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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsLichborne: Unholy and the state of the Cataclysm beta talent trees
by Daniel Whitcomb 
Sep 28th 2010 at 4:00PM
With this week's Lichborne, I was hoping to have run a few heroic Cataclysm dungeons so I could report back to you on how death knights play through them -- but alas, it was not to be, as my beta client refuses to log in to the game without crashing. Luckily, there are plenty of things to discuss apart from that. This week, I'd like to discuss our talent trees as they currently are in the beta and where things are headed for us as the release date draws nearer.
Unholy: The first finished Cataclysm talent tree?
Unholy's been getting a lot of love lately. We got a nice, pumped-up Ghoul, a replacement for Necrosis that also wiped out Runic Empowerment, and the latest change, an addition to Unholy Presence of a global cooldown reduction of 0.5 seconds. Now that we've had some time to digest, absorb and test all of this, we're forced to come to one conclusion: We may finally have a death knight tree that looks pretty much finished and fun.
For most of the Cataclysm beta, there have been three major problems with the unholy tree. First, we were GCD-capped. The whole point of the rune system change was to provide us more breathing room, and instead, it kept us locked into a rotation that was (if possible) even tighter than live version. Second, we strayed far too far into dual-wielding territory. Between talents like Sudden Doom and Necrosis, among other things, dual wielding was just plain pulling ahead of two-handed weapon damage. Of course, some death knights welcomed this -- but not all, by far (I may be biased here, as I tend to be a die-hard two-handed weapon unholy death knight when I have my choice). In addition, Blizzard made it clear it wanted unholy to be exclusively for two-handed weapons. Third, Runic Empowerment just made our rotation random and hard to assess. For a tree that's generally known for a solid, predictable rotation, this got a little bit confusing and frustrating for unholy death knights used to a certain playstyle.
That's where Runic Corruption comes in. Runic Corruption replaces Necrosis. Due to the higher auto-attack damage of dual wielding, Necrosis was a huge factor in dual wielding's damage supremacy, since it added extra shadow damage to said auto-attack damage. With Necrosis nowhere in sight, suddenly dual wielding isn't so hot anymore, and in fact, preliminary number crunching suggests that the removal of Necrosis may by itself have re-established the dominance of two-handed weapons, at least at current gear levels. Now, mind you, we're not out of the woods yet. There's still a chance that Sudden Doom could tip the scales. Still, for the first time since beta started, two-handed weapon diehards can breathe easier.
Runic Corruption also ended up saving the day for the Runic Empowerment issue. Since it replaces Runic Empowerment's rune refresh proc with a quick burst of faster rune regeneration, it removes the randomness from our rotation, replacing it with a quick burst of refreshment that speeds up our rotation without disrupting it. Of course, the big problem here is that between that and the fact that it makes Death Coil cheaper, it also exacerbates our GCD issues.
Luckily, that's where the latest change comes in. As of a recent beta build, Unholy Presence will knock our global cooldown down by 0.5 seconds. That 0.5 seconds allows us to use our abilities faster. That means more opportunities to fire off Sudden Doom procs or drain our runic power pool, more opportunities to churn out strikes, and so on. Right now, preliminary math and preliminary dummy tests on the beta and PTR would suggest that this more or less fixes the GCD issue, even with Runic Corruption.
So what does that mean? Does it mean unholy is perfect? I'd say it's not quite there, but it's good enough. That is, it'll be a good, solid tree coming into Cataclysm (assuming proper numbers balancing), and it has a lot of varied and fun mechanics, with the last few nagging issues not being deal breakers. But as for those nagging issues, I break them down like this. First, we still have Virulence, which is a completely boring ability that feels like it should possibly just be passive. Second, there is still that weird hanging blood rune when (or if) you apply diseases with Plague Strike and Icy Touch. Luckily, we should be able to mostly avoid that by using Outbreak and Pestilence, but in cases where Outbreak is on cooldown and Pestilence can't be used because it would break crowd control, this may get a little annoying. Third, Sudden Doom still has the potential to push dual wielding back over the top and should probably be changed to a proc-per-minute mechanic to prevent this.
The follies of frost, the bad times of blood
Of course, even beyond those little niggling things, there's one other problem that won't go away so easily. Blood and frost are still death knight trees, and they still need work. Frost, for example, still needs a solution to its GCD woes. Thanks to the massive amount of runic power the spec generates, especially with two-handed weapons, it's nearly as bad as unholy was before the presence change. If frost is going to use Frost Presence, that probably should change somehow. Blood, in the meantime, mostly needs less reliance on the RNG. Making Runic Strike independent of dodges or parries would help here, as would making the various tanking cooldowns either free or costing Runic Power in order to free up runes. It would also be helpful if the confusion between Heart Strike and Death Strike could be cleared up as well (namely, that Blood Rites promotes the use of Heart Strike, while Blood Shield promotes the use of Death Strike).
