Patch 5.4 patch notes
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The latest patch 5.4 newsBreakfast Topic: Are children welcome in your guild?
by Martha Widra 
Sep 15th 2010 at 8:00AM
Children are so much fun and a joy to have around, right? Maybe that's true in real life (at least for a lot of people), but in a guild setting in World of Warcraft, children present some difficult situations. I've been the "guild mom" for two guilds with child members (one who is between the ages of 8 and 15), so I've had a lot of experience.
We all have seen children in a guild. Many beg or ask for gold. They want to be run through instances or helped to level. They ask silly questions. And their reading levels may not be high enough for them to follow the quest text. Guild chat may be filled with: "Can someone help me level?" "Can I have some gold?" "Are we there yet?" And everyone has to watch what is said in guild chat.
Helping children to become strong guild members requires a commitment of time from other members. Some guilds do not want to give that time, so they say "adults only." Other guilds welcome children and work through the problems. All this requires some planning, some commitment of time and lots of patience. The good news is that as time goes on, children mature, and they may become a core of solid members for the future who know how to pass on the lessons they learned to the next generation.
Are children welcomed and helped in your guild? Does your guild restrict membership to adults only? Are children allowed, but everyone hates it when they are online?
Filed under: Guilds, Breakfast Topics, Guest Posts
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 9)
bbrasky Sep 15th 2010 8:51AM
Right on - it couldn't be said any better than this.
Sadly, we see this same problem in a lot of aspects of this game. GS is a good example. While yes, it's true that certain raids require a minimum gear level, it seems just as silly to measure a player's value to the group soley based on their gearscore as it is to measure a player's maturity by their age only.
Unfortunately, I feel like most people just don't particularly want to invest the time in taking a chance on a younger player to find out if they're mature enough.
I used to be an officer in a guild that would accept anyone and give them a trial period. If within that trial period you could demonstrate maturity and some basic understanding of your class(s), you would then become a full member with raid spot opportunities. I guess with this sort of thing you still need to exercize some caution though. Ultimately things got too lax and that started causing some issues later on.
Kamshad Sep 19th 2010 6:22PM
As muagen said, I think that ageism is derivative from generalisations, themselves derived from the poorly behaved minority(?)
But, generalisations have to have some foundation, and I genuinely believe that much like in the real world, a cross-section of the male 12-16 age group would contain a much higher degree of immaturity/aggression that older age groups (presumably due to the phase of forming an individual identity that so many teenagers pass through clashing with an overarchingly anonymous environment, but that is a discussion for another day.)
I disagree with guilds having over-18 limits, but the discussion is not necessarily based around stupidity; rather, arrogance and immaturity. While many younger players are well behaved and mature (like you seemed to be), a degree of scepticism is necessary for guild masters trying to develop a cohesive team because the fact is a large proportion of younger players are simply immature, and the safe (and lazy) way is to have solely over-18 guilds, and that is an unavoidable fact in WoW. However, most guilds are entirely reasonable if you can speak intelligently and modestly, will bend limits to allow you in.
albanesp Sep 15th 2010 9:00AM
I disagree with a lot written here in this post and in the OP.
First, the average video game player is OVER age 18, so it is not the case that we are playing a children's game. WoW plot lines are quite mature, despite the cartoon-like graphics and not really appropriate for children.
Second, it is inappropriate for minors to socialize with adults without proper parental supervision. Unless they are playing with their parents, which I think is great, it should not be condoned.
Lastly, "mature" teens are the exception and not the rule. I've witnessed teens crying in vent over loot drops (crying!!!), talking endlessly, awkwardly flirting with female players, taking offense when given criticism and then setting off a boss encounter before dropping group.
For any new guild member/trial raider, it is always the case that you need to prove your ability to the rest of the guild. Unfortunately younger players have to prove their age isn't a liability as well.
