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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsIs faction antagonism story-driven or player-driven?
by Matthew Rossi 
Sep 18th 2010 at 12:00PM
One of the things I've noticed in my time back-and-forthing between Alliance and Horde toons is that each faction seems to have many, many vocal partisans who believe the opposite faction to be filled to the brim with churls, knaves and scalawags. Perhaps even hooligans and ne'er-do-wells. You see it all the time in general chat: "Those ally fellows are nothing but mountebanks!" Or perhaps: "Horde? Nothing but disreputable scoundrels, bounders and cads!"
What I find interesting is how much of this factional divide is created by the game itself ... how much comes from quest lines and zone design and world events ... and how much is purely based on the players. It's true that over the past several expansions, we've seen a shift in the game itself from the days of the AQ gate event and the opening of the Dark Portal, when Horde and Alliance stood shoulder-to-shoulder against threats to Azeroth, to the present Wrath/Cataclysm direction when even Old Gods, Lich Kings and insane dragon aspects can't get the Horde and Alliance to cooperate.
Still, until fairly recently, I'd never really felt much of the infamous Horde/Alliance hatred from the game itself. Even the Wrathgate /Battle for Undercity and the Broken Front quests didn't come close to matching the intensity of a forum flame war or a really acrimonious Wintergrasp battle. Playing Horde back in the day, you couldn't help but notice the perception of superiority Horde players (including myself, at the time) felt over Alliance. But the story didn't really have much to do with it.
I found playing a worgen on the beta to be positively eye-opening in this regard. The story from beginning to end is about unchecked, unbounded Forsaken aggression against a people who had never fought them, never attacked them, never tried to invade Lordaeron or claim lands held by them. The people of Gilneas had gone out of their way to avoid the Forsaken, and it was Sylvanas (and behind her, Garrosh Hellscream) directly attacking a neutral nation purely out of naked lust for conquest and territorial acquisition. By the time you're done playing a worgen through the starting zones, you will be ready to put orc babies on spikes. It may be the first time I've ever felt the factional hatred entirely from the game instead of from other players.
Nowadays, it seems that the balance is pretty even. A great deal of the conflict between Horde and Alliance is set up in the story, but players still take the lead (the point of the spear, so to speak) by keeping said antagonism alive via ganking, world PvP and keeping BGs and zones like Wintergrasp/Tol Barad active. I'm curious to read what you think keeps factionalism in WoW active and if you view it as a positive or negative for the game.
While you don't need to have played the previous Warcraft games to enjoy World of Warcraft, a little history goes a long way toward making the game a lot more fun. Dig into even more of the lore and history behind the World of Warcraft in WoW Insider's Guide to Warcraft Lore.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Lore, Wrath of the Lich King, Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 9)
Rob Sep 18th 2010 12:27PM
I've never ever felt the faction antagonism. The game is extremely weak at enforcing it. My horde toons have done approximately 10 jillion quests for various alliance members. I find the fact that horde and alliance can't chat to just be an extremely weak barrier to keeping up the pretense of a faction war (yet of course, no problem talking to npc's of either side).
Luke Sep 18th 2010 1:43PM
Nods emphatically.
I for one think that faction loyalty is important for the game, but that doesn't mean that our characters shouldn't be able to learn other languages. The original game mechanics regarding this was specifically to prevent cheating.
This is because when the game launched there was no such thing as race changes, and you couldn't have characters of both factions on PvP servers. This was to prevent spies.
Anyway, now that this has all changed, there's no reason Blizzard couldn't implement "Linguistics" as some type of secondary profession.
Noyou Sep 18th 2010 2:42PM
No faction antagonism? Really? Back when you needed to be lvl 30 to get your first ground mount (ok it wasn't that long ago) I had a quest to take something to Forest Song in Ashenvale. I found out a few things that day. #1 there are horde NPC's that really want you dead. #2 These NPC's can all run faster than you can. #3 You don't need to actually attack them for you to flag. #4. Not much going on in Forest Song anyway :p - A few weeks later I learned how the opposing faction players can flag you by flagging and then getting in your AoE range. This one in particular wasn't too bright as he did this with 3 of us- even as noobish at the time as I was, he had no chance :) So to answer the question of the day: Both game and player driven. Although I believe it's perpetuated more by cheapness on both sides (AH farming, corpse camping, etc.). Some people are just more zealous than others.