Still, my guess is that we still have at least another two months or so in the development cycle, so they have plenty of time to tweak stuff. Right now, it's important to note that even as we have problems, there is forward movement being made. We have at least one solid tree. Now we just need to tighten up the other two.
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
Boobah Sep 28th 2010 7:14PM
Oh, they all work. Well, most of them work; Arms, for example, is replacing Execute in their non-execute phase rotation with an ability that they won't get until 81, but aside from that sort of thing they'll work.
On the other hand, don't expect it to be balanced. Some specs and classes are likely to just plain be overpowered and others in pretty bad shape at 80; the numbers just won't line up.
Shadow priests may end up short of mana because they won't be able to pick up Evangelism/Archangel; on the other hand, ridiculously high crit rates will keep the Shadowfiend cooldown extra low. Arcane mages may end up with higher relative damage at 80 than they'll see at 85, because Fire and Frost will get all sorts of bonuses for (Frost)fire orb. Paladin AoE will be low, because they can't pick up Inquisition or Holy Radiance.
None of this should break the class, though. Especially with the 30% buff in ICC; if they take that out, it will be because raid groups on the PTR (not the beta, mind) are demolishing the place with more ease than they are on live. Everybody not in plate (except, possibly, bears) will be more survivable, too, (more stamina, more armor) and the healing changes won't really be felt until we're into Cataclysm content.
Shiro_Shishi Sep 28th 2010 6:39PM
I never really knew when to Death Strike or Heart Strike.
I still don't. I just use them whenever the CD is over.
Darky Sep 28th 2010 7:07PM
Heart Strike = Threat
Death Strike = Survivability
Zaet Sep 28th 2010 6:49PM
I dont like the way the trees are going, they are boring. you only have 1 actualy usefull build, not ot metion that either unholy or frost dps trees must also spec in blood for any useful talents
NoCS its useless if u go for MotFW, then u must take IR (a some kind of useless pve talent), and 3 points (up from 2) in RPM its a waste and boring. So the 1° tier of frost its rather useless, kind of useless or boring and a mug for 2hand wepons.
Anhilation is a mandatory and OaPH its the other-not-so useless pvp tanlent from the rest of 2° tier.
Then the tree begins to take some flavor, not so much for CotG, if one generates to much runic pawoer thats its a waste or a GCD problem to dump it maybe its not worth it.
If you dont take CotG then u have to to take every talent (exept) ToT to get HB.
In unholy theres nothing usefull in reach exept from epidemic, the u must go to blood for BA, butchery and BCB to make some more dps and runic power.
So 2H frost is boring, DW its kind of less waste in pvp but still numb.
I like frost in live, its options for changing bits here and there but catas frost its monotonus.
I think devs are spending too much time in unholy (as always) leaving frost to feed the rats in the garbage can (yet again).
So here are some ideas, hope someone likes them:
-Move BA to frost
-lower runic corruption to 2° unholy tree (to avoid the wack-a-mole thing)
-move BCB back to unholy, maybe in 1° tier fuse back together EW and BB
-Make CotG a passive
-Among other things
Just a to put it out there
Hahahaha Sep 28th 2010 7:10PM
They banned you from posting on the official forums, didn't they?
While I agree frost tree needs some work the way you put your ideas forward sounds like you don't like something and so it's gotta change. Blizzard has stated that people will need to spend some points in utility talents to complete their 31 points in a tree so like it or not you're gonna spend a few points that will in no way increase your dps. The first two tiers in frost are the ones that need immediate attention as this is the only tree that allows both DW and 2H. And frost generates crap loads of runic power so taking runic power mastery * 3 in tier 1 is absolutely essential contrary to what you said.
Darky Sep 28th 2010 7:14PM
I think we've been spoiled in wrath with all our variations. Ret pallies only get 1 spec choice in 1 tree that is viable for raiding, wheras we get 3 spec choices and multiple choices in each tree for dps. This is simply too many; in all honesty I would prefer the Cata trees as they are than what we have now (as they are easier to balance and make the yoyo effect we had in wrath less likely). It is simply unreasonable to expect Blizzard to provide more than 3* choices for dps, not many classes get as much choice as we do.
*frost 1 hander
frost 2 hander
unholy
Profano Sep 28th 2010 6:52PM
One thing I have not seen mentioned is that Death Coils Healing has been buffed and that it still adds the buff to your Ghoul if its used to heal. So now we don't have to worry about it dying off and our DPS taking a dive if we heal.