As for positives, I think kids have more time to actually show up to raids, probably have better hand eye coordination than us older folks, and as Edeese pointed out in his post, won't be showing up wasted on raid night
Jack Miles Sep 15th 2010 9:13AM
Same here; though I'd have to admit I was never very good at the game back in Vanilla.
Alderkin Sep 15th 2010 9:24AM
"but simply tell a child of 15 that they are being annoying and politely ask them to stop and they are likely to shut up."
How well does that work for you on Trade or Barrens chat?
JustPlainJim Sep 15th 2010 9:46AM
I have to agree with you... provided the kid actually listens.
Like a lot of people on here, I was in an 18+ guild before. I'm all for crude humor now and again, but these guys were like the love child of trade chat and X-Box Live.
My new guild is full "mature adults" and one kid. We all got the warning to watch our language around the tyke (which I can agree with), and he raids with us... Unfortunately, he never shuts up. Ever. And it's about the most inane things.
And, unfortunately, the boy's mother was in the raid with us. So, telling him to cut the chatter during a fight led to the mother telling me to shut the hell up, in just as many words.
So, I guess my problem isn't with the kids, after all. it's with their parents.
Draol Sep 15th 2010 9:59AM
Yeah, sounds more like the mom needs to take a chill pill, if you weren't rude about asking him to be quiet. If you were, well...don't be.
That said, immaturity is not a result purely of children playing the game. I would dare say there are more immature adults then there are children!
Point in fact, I've been gaming online since I started middle school, across a few games. I've had friends ask me my age and be surprised that I'm 'only a kid' because of how I act.
And yet there are those who insist that I have to be over 18 to play with them because they don't want "a noob kiddy playing around". Sigh.
Kallix Sep 15th 2010 11:06AM
I have to disagree with the majority here. As a guild leader since before Wrath, I've never had an age limit for joining - people just needed to prove themselves mature. In cataclysm when we start recruiting again, I'll be enforcing an 18+ rule.
During the past year, I've had a lot of members come and go, but out of the 10+ 15 or under members we had join, only one is still in the guild, as one by one all of the others bitched about loot, stirred up drama, talked innanely when we told them not to, distracted our other raiders and generally weren't good players.
The fact that we still have a younger member in the guild means there are mature, younger players out there, but from my experience they are definately not the majority, and when I have to recruit again, I can't be bothered to take the risk. My guild chat is pretty mature, nothing akin to trade chat, but any young teens in the guild tended to make it worse, not force others to clean up their acts.
ithalaine Sep 15th 2010 12:30PM
im in this category and matureity is not the exception basicly no one i play with knows my age. the only reason teens get a bad rep is because the ones who moan and beg and stuff for obvious reasons are the ones who get noticed even though most teens are playin quietly
for instance one of my friends is in a major raiding guild and has never been critisised for moaning or anything like that and they only recently discovered that he was a teen. on the other hand ive known people for a while in game only where theyve been complete idiots and when theyve hinted at there age group people were astounded to find he was in his late 30s. also on the point of the guild with the "locker room" chat then youve naver seen a teenage school with out adults its hardly tea and biscuits polite.
clevins Sep 15th 2010 12:40PM
Aside from the bad apples argument, another issue is control over your own time. Both guilds I've been in are 18+ but will bend the rules for mature teens and, frankly, the maturity level hasn't been an issue - you DO need to chat with them a bit before inviting, but you should do that for any player.
The biggest issue we've seen is that teens don't control their time. If Mom or Dad comes in and says 'take out the garbage/do your homework, shut that off and go to sleep/it's dinner time' then the kid has to deal with that. Adults aren't perfect at this, esp adults with young kids who sometimes play when they should be paying attention to their kids... but they control their schedule. They can play for 3 hours at a shot and no one is going to tell them the garbage should go out or that they need to wash the dishes NOW (well, if they're married... *cough*). That doesn't matter when questing, but is a bigger deal when running 5 mans and raids.
