Flexible raid locks in patch 4.0.1

- You are no longer locked to the raid upon zoning in, but to a specific boss kill.
- You are no longer locked to a specific raid size or group.
- Heroics have greater restrictions placed on them.
- All Wrath raids will use this system once Cataclysm releases.
- All Cataclysm raids will use this system.
- This only applies to raids and not to normal or heroic dungeons.
Almost six months ago we announced that Cataclysm raids were being redesigned to make both raid sizes the same difficulty, drop the same quality of loot, and exist in the same lockout. This evolution in raid philosophy is built on the belief that the size of your raiding group should be a choice based solely on what's more fun and enjoyable for you, and that you should not have to complete the same raiding content twice in a week to maximize your character's progression. These systems are the culmination of a great deal of design and player feedback from the last few years. With the release of the 4.0.1 patch, the new Flexible Raid Lock system will debut in Icecrown Citadel and The Ruby Sanctum.
With the Flexible Raid Lock system, instead of being locked to a specific raid size or raid group, each character will have the opportunity to defeat each raid encounter once a week. You could kill Lord Marrowgar and Lady Deathwhisper with a 10-player raid on Wednesday, join a 25-player raid to kill Festergut and Rotface on Thursday, and then lead a completely new 10-player raid to kill The Lich King on Friday. Every raid has a list of encounters associated with the zone. For example, Icecrown Citadel has twelve encounters. After you defeat Lord Marrowgar, you can open up your character's raid information dialog and see the list of encounters in Icecrown Citadel with Marrowgar marked as defeated. You may no longer fight Lord Marrowgar with any raid size or difficulty until the weekly raid reset for your region occurs.
Another key change is that if you join someone else's raid in progress, you are no longer locked to that raid after merely zoning in. Your raid status will only change when a boss is defeated, at which point it will be updated to reflect the state of the instance in which you are currently participating. So, let's say you have killed the first four bosses of Icecrown Citadel, and you then join a raid that has defeated the first four encounters, as well as Festergut and Rotface. The dialog that displays upon entering Icecrown Citadel will show that the raid has defeated 6 of 12 encounters. If you help them defeat Professor Putricide, then you would be marked as having defeated not only Professor Putricide for the week, but also Festergut and Rotface. If instead after joining the raid you then proceeded to wipe ten times to Professor Putricide, you could leave the raid with only the first four bosses marked as completed.
To help communicate to players which bosses are dead in the raid leader's raid, there is new functionality to link in chat a list of the encounters the raid has defeated. So before you join a raid, you can see what they've already defeated. If a raid leader advertises in chat that she needs another healer for an 8/12 Icecrown Citadel run, you can see precisely which bosses are still available to fight. If you were only looking for that one item from Queen Lana'thel that never drops for you and this raid already defeated her, you will know not to join that raid.
Let's look at another example of the Flexible Raid Lock system. A guild schedules three nights for 25-player Icecrown Citadel raiding on Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday. On Wednesday, the raid defeats Lord Marrowgar, Lady Deathwhisper, Icecrown Gunship Battle, and Saurfang. On Thursday, five people cancel their raid attendance due to real life emergencies. The raid leader knows that if he cancels Thursday raiding, there's little chance they'll have enough time on Saturday to defeat the other eight bosses in Icecrown Citadel. So he splits the remaining 20 Thursday raiders into two 10-player raids. Each new raid enters Icecrown Citadel and defeats Rotface, Festergut, Blood Council, and Valithria Dreamwalker. The next Saturday with all 25 players online, they reform as a 25-player raid and enter Icecrown Citadel once more. Only Professor Putricide, Queen Lana'thel, Sindragosa, and The Lich King remain. After a tough fight, the Lich King falls and everybody celebrates. Without the Flexible Raid Lock system the entire raid probably would have missed out on a night of raiding, and likely would not have reached the Lich King.
While players can freely move between raids of different sizes in normal difficulty, there are some additional rules for Heroic difficulty. If a 10- or 25-player raid defeats a boss on Heroic difficulty, then those players may now only raid additional Heroic encounters with that specific raid. If your Heroic 25-player raid defeats the first four bosses of Icecrown Citadel on Heroic, then they may not split up into two 10-player raids and continue to fight in Heroic difficulty. You may also not join someone else's raid if they have defeated a Heroic encounter.