It would be a great idea to write a heal ghoul macro/ target last target. My Death Coils are healing for Over 12k on the ptr in my current gear.
Boobah Sep 28th 2010 7:21PM
#showtoolip
/cast [target=pet, exists] Death Coil; Death Coil
If your pet is alive, it'll shoot a Death Coil at it. If it's dead, you Death Coil your target. It doesn't change your target at all.
Gestopft Sep 28th 2010 8:15PM
Nice to hear how things are shaping up.
The one place I disagree with your assessment is where you say it would be helpful to clean up the confusion between death strike and heart strike. This discrepancy is part of what I'm most looking forward to about blood tanking because it requires an active decision on the part of the player. You have to look at/think about how much damage your healer(s) is having to deal with currently, see how you are on threat etc, and decide whether to go for threat (esp against multiple targets) or survival based on the current situation. Dynamic and exciting!
Zaet Sep 28th 2010 9:10PM
@ Hahahaha
No one baned me from nowhere.
and what I ment for RPM its that now in live its 2 ponint for 30 extra RP in beta its 3 points for 30 RP. Its a mug.
@Darky
Variations are fun. Diversity is fun, its far more better to have multiple ways to the same goal than having all of us following the same line.
And 4 classes are full dpsersand all others (exept palas and priest)
will have 2 trees for dps.
Currently im a Frostshadow DK and im love it, in current beta any form of frost-shadow shadow-frost its just non productive
Nashir Sep 29th 2010 5:55AM
Daniel
Re the 'hanging blood rune', a thought occurred to me (as I'm sure it has to others). Perhaps Blizzard intend Unholy DKs to subspec into blood and pick up Scarlet Fever (inflict extra disease reducing physical damage by 10%, duration 30 seconds, via blood boil).
Your rotation would therefore use this hanging blood rune at the start on a blood boil to apply Scarlet Fever, which would increase the damage of Scourge Strike. Simples!
Or am I missing something?
MikeB Sep 29th 2010 8:33AM
If they didn't want other trees dual wielding, why didn't they just remove it as a general skill and give it to DKs that choose the Frost tree like they did with Shaman that choose Enhancement? Seems like that would be a lot easier than having to rework the unholy talents like they did to make it less viable to dual wield.
VegetaPrime Sep 29th 2010 9:24AM
*sigh*
If it works out that Both DW and 2H unholy are both viable and pretty close, why not just let it be? I just don't understand Blizzard's beef with DKs choosing to DW in other trees. In fact, i don't really understand Blizz's beef with thinking out of the box or when they decide not to have a beef with it. (Bitching now because DW UH DKs are doing well, but not bitching when everyone switched to the UH Oblit spec a while back..I mean, they only half assed trying to fix that and admitted they were ok with people deciding to forgo SS for oblit if they had to).
Last time it came up, someone said it was about competition for weapon drops..Except that it really doesn't make sense. Right now, the only people that will want the strength based, slow one handers will be Frost DKs and Fury Warriors...and...Wow, they can actually choose to go 2H in their tree instead of DW. Allowing a third spec that *might* want them isn't that much of a big deal. If you look at who all will want 2H weapons, its actually a good thing to allow for weapon variety.
Maybe it goes back to the lolLore reason that people bring up. "DKs should only use big Rune Blades cause that's how they were introduced to us!!!"
Using that reasoning lets say:
DK's can only use maces, cause, well, that's not a blade!
Frost is the only tanking tree, amiright??
Im sorry, you can only roll a Human Death knight.See, the original DKs were orc souls placed into the bodies of dead human knights...Sorry, your stuck with your stuck with that hair-lip for all eternity.
Or maybe its that weird selfishness thing where you only want things your way. You know, where if your class is doing bad, you want them to nerf the classes beating you. See, I want to be able to dual wield AND play as Unholy, because I like the feel and aesthetic of DW. I'd like to be competitive with it. However, I don't want people that like the 2H style to lose what they enjoy, and I certainly don't want them to be nerfed just to make me feel better. Even the writer of the article says he's biased for 2H and hoped UH DW would get taken out..I mean..come on dude, If we can both play the way we like, why try to mess with that?
There's no good reason not to allow Unholy to DW, period.
VegetaPrime Sep 29th 2010 9:26AM
*DK's can only use maces, cause, well, that's not a blade!*
Sorry, meant to say:
"DK's can't use maces...
KPB Sep 29th 2010 11:10AM
Really the simplest answer is that they don't have to worry about balancing it. If they let it continue to be viable and then change something later breaking it people will scream for them to fix it. Or if it doesn't scale well and falls behind they will complain about that. Etc.