Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsBlizzCon 2010: Classic dungeon changes in patch 4.1
by Allison Robert 
Oct 22nd 2010 at 5:23PM
- They're going to keep creating wings Utgarde Keep and Utgarde Pinnacle cited as an example of a successful split. They're similar dungeons thematically, but if players had to tackle them both together they'd be pretty arduous.
- Mr. Mercer had an amusing phrase for the whole venture: "I did a pass through all the older dungeons, and we're doing what I call Cutting Out The Suck."
- Graveyards are more convenient No more nightmare 10-minute runs back from a distant graveyard to the depths of a dungeon.
- They're expecting a lot of new players in Cataclysm and they don't want older dungeons to be a roadblock. "We don't want dungeons to be left behind in the redo, we want them to be up-to-par with everything else." Dungeon sections with pointless trash will be trimmed. They should be "Easier for players to understand (and) easier to navigate."
- Dungeons that are confirmed "fixes" so far Uldaman, Maraudon, Sunken Temple, Wailing Caverns and Blackrock Depths.
- Uldaman overhauls The dungeon is being split into two separate wings. Ironaya will be final boss of the first portion of Uldaman; they felt that the epic feel of assembling the staff and opening her room would be a good ending. The latter portion of Uldaman will be accessed through the existing back-door entrance.
- Maraudon overhauls Like Uldaman, it's being split into two: The "living" section and the elemental portion with the Princess.
- Sunken Temple overhauls One of the floors will be cut completely, although this is a change that will ship with Cataclysm rather than with patch 4.1
- Wailing Caverns overhauls "Almost every boss has its own room now." Confusing portions have been cut.
- Blackrock Depths overhauls Teleporters added!
BlizzCon 2010 is upon us! WoW Insider has all the latest news and information. We're bringing you liveblogging of the WoW panels, interviews with WoW celebrities and attendees and of course, lots of pictures of people in costumes. It's all here at WoW Insider!Filed under: News items, BlizzCon
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
In A World (XBL) Oct 24th 2010 5:03AM
"select the boss you want to kill"
I get the sarcasm, but actually that's not a bad idea. They could make it part of the Emerald Dream. You and your party can practice the encounter in the dream world, but not get any loot or experience. It's just so you can learn the really complex fights. A boss "simulation" would only become available in the Emerald Dream after your encountered (and presumably wiped on) that boss in the real world.
Asa Oct 23rd 2010 3:29PM
Didn't they already kinda split Mauradon with the introduction of the LFG? I remember when it was first released you only got the reward for completing one of the bosses at the end of, for example, the purple wing.
Lipstick Oct 22nd 2010 6:26PM
This all sounds well and good. But as a lower level dps class, who spends hours waiting in cue, for the dungeon finder to find people to -do- wailing caverns, because people can't cue for it without discovering first -- I can say this sucks. I finally had to avoid doing it all together -- I guess I'll have to go back and farm it at a high level to get my achievement (sad panda)
It's one thing at high levels when the quests take you specifically right through the zones, in most cases. But newer players aren't going to know inherently -- nor plan to treck all the way to WC if they roll an undead or a blood elf to go discover WC in the barrens. Maybe the dev's plan for it to be that you only go to the dungeons in your region.
But this seems kinda silly.
Eirik Oct 22nd 2010 6:35PM
Um... it's queue, by the way. (Those wacky french...)
If I remember right, WC (and stocks and ragefire) were on the list of dungeons you didn't have to 'discover'.
Lipstick Oct 22nd 2010 6:56PM
Well then they changed their mind about it. Stockade, and Ragefire -- do not require you to discover them. WC you do though. Very much a PIA. I wish -- much like I wish they'd waited to change raid lock outs -- til cata launched.
Cause on live atm, you can't "queue" for it, you must discover it first.
And I always type cue instead of the q version cause I always think there should be more u's in it then there are .. so it's just easier.
Kerby Oct 22nd 2010 7:29PM
Is this something that new with just the last patch?? I have a lvl30 Orc hunter that's never been to or discovered any dungeon but has queued and ran RFC, Deadmines, WC, BFD, Stockades, SFK, RFK they've just shown up when I reach the appropriate level ( and only 5-15min wait depending on time of day)
Lipstick Oct 23rd 2010 8:50AM
It's new.
