The Care and Feeding of Warriors: Heroics, protection spec and build 13033

The Care and Feeding of Warriors is about warriors, who hurl themselves into the fray, the very teeth of danger, armed with nothing more than the biggest weapons and armored with the absolutely heaviest armor we can find. Hey, we're not stupid -- we're just crazy.
Last week, I said that we'd see changes to protection. This week, we're seeing them. It's build 13033, also known (to those of us who care) as the protection warrior pass. Last week firmly started balancing fury's DPS, but this week is definitely protection's turn. Today, in fact, just hours before this patch went to the beta servers, I got done writing a long post talking about protection in the beta, what I saw as its strong points and its weak points.Every single one of the weak points was addressed in this build. Every single one. This is what you call serendipity. It also means I have to completely rewrite my column with not a lot of time to spare, so as you may understand, I am at once pleased to see things improved and irritated that I spent all that time writing a column that will never see the light of day. It should be noted that these changes are on the PTR, not live on the beta as yet. It's a little odd to see the PTR get updated first, but I'd expect the beta servers will see a new build soon as well.
Having been 85 for a week, as well as having transferred over two level 85 premades, I've been running around testing out various alternate specs and taking them into instances. Why did I do this? Because, as we have already established, I am certifiably insane. Even before this patch, protection stood out as the strongest of the warrior leveling specs, and now it should see increased power as a tanking class. Vengeance is amazing for a leveling protection warrior. It takes the greatest strength of the tanking classes -- the ability to soak up damage -- and turns it into offensive power.
Breaking down 13033
First, let's look at the changes themselves, as presented on MMO-Champion.
Arms
- Thunder Clap base damage has been increased by 50%.
Ghostcrawler - Re: Warriors 12984 You shouldn't be dependent on Blood and Thunder to generate enough AE damage. It's there mostly for those cases where you can't always keep reapplying an AE ability but want to keep threat. In other words, a warrior who skips the talent shouldn't feel like they can't AE tank at all. You shouldn't feel like you have to open with Rend every AE pull. A more typical scenario would be on a fight where you know you're going to be AE tanking for a long time, you use Rend after your initial Thunder Clap or Shockwave. (Likewise, Thunder Clap buffing Shockwave shouldn't mean you never, ever touch Shockwave until the buff is applied.)
Thunder Clap's damage may just be too low.
Thunder Clap's damage may just be too low.
It was, and now it's been increased. Before these changes, maybe Blood and Thunder and Thunderstruck shouldn't have meant that, but in practice, I found that my AoE moves were not doing a heck of a lot unless I got that buff stacked up -- and man, that's a long time to wait. Three TCs with the cooldown before Shockwave hits for anything decent is ridiculously long. TC itself did not have that lauded "snap threat" quality. This is a very positive quality of life change for protection.
Fury
- Pummel is now usable in Battle and Berserker Stance (formerly, just Berserker).
- Enrage now has a 3/6/9% chance to proc, down from 4/8/12%.
- Battle Trance now affects your next special attack that costs more than 5 rage.
Protection
- Defensive Stance now increases threat generated by 100%, up from 45%.
- Thunderstruck now also increases the damage of Rend.
- Incite "These guaranteed criticals cannot re-trigger the Incite effect."
The Defensive Stance change incorporates the inconsistent threat warriors have been seeing on the PTR and beta. To quote myself: "Some abilities, including AoE Threat moves, seem undertuned. Thunder Clap in particular does not seem to hit very hard at all. Shockwave seems to underperform unless you get the buff from Thunderstruck stacked up. Cleave and even Improved Revenge seem like they might have had an error in their threat calculation, and Blood and Thunder doesn't and isn't designed to fix all AoE problems. (It is a nice talent, though, with possibly the best name ever.)"
I was seeing some really strange threat behavior when tanking heroics this week: mobs running right through Thunder Clap, mobs ignoring a really hefty Revenge or Shield Slam, mobs stunned by a Shockwave and then ignoring me as soon as they came out of it. It seems likely that the separate threat modifiers from various abilities have simply been removed and folded into Defensive Stance, and that in some cases, those modifiers had been removed beforehand, leading to inconsistent threat. At any rate, this change, combined with the Thunder Clap and Thunderstruck changes, will hopefully address the inconsistencies I and other tanks have been seeing.