Alanid Sep 18th 2010 3:04PM
@noyou Please getting your first mount at level 30 is nothing, it was hell when you had to be level 40 and were trying to quest through stv. Besides his point wasn't that all npc's love you long time, it was about the npc's that talk to you and give quests and stuff.
Noyou Sep 18th 2010 4:06PM
@ Alanid
You missed my point entirely. I was relating that to me, there very much was faction antagonizing early and often. I said back when you needed to be lvl 30 to get your mount to illustrate I was on foot (and even put that it wasn't that long ago) so instead of giving someone your e-attitude "Please" enlighten us with a story of how you think there is or isn't faction antagonism.
Imnick Sep 18th 2010 12:29PM
This attitude really annoys me on forums, where you will commonly see people of one faction complain that "People of are all kids!".
Not only is this nonsense, and kind of insulting to children, but also it only really makes me regard the POSTER as immature rather than the subject of their hatred.
Norwood Sep 18th 2010 12:30PM
For me, its story driven. I play on a PvE server, and never once flagged (at least not while sober) since '05. Ally fanboys' faction comments in /trade were silly & quickly became annoying. But Cata's progression of old world story lines changed this for me. Come November, my nelf will be ganking every horde in ashenvale when not raiding. You don't belong there. Kindly leave the pretty trees alone.
Jez Sep 18th 2010 12:33PM
Horde are bads. Fact.
Luke Sep 18th 2010 1:34PM
I can't believe I'm going to say this, however...
Comments like this are a natural extension of the subject matter. Let's not down-rank them just because we disagree.
Is Jez's comment adding to the conversation? Maybe, maybe not, but maybe (s)he's being sarcastic? Maybe (s)he's just kidding? Either way it's still relevant.
T.J. Sep 18th 2010 9:40PM
I have played bith factions over the years but have always been partial to Alliance. On the server I was on, the Horde are generally known for their PvP prowess while the Alliance tend to be more PvE oriented. This is where a lot of the animosity between the factions came from in vanilla WoW and BC. back then, Alliance were only great at AV in PvP, and the horde had only a couple good raiding guilds, so this sparked a little jealousy. Not to mention the horde were notorious for putting a low level toon flagged for PvP near one of those old PvP quest zones and having a few high level rogues lying in wait for the unsuspecting Alliance. Now that is changing, there is a definite push by blizzard to have this animosity enhanced. I would think it would be really bad on Role Play servers.
With Varian Wrynn's complete hatred of the Horde and Garrosh Hellscream's unchecked aggression and lust for conquest, I see more of a split coming. Looking at all the zone changes and the focus in a lot of them on the Alliance/Horde war, I forsee more people completely hating everything from the other faction simply because hours of grueling quests that involve getting beat upon by the other faction.
green_jerm Sep 18th 2010 12:39PM
I don't know much about it, but I would also think the forsaken would resent the worgen somewhat for their withdrawal from the earlier alliance, leaving the other humans to be ravaged by enemies, including the undead (though I did read it was Terenas' abuse of the alliance that led to this).
Tabasa Sep 18th 2010 1:19PM
Gilneas was never a particularly strong supporter of the Alliance to begin with.
If I recall correctly, Greymane pulled Gilneas from the Alliance in reaction to Terenes deciding to put the orcs into prisoner camps rather than killing them.
While the kingdom rivalry might be a factor in the Forsaken assault on Gilneas (having not played the beta, I couldn't tell you whether or not the game makes it one), the Forsaken have never really retained much of an identity in-game as people of Lordaeron, so I think it has less to do with that than other factors. The kingdom rivalry is probably a -much- bigger deal to Gilneas than it is to the Forsaken.
slythwolf Sep 18th 2010 6:31PM
You know, really, when you look at the reason Gilneas left the Alliance, it makes perfect sense for the Horde to mount an attack on them as soon as possible. "These people advocate a no-quarter-no-mercy policy toward us. They are dangerous to our continued existence and if we don't take them out now it may be too late."
I say this as a future worgen hunter main.
Tabasa Sep 19th 2010 1:50AM
@slythwolf - Yes and no. To start with, it's unlikely that even most of the Alliance was privy to the political back-and-forthing between the leadership that led to Gilneas leaving. The Horde probably don't have the slightest clue about what went on.