My level 26 druid, ran it by being able to cue for it -- when my warlock picked up a quest for WC, and I tried to cue for it, it said "you must discover this instance first" similiar to how it use to say "you need to obtain better gear before runing this heroic".
My guess is some dev thought it was good to add a few non 85 dungeons to the list of dungeons you have to discover so the mechanic made sense to people at a max level.
But as a warlock -- who already faces long cues, who made the long long trek to the barrens to get the quest, and discover WC, just so I can do it -- I can tell you waiting in cue for 2 hours because half the lower level population -hasn't- discovered it yet, and thus can't be cue for it -- sucks.
If I had more time I woulda been back to the /who 15-25 way of finding people -- and then trying to explain to people they need to go -to- the dungeon the old fashioned way ..
People are just like no thanks, it takes too long -- bye.
Oomu Oct 22nd 2010 6:54PM
I still think the simplification of ALL Dungeon is BAD for wow.
it removes all the magic, all the exploration, all the wonders.
Blackrock depth is one instance I love because it is a functional dwarf city and caverns to live.
WC is a mess, yes, it's true, but it was interesting.
now, we need diversity, more choice.
since BC, dungeons are basically long halls. and it's boring.
Some are interesting, for example some added with Icecrown citadel.
BC had ONE truly great instance, maybe the ever best designed : Karazhan.
Luftwaffles Oct 22nd 2010 9:03PM
Very true. I happen to like sunken temple for some reason. I guess it's that jungle-temple look... feels like an indiana jones movie, where I'm trying to puzzle out the maze to get at some prized artifact, having to fight native voodoo guys and kill crazy beats, whilst avoiding the obligatory pit-o-doom.
Or maybe I just RP too much. Either way, if it were made into some crappy hallway with a boss at the end, I would not be happy. The maze like quality makes a player feel like they've stumbled into something forbidden and every corner could hold something valuable.. or deadly. I guess I prefer atmosphere over the "GIMME LOOT NOW" attitude.
Killik Oct 23rd 2010 6:57AM
Hopefully they'll be able to keep the flavour we love, while removing the element of wandering around aimlessly for 5 hours and losing the rest of your group. As far as BRD goes, that's not even an exaggeration.
Al in SoCal Oct 22nd 2010 7:08PM
What - no more getting lost trying to find my way back to Sunken Temple? I so liked it ...
A wipe normally signaled disbandment exactly for that reason.
Murashu Oct 22nd 2010 7:13PM
They can butcher all the dungeons they want and I really do not care since I don't plan on leveling any other alts, but...
Doesn't this go against what they have been talking about changing with Cata? GC has mentioned several times that they wanted to slow down the rate at which people burn thru dungeons because many of us don't find dungeon speed runs to be fun. They already nerfed AoE abilities to help with that, but to balance it out, now they are making dungeons even shorter.
Seems counterproductive to me.
ed15 Oct 22nd 2010 7:45PM
The dungeon changes mentioned don't seem to make them easy enough. I vote for one room, one boss, no movement at all. I get to kill said boss with one finger while watching something on tv and get loot. Actually, I don't want to push the one button, or even hearth to the dungeon, just give me the loot in the mail already.
Possum Oct 22nd 2010 7:45PM
I'm hoping that these changes to make dungeons less confusing aren't actually changes to make them more boring. I loved the Vanilla instances. I still do. They were the only ones that weren't a straight line towards a boss, rinse, repeat.
I know some people don't have time to run WC or BFD and I can understand that. What I'd like is a way to differentiate between whether you want to run a short dungeon or a long one in say the dungeon finder. Keep some long complicated instances in there for people who have the time and prefer the instance itself to provide a challenge, not just the enemies.
Wailing Caverns, Sunken Temple, DIre Maul, Blackrock Mountain. These are my favourite instances. You can interact with these massive cities, or ruins or temples and it's epic. You walk into Utgarde keep and while the scenery is epic it's like an epic painting that you're looking at. There is no interaction. You know you're really in a hallway in a line towards the next boss.
