 2010 4:22PM
@Frostheim
True with the part that abilities that are currently implemented have differed from what has been stated in the previews, but that has normally been done with prior documentation and reasoning behind such changes. They already documented the removal of the movement decrease and damage increase effect attacked to Camouflage in build 12803 (Before it was even available for use). So I do wonder why these rather significant differences were not docemented or mentioned beforehand.
A change from "It'll break on melee attacks or ranged AoE attacks" to "You are invulnerable to damage (and effects that would typically break stealth such as Flare) for the duration of Camouflage until either you cancel it, or the duration runs out. In which case, you can immediately reapply it as the buff duration and CD are equal" is a change in design that would normally be brought up. Especially when a change like the removal of the movement speed increase once paired with Time Warp (Mage lust / hero) was announced and discussed on the forums.
That and it just simply gives me the bitter taste of "WIP" when you can walk right in the face, eye poking distance of either a hostile player or PvE target and be safe from harm so long as you have plenty of time on your buff. And being able to pop Deterrence in Camouflage while you're already basically invulnerable doesn't seem right :P
We'll find out sooner or later if it's unintentional and requires a future build to be properly implemented or it's intentional and the design team has kept these changes quiet until now.
Frostheim Sep 6th 2010 4:36PM
Actually the changes are almost never, ever documented or told to us in any way. The ones we know about in advance are rare exceptions.
The change to camo that you noted was not something that Blizzard told us -- it's something that MMO-C found when they data-mined the files and saw the description changed. Just like we were never told in advance about volley being removed, scatter shot becoming baseline, cobra shot changing to boost serpent sting (also different than the preview), etc., we almost never know what's going to change or how things work until they are actually implemented and we can go check them out in-game (or via data-mining). This is the first chance we've actually had to check out camo in-game and see how it works.
Jack Spicer Sep 6th 2010 5:00PM
I totally expect to see elite mobs ignore camo when they are not already in combat.
Brien Sep 6th 2010 5:15PM
I find it pretty laughable that people honestly think this is going to be the end product for camo and are bothering to argue about it as if their argument will stave off the obvious nerfbat that will be twacking this thing shortly. I find it disappointing that wow.com bloggers actually think that this ability, on its face, seems "fair" to them. Wow.com bloggers usually have a much more honest and accurate notion of balance and fairness in this game than your average forum or wow.com commenter, but I've noticed that a lot of the fair and balanced aspect of assessing class changes seems to be disappearing around here the more that the class articles get divided up and given to more bloggers.
The likelihood that camo is intended to be another LOL INVULNERABLE ability is pretty much zero given many of Blizzard's past statements re: uncounterable invulnerabilty. Even if it maintains much of its LOL INVULNERABLE HAHAHA power, the liklihood it would be completely uncounterable is about zero too.
Blizzard specifically went to the trouble of creating things like mass dispel and shattering through because uncounterable invulnerability is stupid, regardless of whether the person using it can attack or not.
I'm also extremely skeptical that blizzard would go to the trouble of getting rid of FD-trapping to come 2 expansions later and create its more powerful brother, FD-camo. Anyone that thinks critically about this game, its development and its balance already knows this is not the final product because its grossly exploitable, forgiving the fact that its also grossly unfair.
Frostheim Sep 6th 2010 5:29PM
@Brien If you want to participate in the discussion, why not make an argument? Defend your point of view with logic and examples? Just saying "Anyone who disagrees with me is laughable and doesn't know what they're talking about and the quality has clearly gone downhill" isn't contributing meaningfully and isn't convincing anyone.
So try to convince us.
Many commenters are making arguments for why it is not OP -- comparing it to other abilities, comparing the strengths and weaknesses to other abilities. Join the discussion! Make a counter argument! Tell us that a rogue would rather have camo than stealth, or that a pally would rather have camo than bubble, and tell us why!
Point out examples of how the ability could be exploited! And address why that's different from other abilities that can be exploited in similar ways. Convince us of your point of view! Don't just insult us for disagreeing.
Regarding FD-trapping... yeah, they got rid of that by allowing us to drop traps while in combat, so we don't need to FD to trap anymore : )
pvewhore Sep 7th 2010 1:44AM
Personally, I don't think this spell is that OP. Sure my opinion may be bias (I'm a spriest so my DOTs effectively make Camo useless, but then I still think Bubble is OP and we've been dealing with that for years) but its still not completely game changing. Stealth mechanics already exist in game, each with a unique counter, and I can think of a few things MUCH more annoying than watching a hunter run to freedom (Nelf druids battle swift flight form anyone?)