BubblePriest Sep 15th 2010 1:44PM
Many guilds ask for their members to be over 18 not because of suspected immaturity, but simply because they don't have much in common with teenagers.
While progression raiding guilds may put a priority on playing ability and simply ask for a minimum level of maturity from their members, many smaller social guilds are pickier about their members' personalities. They want their members to be the sort of people who they would hang out with outside of the game. And the outside interests of even the most mature 13 year old are bound to be different than the interests of the most childish 35 year old.
I don't doubt that ageism exists in WoW, but there are entirely valid reasons to not allow children into one's guild that tend to be overlooked.
Rollo Sep 15th 2010 8:10AM
From the 18+ guilds I've been in, it seems like it's mostly a disclaimer to allow anything in chat. I found the guild chat in family guilds much more mature. :-)
Rai Sep 15th 2010 8:14AM
Our old guild leader had three kids: we had to learn to adapt.
However, we encouraged them to not be online after a certain point at night. That's when the jokes start.
Luke Sep 15th 2010 10:10AM
^ This.
Ours is a family and friends guild mostly. As such we're not a top progression guild by any means but the trade off is getting to play with people you enjoy spending time with. We don't have anyone under 16 right now, but even our younger players are only allowed in because we know the parents and the parents know the maturity required to be a member.
I don't think we would necessarily exclude younger players. As is we just keep private chat channels for the more or less adult humor. None of our players care for cesspool that is Trade Chat, but that doesn't mean random Bill Hicks references and irreverent humor aren't the norm.
I would support an adult only server however. Even if that would bring some of the asshats.
The only times we've had problems with younger players it was because they were constantly taking breaks to make iced tea and start some laundry. So strange right?
heh
MusedMoose Sep 15th 2010 8:14AM
While I don't know any ages, my guild definitely has kids in it, as the guild leader has a strict "no swearing" policy in guild chat. Some guildies even use "LMBO" instead of "LMAO". It's actually pretty nice; there's plenty of foul language in trade chat and all that, so guild chat being friendlier is a really nice touch.
SunGod228 Sep 15th 2010 9:02AM
You make a really good point about trade chat vs. guild chat.
The fact of the matter is Trade chat can be pretty rough. And for players that have guild chat that is equally bad well, that sucks.
Eric J Sep 15th 2010 8:14AM
In my guild, we don't have any sort of age requirements.
We do expect that people kinda keep it on the clean side.
Besides, if you want to get vulgar you can always take it to a party chat.
Nirva Sep 15th 2010 9:37AM
Or vent!
I've played since I was 12, I'm now 17. When I think back to some events in my gaming career, in my early teens, I'm pretty ashamed. I can recall some very immature things I said. I've now however been in my current guild for almost 1 and a half years and I think being in a guild with older people has helped me become more mature.
The guild does though have members' children in it who occasionally come to fun runs and log on during the day. People generally watch their language and chosen topics, but it doesn't ruin the chat. The forums are generally a place the young 'uns don't search so it, along with vent (or mumble these days) is a place others can talk about what they want in freedom while still getting to play with their children from time to time. The whole thing works really well and doesn't require being implemented by officers because everyone understands.
Bass Sep 15th 2010 10:36AM
Same in the guild I'm in, though we're mostly 20-30+ people, we have a few people, including myself, who are still minors, and the ones I know to be minors are actually quite mature, well, one of them is quite talkative over vent, but that isn't much of a problem.
Myself?, well, I might've done bad, immature things in the past, but I don't really do any of those anymore, also, a funny note, my guildies still won't believe I'm still so young, they say my voice is akin to that of a 25+ year old.
Also, we have a rule that bans really bad language before 9 P.M. :)
Bass.
Armerad Sep 15th 2010 8:15AM
I'm 15, 9/12hm 25m after retiring from raiding until catacalysm 2 months ago, and I have over 75k..I don't think THAT many nonchildren can say that.