KJP Oct 22nd 2010 7:48PM
It hasn't been mentioned explicitly but: you can add Gnomeregan to the list of dungeons that are a going to be a lot less painful, based on my run through it on the beta. Not only is it significantly shorter, but you're pointed along the way by a gnomish version of a certain foursome... one of whom you thought was a night elf.
gewalt Oct 22nd 2010 7:56PM
I am sad because BRD and Temple of Atal'Hakar are my two favorite classic dungeons. You get a tank who knows his way around and its an excellent time for all. TONS of loot, and just the right amount of trash per boss. As long as you have a knowledgeable tour guide.
If you have 5 people lost as all hell, well.. forget it. its miserable.
MisterRik Oct 23rd 2010 11:45AM
This is what a lot of the vanilla dungeons boiled down to for me. I didn't start playing until a few weeks after Wrath launched, so good luck finding experienced people to group for dungeons. All the experienced players were busy playing the then-new Wrath content. And I wanted to spend my time actually playing the game, not standing in a capital city for hours posting "Ret pally LFG for Sunken Temple!" (this being before the LFG tool, of course). Players who *started* in Vanilla had a much easier time in this regard - they could actually find more people wanting to do those dungeons, including people who had been in them before and might know their way around.
I ended up just waiting until I outleveled the dungeons and then trying to solo them. Of course, at that point it was just so I could say I'd done it, since none of the loot was still useful to me. But some of them ... ST, BRD, etc. I just couldn't do because the maps were entirely too confusing. I give a pass to dungeons that are set in natural caverns (such as WC or Mara), because those have to go with the random layout of a naturally-formed cavern. But there's really no logical reason for a created structure (like ST, and I'll include BRD here because while it's a natural cavern, it's been extensively carved out and "remodeled" by the Dark Irons) to be mind-bogglingly confusing. I mean, look, ST is a purpose-built structure. Trolls built the place to do their work in (it's essentially a workplace for troll priests). Who would build a place where the workers are probably going to get lost trying to find the bathroom on their lunch break, and then get lost again trying to get back to their office?
I find nothing at all entertaining in going around and around in circles and continually finding myself right back where I started, and feeling like I'm making absolutely no progress because no matter what passages I take they all seem to lead me right back to the same place. Of course, a big part of the problem is the maps (nonexistent) and the minimap (where multiple levels are all squashed together and visible at the same time, so everywhere you turn the minimap makes it look like there should be a passage, but there really isn't - it's actually two levels below/above you.) The fact that they're fixing this in Cata is encouraging.
I can't speak to BC dungeons, since I didn't do any of them (except Sekketh Halls at level 80, solo, for the Pilgrim's Bounty achievement to kill Ikiss while wearing pilgrim clothing), but I love Wrath's dungeons. Purpose-built structures with logical layouts. I want to fight the bad guys, not the floorplans.
Rude Hero Oct 22nd 2010 8:09PM
This is consistent with other changes that have been made in the game over time. It makes dungeons easier to pick up and complete, but it reduces their depth.
When I first started playing, the complicated natures of dungeons like wailing caverns and sunken temple were frustrating, especially in combination with the difficulty inherent in forming a group. This was because I wanted to get to level 80 as quickly as possible, and questing was simply faster. This was also before the dungeon finder.
However, when I leveled my warrior tank, the dungeon finder *did* exist. I had the confidence and time, so I spent my time exploring and figuring out the best ways to tackle a dungeon. Learning dungeons like wailing caverns, sunken temple and blackrock depths (ESPECIALLY blackrock depths) was extremely satisfying to me. I was the guy who still queued for azeroth dungeons at 60 and bc dungeons at 70. The only dungeon I regret not being able to complete at an appropriate level is Scholomance.
I realize that the exploratory experience isn't for everybody. Some people just want to "beat the level." But to me, the wrath dungeons feel like glorified hallways in comparison.
Pat Oct 23rd 2010 2:16AM
I completly agree with all of this.
And "Glorified Hallways" is what they are, It's not fun.
Killik Oct 23rd 2010 7:03AM
That seems a case of rose-tinted glasses. The tBC dungeons were just as much "glorified hallways" as WotLK instances. The difference being that the content was tuned higher and most of us had far worse gear.