Skip to Content
9-22-2010 @ 7:55PM
Effectively it's a reverse relationship to Thrall-Grommash:Doomhammer, simillar to Grommash in personality, leads the Horde in a conflicting time and attempts to make the right choices to estableshing it as something more then a tool of demons and Warlocks; He also takes as a protegé the son of his best friend, Durotan, after his death.Thrall, simillar to Durotan in personality, leads the Horde in a conflicting time and attempts tomake the right choices to estableshing it as something more then a tool of demons and Warlocks; He also takes as a protegé the son of his best friend, Grommash, after his death.
9-22-2010 @ 7:58PM
The core difference being, of course, that:Doomhammer follows the same logic as Grommash, tilted towards War, Conflict and Victory at all costs.Whereas:Thrall follows the approach of stoicism, thinking before acting and preferring to settle matters in diplomacy rather then needless violence.
9-22-2010 @ 9:13PM
True, though to not quite put Grommash and Doomhammer in the same camp as each other; Doomhammer didn't have any choice left when he ascended to power. It was victory or death. While resources are limited and times are tough with Cataclysm, Thrall to his credit has/had set up a world where diplomacy between the Horde and Alliance could actually be sort of civil before Grommash decided to piss all over foreign relations.It wasn't like diplomacy was on the table for Doomhammer since he couldn't just go, "Sorry humans about screwing up your kingdom, warlocks did it. We'll just go back to where we came from and you don't have to worry about us. Even though we're going to die by returning to where we came from."It's like a starving man and a wild animal. The Horde had to kill the Alliance at this point or be faced with starvation/mauling.
9-22-2010 @ 10:28PM
Sorry I'll never buy the whole, "we have no choice now but to wipe the humans out completely," thing. That is why he'll never be a character I'll respect but he's still ahead of Grom in my books.
9-22-2010 @ 10:29PM
There's always an option other than genocide. ALWAYS.
9-23-2010 @ 2:03AM
I'm kinda tired of these typical alliance self-righteous arguments.You can't judge medieval fantasy societies' actions in times of war by our peacetime modern real world standards.And sometimes there aren't any other options to genocide. Think World War II: What about Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
9-23-2010 @ 2:19AM
Good job the 'sef-righteous Alliance' didn't take the same attitude or no internment camps for you ! Just death.
9-23-2010 @ 3:18AM
@Dreyja: There are two extreme positions you can have regarding Doomhammer: You can have complete respect for him, or you can have no respect for him. Both of these positions are absurd. In truth, these is much to respect in him, and much to revile. No account of his story can do justice to him without noting both.
9-23-2010 @ 6:23AM
@EternautaExcuse me, but are you actually condoning the use of nuclear weapons against Japan? Just because that particular act of genocide ended the conflict, does not mean there wasn't any other way.
9-23-2010 @ 6:49AM
@Alliance members going "Horde is evhul and genocidal"- Alliance Interment Camps (Orc Slaves yay!);- Alliance Murdering truckloads of Forest Trolls because the High Elves (Who were invading the Troll homelands, btw) wanted a little peace and quiet in "their home";- Dalaran wizards know that their magic usage is attracting the Legion, instead of giving up magic, like they were advised to, they prefer to empower one human as a guardian to fight off the demons... effectively allowing for the eventual corruption of Medhiv and EVERYTHING demon-related to happen on Azeroth during and after the 2nd War;- Placing Garithos anywhere near a position of command (This one is added half-comically, but geez who had the bright idea of leaving this schmuck as a backup plan?);- Night Elves (though not traditionally Alliance) can be traced as being the origin of every disaster in Azeroth.Not to bash Alliance/condone Horde, but let's keep the "You is evil" arguments out of discussing the moral compasses of each faction/faction's hero. And the article states quite well why Doomhammer proceeded with genocide: "Given the choice between dying on a blasted, dead world corrupted by Gul'dan and his sycophants, or murdering every last man, woman and child in the Kingdom of Stormwind, he took the latter"Were there other options? Perhaps, but at the eyes of Doomhammer it was death to his people or death to Stormwind, many of us would probably have done the same.
