I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation. How do you think that would go, exactly!?

-Meridian- calls forth as witnesses Tirion Fordring, all the repair and armor vendors from Light's Hammer and Overlord Saurfang.

Garrosh was chilling in the lobby.

"The Horde loves Garrosh."

Bull@^*%

@ Ruz

No, the Horde DOES love Garrosh....so much, in fact, we offer the guided tour right to his throne room for any and all Alliance raids.

"Unto Elder Crone Magatha of the Grimtotem,
Acting Warchief of the Horde, Garrosh Hellscream
Sends his most sincere wishes for a slow and painful death."

What's not to love?

"My paladin and 9 of my guildies would like to have a word about these claims..."

Tirion Fordring would like to have a word with your paladin about these claims. (But for him you'd all be undead servants of the LK, along with everyone else in both the Alliance and Horde)

@Zheo
"No, the Horde DOES love Garrosh....so much, in fact, we offer the guided tour right to his throne room for any and all Alliance raids."

Don't forget that it's free of charge, and you get a free commemorable Garrosh head!

A stuffed plushie one, of course. Not the actual one. Really. I swear.
(Crosses fingers insidiously)

Wow so Garrosh doesn't even notice poison dripping off his own axe before the fight? That's just plain stupid...

So it really is his fault Cairne is dead, because he is so unobservant and bloodthirsty that he can't see when someone has obviously tampered with his weapon... Also the fact that it's obvious that the Grimtotems want to take over and have for a long time so trusting Magatha to do anything is stupid as well... Also the fact that he challenged Cairne to the death instead of just to the surrender... He would have lost and it been a fair fight and we would have had a real warchief instead of a loud-mouthed psycho warmonger...

They're REALLY trying to make Garrosh likable, what with making Magatha and Sylvanas the bigger villains here, but the fact remains that if he had not upped the ante on the duel or had he refused, Carine would not have died. It was his rashness and hotheadedness that caused Carine's death and I for one hope that the severity of these repercussions serendipitously make him start thinking before he acts or speaks.

(Why yes, I -am- a tauren lover and I mourn the death of my favorite faction leader.)

@Zheo

"No, the Horde DOES love Garrosh....so much, in fact, we offer the guided tour right to his throne room for any and all Alliance raids."

As a soldier you protect the position and not the person on it. Every horde should protect their Warchief, whoever's on the throne at that moment. Settle your personal vendetta at your personal convenience, if an enemy attacks you protect your "Throne".

@Scorchhellfire, @Snuzzle

Horde loves (loved?) Garrosh because he was a "hotheaded, act before think after" kinda guy. Everyone loves such a guy, don't they? Just like how you love Cairne right now. His actions were rash, irrational, unreasoned and without any base of authenticity. He acted. Just like Garrosh used to.
Honor combat, apart from the physical combat, also involves the act of "staring down" your opponent. And I believe that's what Garrosh was trying to achieve.
"Garrosh can't believe it. He makes a gambit"
"Cairne instantly agrees. Again, Garrosh can't believe it."
It takes a lot of courage to say NO. Garrosh was never that brave. I am not justifying Garrosh's decision of accepting the duel, but that's generally how one would respond if they were challenged.

@hahahaha (love typing that name)

I strongly disagree with your statement about Cairne. "His actions were rash, irrational, unreasoned and without any base of authenticity."

Cairne disliked Garrosh as soon as he met him in Northrend, but he held his tounge.
Then, Garrosh (by all appearances) ordered the destruction of an entire night elf village. This went against orders and threatened the Horde's tenuous peace with the Alliance. It was also highly unethical. Cairne still took no action other than sharing his concerns with Thrall.
Then, a very reliable source (Hamuul Runetotem) returns to Cairne with reports of Horde soldiers slaughtering a large group of peaceful druids. If Horde forces are attacking someone, the war hero/ruler of the people was almost certainly the one giving the orders.

Cairne challenges Garrosh, the orc that (by all appearances) was a mass murderer of innocent people who was going to be the end of the Horde, to a duel. Even then, Cairne doesn't intend to kill Garrosh, but dethrone him. It was Garrosh who, even if it was accidental, changed it from a duel for leadership into a duel to the death.

Was Cairne really out of line? VERY reliable sources told him that Thrall had been replaced by a Hitler figure (lol Godwin), and Cairne was trying to correct the mistake. That hardly seems "rash, irrational, unreasoned and without any base of authenticity" to me.