Also, Gilneas' recent activity (i.e. largely doing nothing and staying silent to the world in isolation) would likely cause it to be considered a pretty tame threat, if a threat at all. Which, when the Horde starts looking over the idea of aggressive expansion again, probably makes it seem like an easy target.
Regardless of the reason, it would appear the invasion of Gilneas more or less backfires on the Horde, since it takes a kingdom that was keeping pretty much to itself (and from the sound of things quite possible on the way to perishing on their own to the Worgen curse), and adds it's population to the Alliance, now incensed and eager to fight back.
Ashamel Sep 18th 2010 12:42PM
I have to say, my main is a Night Elf and I really enjoy the lore there. As a Night Elf, I abhore the trolls, due to an ancient racial rivalry. I dislike the orcs due to their deforestation and continual attempted invasions of our homes. Night Elves seem to generally stay back and play the defensive game when it comes to land expansion... they'll protect their forests and resources but you don't find them out there like the dwarves or humans trying to continually spread their boundaries. The Forsaken are a bunch of undead monstrosities that go against all that is good and wholesome in Azeroth!
To be honest though, I feel that Tauren and Night Elves should be working together. Two races were never more aligned in goals and such a Zen outlook on life. Think of it... they are the only 2 races (currently) that can consistently set aside their factional alliances to come to a truce over a greater goal (look at the Cenarion Circle). Though Night Elves have been the catalyst for many of the great events throughout history, both good and bad, they see that there are larger, more important goals than factional conflict.
Though I see Night Elves strongly opposing Garrosh in this coming expansion. Of all the races to be invested in this coming fight, I think that Night Elves have the most to lose. They are reeling from the 1-2 punch that's delivered in the breaking of the world and Garrosh taking such aggressive control over the horde.
TickleGremlin Sep 18th 2010 1:05PM
Tauren and night elves have been neighbours since ancient times, and night elves never helped nor even took contact to tauren while they were struggling in their desperate war against the centaur.
Jinx Sep 18th 2010 1:23PM
@TickleGremlin
That is not true. The Night Elves have made contact with the Tauren and even went so far as teaching them the druidic arts and including them in the Cenarion Circle at Moonglade.
I don't understand how these two races could be at war. I'm not even sure what the Tauren think of the incursion in Ashenvale as I've never played as Horde.
parakletos Sep 18th 2010 1:37PM
@ Ashamel Night Elves seem to generally stay back and play the defensive game when it comes to land expansion... they'll protect their forests and resources but you don't find them out there like the dwarves or humans trying to continually spread their boundaries.
Except for the 4 quests that Blood Elves have to fight various forms of Darnassian incursions into their land.
Ashamel Sep 18th 2010 1:48PM
While that's true parakletos, I did not consider that. But to me, that doesn't really even feel like something Tyrande would do. It feels more like the developers trying to tie down the history between Night Elves and Blood Elves. I could be wrong, mind you. I'm not one of these blow-hards who KNOW the truth, facts be damned.
But honestly, I know of no other major aggressive land grabs by the Night Elves. They did that in the younger years, but for the most part, it was my understanding that they took it upon themselves to protect the forrests and exist as peacefully as possible. Factor into this, they have their mortality to protect now. Night Elves just aren't as aggressive as they were in the past because they don't have an eternity waiting for them anymore (on this plain at least... whole other debate I don't want to get into on afterlife). Many elves are still reeling from the loss of immortality and trying to cope with it.
musicchan Sep 18th 2010 3:33PM
I'd like the point out that in the Blood Elf lands, they night elves weren't trying to take their lands, they were spying on the Blood Elves because they don't trust them. They've never trusted the highborne ever since what happened with Queen Azshara. After they "banished" the highborne, I imagine the Night Elves didn't think they would ever hear from them again. And then, suddenly, there they are, causing trouble.
Now, don't misunderstand where I'm coming from here. I love blood elves and night elves both. But from the Night Elf point of view, they saw their relatives suddenly show up again, still engaging in the same magical shenanigans they had been 10,000 years ago. It makes sense that they would spy on them. It wasn't RIGHT to spy on them, but it makes sense. There is a very deep-seated hatred between the two types of elves and since the Night Elves were so long-lived, there was no passing generations for them to forgive and forget.