But let's say you are a member of a Heroic raid in Icecrown Citadel, and after killing Lord Marrowgar on Heroic you have Internet connection issues that prevent you from raiding for two nights. During those two nights, the rest of the raid kills everything. Without the Flexible Raid Lock system, you would be done with raiding Icecrown Citadel for the week. Ouch. With the Flexible Raid Lock system, you can join someone else's raid as long as they are doing Normal difficulty. This would at least give you the opportunity to earn your Justice Points for the week. If this raid attempted to switch to Heroic difficulty for Icecrown Gunship Battle with you in the raid, the raid leader would receive an error message stating that she cannot change to Heroic, because someone in the raid (i.e., you) is already locked to a different Heroic instance.
All of the new Cataclysm raids will feature the Flexible Raid Lock and Dynamic Difficulty systems, and when the Cataclysm occurs the other Wrath of the Lich King raids will also have these features. It's important to note that this system doesn't affect Heroic dungeons, they will work as they always have. We look forward to feedback for this new system after 4.0.1 is released. As a reminder, Icecrown Citadel and The Ruby Sanctum are the only two raids that support the Flexible Raid Lock until the Cataclysm occurs.
With the Flexible Raid Lock system, instead of being locked to a specific raid size or raid group, each character will have the opportunity to defeat each raid encounter once a week. You could kill Lord Marrowgar and Lady Deathwhisper with a 10-player raid on Wednesday, join a 25-player raid to kill Festergut and Rotface on Thursday, and then lead a completely new 10-player raid to kill The Lich King on Friday. Every raid has a list of encounters associated with the zone. For example, Icecrown Citadel has twelve encounters. After you defeat Lord Marrowgar, you can open up your character's raid information dialog and see the list of encounters in Icecrown Citadel with Marrowgar marked as defeated. You may no longer fight Lord Marrowgar with any raid size or difficulty until the weekly raid reset for your region occurs.
Another key change is that if you join someone else's raid in progress, you are no longer locked to that raid after merely zoning in. Your raid status will only change when a boss is defeated, at which point it will be updated to reflect the state of the instance in which you are currently participating. So, let's say you have killed the first four bosses of Icecrown Citadel, and you then join a raid that has defeated the first four encounters, as well as Festergut and Rotface. The dialog that displays upon entering Icecrown Citadel will show that the raid has defeated 6 of 12 encounters. If you help them defeat Professor Putricide, then you would be marked as having defeated not only Professor Putricide for the week, but also Festergut and Rotface. If instead after joining the raid you then proceeded to wipe ten times to Professor Putricide, you could leave the raid with only the first four bosses marked as completed.
To help communicate to players which bosses are dead in the raid leader's raid, there is new functionality to link in chat a list of the encounters the raid has defeated. So before you join a raid, you can see what they've already defeated. If a raid leader advertises in chat that she needs another healer for an 8/12 Icecrown Citadel run, you can see precisely which bosses are still available to fight. If you were only looking for that one item from Queen Lana'thel that never drops for you and this raid already defeated her, you will know not to join that raid.
Let's look at another example of the Flexible Raid Lock system. A guild schedules three nights for 25-player Icecrown Citadel raiding on Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday. On Wednesday, the raid defeats Lord Marrowgar, Lady Deathwhisper, Icecrown Gunship Battle, and Saurfang. On Thursday, five people cancel their raid attendance due to real life emergencies. The raid leader knows that if he cancels Thursday raiding, there's little chance they'll have enough time on Saturday to defeat the other eight bosses in Icecrown Citadel. So he splits the remaining 20 Thursday raiders into two 10-player raids. Each new raid enters Icecrown Citadel and defeats Rotface, Festergut, Blood Council, and Valithria Dreamwalker. The next Saturday with all 25 players online, they reform as a 25-player raid and enter Icecrown Citadel once more. Only Professor Putricide, Queen Lana'thel, Sindragosa, and The Lich King remain. After a tough fight, the Lich King falls and everybody celebrates. Without the Flexible Raid Lock system the entire raid probably would have missed out on a night of raiding, and likely would not have reached the Lich King.