9-23-2010 @ 7:20AM
@ZeliusActually, yes. Sadly, the dropping of the atomic bombs probably saved a lot of lives.The war in the Pacific was pretty terrible. There were a lot of casualties on both sides and the Japanese fought mercilessly, hanging on to every inch of land as long as they could. Even when entirely surrounded they often would fight until they were killed or captured, trying to inflict as much damage as they could.There was a land invasion of the Japanese mainland planned. The Japanese were low on men and materiel, so they were going to mobilize their entire population. The elderly, women, children, armed with bamboo stakes, to charge the American Army. The US Army's best estimates were over a million civilian deaths to establish a foothold. Not to take Japan, just to cement a landing.Instead of going through with that - the US used the atomic bombs, vaporizing entire cities in an instant. It was a wretched, horrible thing, but the Japanese had nothing to fight. There was no enemy to shoot or stab, just a plane carrying one bomb at a time. They could either surrender, or risk being systematically wiped off the face of the Earth, one city at a time, by an enemy they could not stop or strike back at. The Japanese were willing to fight to the last man, woman and child, but saw the utter futility in being exterminated from a distance.It was a dirty, terrible thing, but the dropping of those bombs likely saved a lot of lives.Even so, the atomic bombs did not result in the greatest loss of life. Read about the firebombing of Tokyo and other Japanese cities.
9-23-2010 @ 10:25AM
If you think that the US actions towards Japan in WW2 were genocide you really need to invest in a dictionary.
9-23-2010 @ 1:49PM
As Eisengel notes, the alternative to dropping the A-bombs on Japan was LITERAL genocide - as in, "the Japanese cease to exist as a race" - with similarly staggering casualties on the other side.The destruction wrought by the bombs was not that much greater than had already been inflicted on many, many cities with "conventional" weapons. It was the show of power (which still resonates in the popular imagination, decades later) involved in doing it with ONE bomb each. (It was also something of a bluff, in that the US didn't have any more bombs at the time - but of course, the Japanese didn't know that.)Yes, it's horrible. It's war. That's what we play at, with this game.
9-23-2010 @ 6:18PM
@ Artificial - Oh hey I totally agree. In fact, I respected the Doomhammer I met in, "Lord of the Clans." The trouble is, I read that one before I read, "The Rise of the Horde," or " Tides of Darkness." The Doomhammer of those books nauseated me because I'd formed a picture of him that fit Thrall's view of him, sadly. I don't revile him but he's no hero in my view. Yeah, genocide is genocide and to assume he had no other option at that point is just as simplistic. I doubt any of you will see this reply but I had to try anyhoo. :)There are a few characters I have a true loathing for, right now, the only one "alive," is Sylvanas. That doesn't mean that I don't have some sympathy for what happened to her. In fact, I think giving her a clean death at this point would be a mercy.So what I'm saying is that even if somone states a view with some passion it doesn't necisarrily mean their oppinion is neciarily shallow and without nuance. I have seen you say similar things about Alliance actions/characters so let's keep it in perspective here. /respect.The Japan correlation is completely off topic (well stated but doesn't speak to genocide), sorry. Doomie had no goal other than to COMPLETELY wipe the humans out as a species. That’s a HUGE difference from making the tough choice about how many lives to sacrifice for the greater good. "The only defensible war is a war of defense." - Chesterton
9-23-2010 @ 6:42PM
@ Eternauta, actually some of us are familiar with history, the good and the bad of it as well. I'm curious what you would have us measure our experience of the game by? War, in the real world, brings out the absolute worst in our species. It also brings out some of the best. Look at that same story of WWII and you’ll see people who risked everything to hide Jews, smuggle fallen soldiers and who stood up and said, THIS IS WRONG. Retrospect can be bias in both ways. How would you have someone interact with the story if they admire the people who went to prison because they said, NO, more than those that made the call to drop the bomb. Sure, lives were saved (still not an apt corollary IMH) but there is a place for the other kind of hero as well. Just sayin. Your argument has it’s own self-righteous tones. We are supposed to admire the butchers of history, all of them? Sorry, that doesnèt fly.
First time? A confirmation email will be sent to you after submitting.
Members enter your username and password.
Enter your AOL or AIM screenname and password.
Please keep your comments relevant to this blog entry. Email addresses are never displayed, but they are required to confirm your comments.
When you enter your name and email address, you'll be sent a link to confirm your comment, and a password. To leave another comment, just use that password.
To create a live link, simply type the URL (including http://) or email address and we will make it a live link for you. You can put up to 3 URLs in your comments. Line breaks and paragraphs are automatically converted — no need to use <p> or <br /> tags.