But let's talk for a moment not about the new talent changes but about what you'll be using them for -- namely, tanking in heroic dungeons. Heroics came out this week, as well.
Heroics are exactly that
Have you gotten out of the habit of using Demoralizing Shout or cooldowns to reduce incoming damage when tanking heroics? Get back into those habits. If DPS players decide to go all out on every pull before you've had a chance to establish threat, welcome back to letting them die, because they are not going to be able to fall back on, "It's OK, I'll just burn it down before it reaches me." Yes, DPS players, you have 80k health now in those level 85 blues. It will not save you.
I watched an ogre mob from the first pull inside Deadmines hit an elemental shaman for 66k with one hit. I admit it, I could have taunted it off. It was Sacco, though, so I figured I'd just watch. Seriously, though, when the difference in 85 blues between tanks and DPS is a mere 20k or so health, you have to realize that you're going to need to get back into the habit of actively reducing how much damage these things can do to you. Trinkets with coodowns? Use them. Last Stand, Shield Wall, Enraged Regeneration? Use them. One of the reasons I love Heavy Repercussions so much is that it makes your necessary defensive use of Shield Block add some offensive oomph. Make no mistake, you will need to figure out which mobs hit the hardest and use Shield Block carefully to keep them from crushing your face.
This is also why I think it might be a good idea to take the attack speed debuff off of Thunder Clap and make it part of Demoralizing Shout instead. There are times where you absolutely need to use TC to get those mobs to swing more slowly, and having it break CC is just so frustrating; it's like being asked if you'd prefer to die because the big mobs beat your face in or because you broke a sheep while trying to maneuver around CCed mobs. Being able to apply those debuffs is vital.
If you are a long-time tank, you'll adapt to it. It's basically somewhat of a return to the original/BC model in which you actually had to CC certain mobs because they simply did too much damage (either to yourself or because they stood at range and nuked someone down super-lickety-split) or would otherwise run amok. Thankfully, you should have more tools to deal with those situations than you did back then. If you came up during Wrath, however, you may be in for a surprise at just how much face-rocking these instances have in store for you. Someone seems to have informed them that you are a microphone, and they intend to be not just the Vandals but indeed also the Ostrogoths, Visigoths and maybe even the Heruli. It definitely takes some adjustment, but keep at it; after a while, you'll grow accustomed to the slower, more thoughtful, much more harrowing pace of pulling slowly and watching 60 percent of your health drop in 2 seconds.
None of the changes to talents we're seeing here will make the need to play defensively for a tank any less crucial. But they should help with threat, which is good.
Filed under: Warrior, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors, Cataclysm
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
Matthew Rossi Sep 24th 2010 4:08PM
I'd considering wearing the fury gear with a shield and 1h weapon in prot spec for a level or so. Hyjal and Vashj'ir gear is on par with ICC10, and by Deepholm you'll be dropping gear for ilevel 300+ blues.
Boobah Sep 24th 2010 4:17PM
I think that a lot of tanks are going to be incredibly wary of the LFG tool, at least initially, and with good reason. DPS (and to be fair, tanks) accustomed to Wrath's AoE of DOOOM! are going to cause a whole lot of wipes for the poor saps signing up for the Dungeon Finder. Add in the nigh-anonymous nature of it (the only reason I know I've ever met the same character in more than one DF group is from watching the Dungeon Finder achievements tick up) and it'll be hard for... difficult... players to be sidelined.
At any rate, it'll certainly help foster some sense of community, at least at first; players will resort to their guilds and trade (or maybe even LFG!) to form groups. As the expansion goes on, the better gear available and more experience with the new model of dungeoneering will both effectively nerf the content and make those running it more able to fit into their role in the group, making the Dungeon Finder less of a crapshoot.
MysticalOS Sep 24th 2010 3:41PM
Finally my suggestion was taken to heart. One of biggest things i always complained about in tank forums was dps warrior threat, and not because of their damage, but because of all the abilities themselves having a "high threat" attribute to them, such as the fury warrior who spams heroic strike every white swing, which was a "high threat" ability being used by a dps. i always complained that dps warriors doing less dps than that mage or warlock, would pull so much more threat, it was a design defect in the whole "high threat" moves design of warriors. if they have infact removed those modifiers from abilities and put it into defensive stance instead, then it will be most welcomed change to not just prot warriors, but all tanks in general that were just tired of the fury warrior tanking half of the trash in ICC dispite best efforts.