While players can freely move between raids of different sizes in normal difficulty, there are some additional rules for Heroic difficulty. If a 10- or 25-player raid defeats a boss on Heroic difficulty, then those players may now only raid additional Heroic encounters with that specific raid. If your Heroic 25-player raid defeats the first four bosses of Icecrown Citadel on Heroic, then they may not split up into two 10-player raids and continue to fight in Heroic difficulty. You may also not join someone else's raid if they have defeated a Heroic encounter.
But let's say you are a member of a Heroic raid in Icecrown Citadel, and after killing Lord Marrowgar on Heroic you have Internet connection issues that prevent you from raiding for two nights. During those two nights, the rest of the raid kills everything. Without the Flexible Raid Lock system, you would be done with raiding Icecrown Citadel for the week. Ouch. With the Flexible Raid Lock system, you can join someone else's raid as long as they are doing Normal difficulty. This would at least give you the opportunity to earn your Justice Points for the week. If this raid attempted to switch to Heroic difficulty for Icecrown Gunship Battle with you in the raid, the raid leader would receive an error message stating that she cannot change to Heroic, because someone in the raid (i.e., you) is already locked to a different Heroic instance.
All of the new Cataclysm raids will feature the Flexible Raid Lock and Dynamic Difficulty systems, and when the Cataclysm occurs the other Wrath of the Lich King raids will also have these features. It's important to note that this system doesn't affect Heroic dungeons, they will work as they always have. We look forward to feedback for this new system after 4.0.1 is released. As a reminder, Icecrown Citadel and The Ruby Sanctum are the only two raids that support the Flexible Raid Lock until the Cataclysm occurs.
Filed under: News items






Reader Comments (Page 5 of 9)
Winter Oct 1st 2010 2:59PM
I also think it's a good idea overall. But speaking as a sometimes-raid-leader, one of THE worst parts of raiding is corralling up replacements when someone drops out. Even when I'm not RL, having everyone waiting (with a /lie or /dance or going AFK to feed the dog) while new people are solicited and checked out is one of the most aggravating and mind-numbing parts of raiding.
If we really do have a plethora of people ready and willing to join up, this won't be too terrible. If it happens after every boss, though... ouch. Color me cautiously optimistic.
Andromyda Oct 1st 2010 3:12PM
You could hold loot until a specified time/boss. You have two hours to trade it. As long as you tell people up front, this should help with the issue you are describing. I have done this with pug raids for a while. It at least guarantees that people will stick around or not be rewarded.
Anye Oct 1st 2010 5:35PM
This is definitely a concern and, I'd say, a high probability of occurring frequently. However, I'm willing to bet they will beef up the Raid Browser to reflect these changes, making it much easier to pull in new players between fights.
At any rate, I fear this will make pugs all the more volatile... It might actually help pugs, but I think it will become a frustrating experience for some players (myself among them). So I'll be looking forward to building a solid 10-man raid/guild come Cataclysm.
Srslyyeswai Oct 7th 2010 12:09PM
Wow, I have to say, as someone that's fairly new to a high pop server, this happens a ton already. Putting together a pug 10 man can take over an hour, with people dropping from the raid before it gets even started. One wipe, another drops. Didn't get the loot they wanted, drop.
I do think that the change does have upsides. I'm generally happy about the change... but you point out a huge side effect that I hadn't considered. It's going to be a pain :(
boltimore Oct 1st 2010 12:53PM
I like this a lot!
Can't wait to play Cat!
Nyold Oct 1st 2010 12:53PM
A question: how will they enforce that someone who's defeated a boss can't fight against that boss?
For example: if I just killed Rotface and 1 person disconnects, and in the meanwhile we can clear the trash to Festergut with 24 people no problem. But say I'm advertising LF healer for Festergut, and someone applies and gets an invite. But then she has defeated Festergut (so she might be lying or she forgets). Technically she shouldn't get a chance to fight Festergut twice.
How will this be enforced in game? Will she be unable to zone in? How does the game "know" we're attempting Festergut next while we're still clearing trash? If she does zone in, how does the rule get enforced? Will Festergut be not aggroable or not visible until she's removed from the raid?
Qz Oct 1st 2010 1:01PM
Sounds like she won't be able to zone in; she will zone into her old instance with Fester down. You can only zone into raids that have killed more things, not less.
Beldoro Oct 1st 2010 1:40PM
Not sure on that - you assuming that there is a linear progression path through an instance. What about the situation where a person has done Blood Wing but not Plague wing?