Having said that if its used irresponsibly it will be nerfed. Blizzard has never liked it when people annoy their customers and have always provided us with a way to counter it. (For example, when people are stupid in chat, we can ignore them, and if it gets bad enough we can report them to a GM for a days worth of ban.) So if it reaches a point where theres a team of Night Elf Huntresses blocking the Org auction house,dancing and spewing retarded phrases like "for the alliance", Blizzard will give us a way to grind them into a fine paste.
jcompguy Sep 7th 2010 1:55AM
@Brien's comment
Come on people, his comment is the only possible reply to this article that makes any sense. Do you really think camo will be anything close to this OP in it's live state? Your article went beyond wishful thinking.
There are OBVIOUS problems with the current version in PvP, especially WSG. Do you honestly believe they will let hunters cheetah in camo right into the enemy flag room, and be completely invulnerable? Hunters aren't rogues. They do not NEED the first attack like rogues, so being invincible until you're ready to start the fight just isn't going to happen. Hunters also don't need stealth to survive since they have traps, deterrence, FD, stuns, disengage, etc. If FD + Camo = invincible was possible, hunters would have the best defense of any dps class in arena, and basically could not be killed. There would be no point in even trying to kill a hunter, you'd have to focus on someone else because they'd either deterrence, run, stun you, trap you, or become invincible forever.
Yes the ability looks cool, and I do agree that hunters should have some type of ability to hide or blend in to terrain. That's what real hunters do. But you of all people should know better than to think what you said in the video is intended, or will last for very long.
Zeknif Sokolniki Sep 7th 2010 2:53AM
I would rather retain stealth than to give it up for camouflage, and here's the biggest reason why... we are a melee class. If our enemy can see us, even with all the immunity in the world we lose the element of surprise which is our single biggest advantage, and we'll probably have to blow a sprint cooldown just to get to start the fight... this is particularly a big problem for Assassination and Combat Rogues. Second off, we don't have any damaging abilities that would qualify for the "Trap" Exception that camoflauge makes, all our damaging abilities trigger the auto-attack anyways which would break our stealth. Camo in it's current state simply is not beneficial for the Rogue's design because unlike hunters, we have to get close to our target and it wouldn't help at all if a player sees us coming from 15 yards away, mounts up and essentially kites us.
Now, why will this "Immune to everything" thing change? Because of Arenas. A player who can remain immune to everything indefinitely because the duration is equal to the cooldown? If he's last man standing, there is the potential that they'll grief the hell out of arena teams who legitimately won in the same way that the Rogues and Druids potential for doing the same thing caused Blizzard to put that truesight buff into the Arenas for.
Prances in Underpantss Sep 7th 2010 8:46AM
I have read a lot of the comments and I think a lot of people are overreacting about this ability, both the positive and the negative. Don't get me wrong, it seems to be an awesome ability that will provide a lot of good use in PvP and PvE. It probably won't be used very much in raids but in other PvE environments it could provide some use. I can't wait to try it out. But here's some arguments:
You can still be seen (slightly) and targeted (manually). So people will be waiting for it to wear off.
Once you come out of camouflage, you will most likely be attacked and dotted up before you can reapply it.
You cannot attack anything with the exception of laying traps, which can be pretty minor.
It can't be used while in combat.
It only lasts a minute. It's not like we will be staying in camouflage for an entire BG and just laying traps.
A hunter that doesn't do any damage isn't really that helpful, except for the traps. So most of our time will be spent out of camouflage, using our strongest attacks. The only time I see us using it (in PvP) is when we are waiting around, defending a flag/base, or heading into battle (although, on foot, we will be rather slow). A lot of people seem to think that we will just be able to use it in the middle of a battle to get out of damage, or that we will use it to run around people and taunt them. It's not going to be like that. We will be using it to lay some traps and stay out of sight (behind a bush or around a corner), and then surprise people by suddenly appearing and killing them.
Here's some questions I would like to see answered:
1. If we are in combat, can we Feign Death and then use Camouflage (as long as we have no DoTs ticking)?
2. Can we eat while in camouflage?
3. Do we still get the damage bonus with our first shot?
Zeknif Sokolniki Sep 7th 2010 9:35AM
Trap Launcher, Freezing Trap, Scattershot, FD Wyvern Sting, I think I can CC 2 or 3 campers long enough to recamo, with one of those CC's being usable without breaking Camo itself. Could you imagine a single Hunter against a double DPS composition in 2v2? Screw their ally, the hunter will just keep dropping the damaging traps with impunity until the opponents eventually die.
Tirrimas Sep 6th 2010 1:11PM
I can hear the PvP QQs starting up already.
Damn, it's good to be a Hunter.
Furlover Sep 6th 2010 1:19PM
Absolutely - it's ridiculously OP !