@Hahahaha

As a soldier you protect the position and not the person on it. Every horde should protect their Warchief, whoever's on the throne at that moment. Settle your personal vendetta at your personal convenience, if an enemy attacks you protect your "Throne".

Ok, Then I challenge Garrosh on Mak'gora. If I win, I promise I will give mantle of leadership to Saurfang Sr. and in send Garrosh back to Northerend so he can singlehandedly take care of Lich King.
That way we will always have Warchief worth defending, otherwise it is just free tour.

@ Zheo
Hey me and 9 of my guildies would like to have a word with both you and Garrosh (and Tirion cause all he did was get ice-blocked) about these claims you're making :P

Thrall appoints Garrosh as acting warchief. How much ever you oppose this decision of making Garrosh acting warchief, when Thrall suggested to be his advisor the most rational (I believe it's perfectly rational) thing to do would be to accept it.

Even if it absolutely seems like horde orcs (not cultist orcs) are behind those attacks, there does not seem like a direct link to Garrosh. Even if it were the case that Garrosh's personal bodyguards attacked elves and hamuul, when he denies those allegations you try to dig deep. Let him atleast provide his side of defense. Deciding that he is guilty based on situational evidence is rash.

Garrosh has always been a hothead, there was no doubt that he would accept the challenge. Cairne is, although, a seasoned leader. He should know better. Would it have been so hard to decline Garrosh's challenge of "duel to death" providing a reason like "I do not wish to kill you, just defeat you and claim the throne for the sake of our people." That wouldn't mean he was gonna come out of the duel alive (what with poisoned gorehowl and all) but accepting such a challenge is insane. Whoever wins in "duel to death", horde would lose one leader.

And the most important bit that made me wonder if Cairne was in his right mind: he hadn't appointed any second in command, or atleast didn't inform him about what he was gonna do. Even if you are absolutely sure you are gonna win, you always appoint a second in command. All those taurens wouldn't have died if his second in command knew about this duel and took measures to sieze control as soon as Cairne died. Leadership is more than just about right or wrong, it's about responsibility.

@Astalnar

As I said, settle your personal issues at your personal convenience. When alliance is in our town going for our warchief we do not "offer the guided tour right to his throne room ", we DEFEND. There is a difference between out-throwing a "tyrant" and being a traitor.

@Hahahaha

lets be clear. garrosh is best known for being known as a crazy jerkwad. Horde were a little put off with him in Northrend, but he was a military advisor that didnt go (terribly) crazy and bring the infrastructure down. Blizz gets alarmed that the new character theyre putting in is severely disliked for such things as: booting the trolls out of Orgrimmar, starting all out war against the Alliance, performed a power grab while Thrall was away twiddling his thumbs, and killing Cairne who is beloved by many a player. Book comes out and now all of a sudden these allegations were either mistake or "didnt happen" to soothe outright rage at the character, which noone buys. Second, just because you hate an NPC in the game does not mean that you are now a traitor. If anything wanting to kill Garrosh is the norm, and having a laugh who brought basically alot of bad changes into play getting slaughtered in a FICTIONAL GAME (where honor and duty to faction are mercurial at best) seems perfectly sane to me. Take solace in that he respawns if it truly irks you.

@Snuzzle: You know nothing about orcs, clearly. Refuse an honorary challenge? Might as well commit ritual suicide, because he'd be utterly disgracing himself.

Secondly, even if Garrosh hadn't stepped it up to the traditional non-pussified version of the mak'gora (an attempt to get Cairne to back down), his axe still would have been poisoned by Magatha and his non-fatal attack would still have become fatal ones.

Bottom line is, Cairne was the one who challenged Garrosh. He knew full well that he could be killed. He assumed that Garrosh was responsible for an attack he didn't order. Frankly, in this situation, Cairne was the hot-headed one.


@ScorchHellfire: In real life, poison doesn't make weapons glow green and drip, like rogue poisons in game. Most poisons are clear and applied in a thin coating. If poisoned weapons were so obvious, so many wouldn't have been used successfully in reality.

@ScorchHellfire

Clearly, Garrosh has been having problems with his buff tracking addon since the patch.

Remember, we do not exist in the books...

While the players may not like Garrosh, the NPCs like him. The NPC's are characters in the book.

Though I wouldn't exactly say that the Horde loves him. I'd say the Orcs love him. The Tauren show him respect, but some like him and some dont. The Trolls think he's too hotheaded as leader, but they don't necessarily hate him. The Forsaken just don't care either way, they have their own business to attend to. The Blood Elves are too busy getting high off the sunwell to get involved.