Grimlii Sep 24th 2010 3:43PM
i think we could look forward to changing our talent spec completely dependant on the weapon we have, one good weapon 2h= arms 2 2h move to fury or 2 good 1h fury build no titans. now as long as tank remember to pull the group away from the cc i can ww without breaking cc. great sign of an old tank.
Aaron Sep 24th 2010 3:53PM
I'm trying so hard to wait for Cata to level up a warrior. This column keeps making the wait so much more difficult. ;-) I feel like a little kid waiting for Winter's End.
jies Sep 24th 2010 4:37PM
I feel the same way. These articles really make me want to roll a warrior but i know i should probably wait till cata lol. Although rossi would probably tell us to roll one now and then just to get more warriors into the world :P
Boobah Sep 24th 2010 4:06PM
From the article: "TS's increasing Rend damage is probably aimed at helping protection warriors using Rend as part of their Blood and Thunder ability, so that it won't be overwritten by arms warriors using Improved Rend"
This makes no sense to me; Rend is a DoT, and so far as I'm aware the only way for a someone else to overwrite your DoT is if they manage to push it out over the debuff cap, which these days is so high that even a 40-man raid can't realistically hit it.
Redrum Sep 24th 2010 4:07PM
Ok, ok I give up. It's settled, I'm making another warrior, and he will be a Worgen.
Wulfkin Sep 24th 2010 4:21PM
Its excellent news to hear that Prot is actually working out well as a levelling spec. I would love to level my Goblin Warrior all the way to 85 as Prot; this would provide a really thorough knowledge of the spec, rather than going up as Fury or something and then having to seriously retool upon max level.
Here's hoping this situation makes it into the live game!
mothbitten1 Sep 24th 2010 6:47PM
Actually, I've been leveling a warrior in live as prot from the beginning (I'm now at 73) and it is great for leveling. With heirlooms I can easily take on 5-9 mobs at a time. So if you are waiting for cat to make leveling a warrior easy, it already is.
Wulfkin Sep 24th 2010 7:25PM
Thanks mothbitten1, that's good to know. I won't be using heirlooms, but still sounds like its not so much of a problem. I look forward to levelling my warrior then! *rubs hands together and cackles*
Rude Hero Sep 24th 2010 4:28PM
As a warrior, I've always been a tank, so I'm on shaky ground with this- will dps warriors bring any cc to the table in these new heroics that will (presumably) require it?
I'm sure most groups will have someone to pick up the slack, but I'd hate for people to feel like warriors aren't able to contribute in that field.
(cutaia) Sep 24th 2010 4:29PM
Hmm...that was kind of an odd way of starting that sentence, considering you didn't have a "SECOND" point to make.
Sir Broose Sep 24th 2010 4:44PM
"It was Sacco, though, so I figured I'd just watch."
I rarely literally laugh out loud, but this was one of those times.
I was going to just stand in the back, here and smile and nod with the rest of the seasoned warriors and pretend to be stoked about the challenge of the new tanking challenges, but the more I hear, the harder it is to look confident. Okay, I'll admit it. I'm a feeling a little nervous about tanking trash and boss ads. I'm kind of looking forward to the challenge of managing CDs and abilities on single target boss fights, because those had really gotten pretty boring. But since I didn't dual-spec and learn to tank until Wrath, all this talk about how much harder Cata mulit-mob pulls will be, has me sweating. I thought AOE tanking in Wrath was stressful (sometimes). Fury is my first love, and I'm looking forward to that, but this tanking thing...I hate failures to be my fault, and I have to admit, this expression on my face is a bit of a forced smile.
Luke Sep 24th 2010 10:40PM
It was only stressful because people forgot how to group. Because numbers and killing things became more important than actual play.
I responded to a forum post not long ago asking if people actually enjoy healing. Well I do, but I also enjoy tanking, and some DPS. I think the following will be even more true when Cataclysm is released.
"Mobs die all the time. So do party members. Rarely is the occasion that someone's DPS saved the group, and in that rare situation it's kinda cool. However nothing compares to the satisfaction of orchestrating a group encounter and pulling off that amazing group save, preventing a wipe.