Perhaps it will be as simple as porting someone out of the instance when the boss is engaged - thats simple to do and the game mechanics are already in (eg. port to entrance when you log in/out during a raid)
Dimmak Oct 1st 2010 12:55PM
ok,
What about this scenario?
I defeat through putricide. Another Raid calls me in for blood queen. Putricide is already dead for me but not for the raid leader, what happens?
Kallix Oct 1st 2010 1:29PM
You won't be able to enter their raid unless they also kill Putricide (you would probably zone in to your exisiting save rather than theirs). You can never join a raid that hasn't downed bosses that you have, regardless of difficulty, because then you'd be able to do them again.
Don Oct 1st 2010 12:56PM
Absolutely horrible, especially the way the heroic restrictions work. Not happy, hope they change this, it definitely punishes the way a lot of people like to play.
Lloren Oct 1st 2010 12:56PM
Sounds cool for the future, but kind of sucks for ICC. What will this do to drake achieves?? I only have 3 more for my 10 man drake and about 6 or 7 for the 25 man. My guild only does 25 man raids and we're planning to start drake achieves next week since we finally cleared 11/12 hard modes. If 4.0.1 drops before I get my 10 man drake, this will pretty much screw me out of it if I understand it correctly.
Kaeleb Oct 4th 2010 12:51PM
I'm believe I'm reading this the same way you are, and have similar concerns. With my guild, I'm currently running 10s and 25s each week with different goals. 10s group is focusing on drake achievements/Bane of the Fallen King, while 25s is still trying to get everyone we can their 25 LK kill, and working on finishing up Shadowmourne quests for some people, etc. Looks like we're no longer going to be able to pursue both, at least not separately as we have been doing.
I was prepared for this change come Cataclysm, but I imagine there are many in similar circumstances who will have to adjust how they go about working on their current goals.
Kallix Oct 1st 2010 1:32PM
I believe the seperate 10 and 25 man lockouts will still exist for ICC, its only the cataclysm raids that will lock you out of one and not the other. You should still be able to run both versions each week until cataclysm hits, although I may be wrong, it wasn't made that clear.
Faith Trust Oct 1st 2010 1:58PM
It was made clear
Bashiok said
"this new system after 4.0.1 is released. As a reminder, Icecrown Citadel and The Ruby Sanctum are the only two raids that support the Flexible Raid Lock until the Cataclysm occurs."
4.0.1 is before Cata BTW
Eirik Oct 1st 2010 3:54PM
I'm willing to bet that the nature of Naxx and Ulduar are precisely the reason the Flexible Lock System are not being implemented below the ICC level. One of the earlier commenters had it: you could do the Plague Quarter of Naxx, then get into a group doing the Spider Quarter. ... at which point if you're saved to the Spider raid, you aren't to the plague raid.
I'm puzzled, though. ToC is strictly linear, and should pose no problem for putting it under the Flexible Raid Lockout. And Ruby sanctum is particularly NOT linear, in that there are two bosses you can tackle independently first thing.
Maybe, for ToC, it's the T9 armor token rewards and the 25 man chest at the end?
kidzel2001 Oct 1st 2010 12:57PM
What about the gear that drops?
What about the raid achievements?
Bane of the Fallen, Light of Dawn?
Invincible?
10man vs. 25man difficulty?
I'm currently in the middle of my Shadowmourne quests, can these now be completed on 10 man difficulty? Will the shards drop off 10 man bosses as well?
ChrisV Oct 1st 2010 1:04PM
I dont like it and the reason why is this:
I raid 10 man with my guild 3 nights a week and on the other nights i go and Pug 25.
But now this stops me doing this so as 10 and 25 share the same lockout we will all get less badges/points as can only do the raid once a week now instead of twice a week (1 for 10man and 1 for 25man)
MikeLive Oct 1st 2010 1:07PM
That would be a valid point if vendors didn't charge a cost based on the amount of badges (Justice Points in 4.0.1) you can get per week.
mark Oct 1st 2010 1:53PM
and since ICC will still be 2 seperate ones (i think) youll still be able to do this
also - i know a lot of guilds that run both - and the cataclysm plan is to alternate now we'll have several smaller raids
week1 - 10 man raid A - 25 man raid B
week 2 - 10 man raid B - 25 man raid A
if your guild only runs 10's just get them to alternate raids each week and pug the other 25?