Healers have way more decisions to make per encounter than tanks or dps. But that isn't to say that every role isn't important. It's just as a healer your little decisions have more impact on the outcome of a fight than other classes.
A good Rogue is going to put out amazing single target dps.
A great Rogue is the one that's stunning, silencing and interrupting at the right time, making the Healer's job easier.
A good Warrior is going to pull just the right amount of mobs, at just the right speed.
A great Warrior is going to watch for stragglers, LOS ranged, position mobs for the dps, and pop defensive cooldowns at the right times so that the healer isn't healing through everything.
A good Priest is going to keep you alive.
A great Priest is going to manage their mana, manage the dps mana, dispel, remove curse, pop cooldowns, fear ward, keep out of range of silences, AND keep you alive after the Hunters pet just aggroed extra mobs."
Of course now I think it's fair to say Tanks and DPS will have just as many decisions to make.
This makes me happy. The current "burn it down while sharpening your epeen with recount" model is getting old.
jtrain Sep 24th 2010 4:46PM
Maybe I'm confused, but I swore I read comments by blues a while back that stated they wanted to get away from the huge yo-yo effect of tank health at the level cap. They wanted more steady damage that made healers think more about which heal to cast, and not be as twitchy because a tank can go from 100% to dead in just a few GCDs.
"you'll grow accustomed to the slower, more thoughtful, much more harrowing pace of pulling slowly and watching 60 percent of your health drop in 2 seconds."
Doesn't the current state of heroics fly in the face of that goal?
jbodar Sep 24th 2010 5:54PM
I have to throw my "WTF?!" in as well. What was the point of nerfing heals then? Does this mean that the health increase for DPS was solely to balance PVP tank specs? It doesn't matter if DPS have 80K hp if you can still get 2-shot by a heroic mob. In fact, it just strains the healer even more if DPS pull aggro, because it takes even longer to heal them from the initial hit. That translates to more stress for healers and tanks. I really can't help but think that LFD is just going to suck mightily.
Troglodyte Sep 24th 2010 6:25PM
Here's the deal. You've got to keep in mind that the nerfs to healing and tanking were to balance the scaling of healing and tanking. Initially, things are going to be very, very difficult- simply because of gear. We will not have the gear to take these instances at their intended difficulty levels. When we get to Exalted with the rep factions, get some epics, get the high-end enchants and gems we need, the difficulty will come down some.
The difficulty is that essentially, we're trying to do the normals and heroics half naked- no DBM, no enchants, no EJ reccomendations for specs and rotations, no epics.... you understand what I mean?
Look at it this way: when it's been on live for 3 months, we'll be exalted with all the factions, we'll have half epics, and gems and enchants. For a "out of my ass" numbers comparison:
Now:
Healer mana:40,000
Average DPS:15,000
Tank Health:100,000
Later:
Helaer Mana:50,000
Average DPS:20,000
Tank Health:130,000
Just as a hypothetical. The numbers might be and probably are insanely off, but the point is we'll be significantly stronger when we've had a chance to grab epics from rep, and enchants, etc.
Right now we're all like that one moron in a dungeon who has full quest blues with no gems or enchants, and whines when he does 1.2k DPS in a wrath dungeon.
Imagine full groups composed of people doing the equivalent of 1.2k DPS now, and the tank doing 600 DPS trying to down heroics.
Be patient- it'll be much, much easier on live, and you'll be thankful for the healer mana nerf when you're in T13 fighting Deathwing, and he takes 5-7 seconds to kill a well-geared tank if he doesn't get a heal, rather than taking 1.5-3 seconds to kill him if he doesn't get a heal.
Natsumi Sep 24th 2010 4:47PM
Especially as he wasn't the first post lol
Onebaddude Sep 24th 2010 5:30PM
Anyone who hit wrath heroics in leveling blue's, will remember that they didn't just steam roll wrath heroics. Sure some people were in sunwell gear and roflstomped them, but that wasn't the norm. I'm sure that when the second cataclysm raid tier is released, we will all be steam rolling these heroics as well. Plus we will all know the fights and strays by then, which in of itself is more than half the issue. Till then there will be fail pugs a plenty to tank for.