Drama Mamas: Raiding while female
by Robin Torres 
Oct 22nd 2010 at 9:00AM
Drama Mamas Lisa Poisso and Robin Torres are experienced gamers and real-life mamas -- and just as we don't want our precious babies to be the ones kicking and wailing on the floor of the checkout lane next to the candy, neither do we want you to become known as That Guy on your realm.
I love that song and the way it makes me want to join a conga line around New York City. But just because I wanna have fun, doesn't mean I can't get serious as necessary. Duh. There are more male raiders than female, just like there are more male gamers than female. That gap is becoming smaller by the year, however. It's a numbers game; it's not about skill.
Does anyone really think top raiding guilds shouldn't have females anymore? Tell me. I want to know and I want to know why. But first, read about Raider Girl after the break.
I'm an active raider and I just joined a new guild. I enjoy raiding at a high level and put a lot of effort into the game. However, my new guild has some reservations about me being female. I know many top guilds don't even accept female players and I feel lucky to be in one that does. They've instructed me to just "fly under the radar." How should I handle this? I'm afraid if I wait until I have to speak up in raids I'm going to cause some sort of disturbance by the whole guild realizing the new recruit is a girl. But if I socialize too much pre-raid, I don't want to seem "too friendly for a girl." I'm afraid that they'll see my presence in the guild alone as causing drama. I would prefer to be just one of the boys, and have friends and off-raid groups without causing a problem. I don't want to be alienated just for being female. How can I introduce myself to the group in a way that will make both me and the guild officers happy?
Drama Mama Robin: Raider Girl, I am a little unclear as to why such a big deal is being made of your gender. I was under the impression that most top guilds do not in fact have no "no girls allowed" rules, regardless of rumors. Of course, I could be mistaken about that. Are you the only raiding female in the guild at this time? When they instructed you to "fly under the radar," was that in response to a question from you or did they volunteer that information? Did they have a problem with a Drama Queen recently? Is their atmosphere a bit female-unfriendly? Also, who is the "they" who told you their reservations? Are "they" officers or just fellow raiders? I feel like we're missing some vital information in this scenario.
Regardless, I think the solution is actually rather simple: communication. If the guys telling you they have reservations aren't officers, then I really wouldn't worry about it. Just don't be That Gal and make sure you stun them with your skills and professional attitude. If the officers are the ones telling you to keep it low key, however, you really need to be asking them the questions you asked us. Do they want you to keep quiet in vent until further notice? Is it OK for you to chat it up in guild chat? Have them define what they mean by "fly under the radar." Regardless of what we say, they are the ones who are judging your behavior and acting accordingly.
Until you get this worked out with them, here are some tips for keeping a low profile:
- Wait a bit before your first time speaking in vent. It's always best to keep quiet until you get your guild's vent etiquette down. Don't speak unless spoken to by the people in charge or unless absolutely necessary. Once you get the hang of your guild's particular voice chat culture, then you can venture in more often as long as you respect that culture and the raid rules. Our staff gives some more vent tips in this older post.
- Speak in guild chat sparsely for a while. It's really the same tactic as with vent. Wait to see what the guild culture is like before you join in too much.
- No flirting! If these guys are skittish about females among them, don't prove them right by being flirtatious. In fact, I don't care how much you may end up liking someone in your new guild, hands off for the foreseeable future. These guys seem pretty no nonsense, so treat it like a business and act professionally. Disclaimer: Of course, people meet, date and marry at work all the time. It's still not a good idea. Don't poop where you eat. Also, do as I say not as I do. Apply other sayings as needed.
- Be uber. This is really important. If you are awesome as well as being drama-free, they aren't going to care what your gender is at all.
- Be humble. Sure, you're uber, but don't go into this thinking you know it all. Assume they know better and you're here to learn. Even if you don't learn anything (unlikely), your attitude will improve their opinions of you.
Drama Mama Lisa: Although I really need to go pack for BlizzCon right now, I promise that that's not the reason my reply is so short. I simply can't think of ... well ... There's not much else to do here but ask one question:
Does this really sound like an enjoyable guild home to you, tiptoeing across a bunch of egg-headed male eggshells?
You seem like a skilled, experienced raider who's ready to pour her heart and enthusiasm into a cooperative effort. Can you really achieve that with this uptight bunch of boys? You say you don't want to be alienated just for being female -- but the truth is, by having to deal with this directive that's been unceremoniously dumped in your lap, you already are.
If there's a compelling reason to go with this guild, then Robin's advice flies. If this guild won't bear you aloft on the wings of angels, however, I'd take their "flying under the radar" and fly right out the door.
Now I've got to wing it, myself -- see you at BlizzCon, good people. Fly straight.
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with a little help and insight from the Drama Mamas. Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas@wow.com. Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 13)
sullyXXX Oct 22nd 2010 9:07AM
How can a guild have a "no-girl" rule? Or even instruct a female to fly under the radar?! There are girls in our guild that pwn just as hard, if not harder, than guys do. If they have a problem with you being a girl, leave them. I'm sorry, I have no time for sexism.
Tomatketchup Oct 22nd 2010 9:12AM
I guess they are afraid of cooties.
Stefan Hayden Oct 22nd 2010 9:26AM
yeah my answer would have been short. change guilds. there are so many good guilds to choose from it's not worth sticking it out with bad ones.
Nina Katarina Oct 22nd 2010 9:28AM
On the other hand, Robin's great advice for adapting to being the New Girl can apply to how you approach any new social group or online bulletin board. Read more than you write, listen more than you talk, until you have a feel for the social norms. Don't flirt until you know who's taken, who's gay, who's likely to take more seriously than you want him/her to take it. I hope that this doesn't get lost in the girl/boy/cooties discussion.
That's advice that applies in a raiding guild, in a bowling league, in a civic association, in a new job, anywhere in life where there are people who socialize.
Armill3 Oct 22nd 2010 9:41AM
It's not your fault that males playing this game can be troglodytes. There's at least some correlation between why they're online raiding four nights a week as opposed to out at the bars wowing women with their savvy social manners. Don't let their social inhibitions ruin your time. There are plenty of guilds out there at the cutting edge willing to include people regardless of their gender, and many of them run by women, often more effectively that by males.
Robin's advice though is solid for *anyone* joining a new guild.
gatorfan Oct 22nd 2010 9:58AM
OK, this takes the cake in terms of throw back say 80 YEARS! "No girl" rules in a guild? Are you serious? Blizzard has Naethera as a spox and no one gets their panties in a bunch about that.
My advice, which is worth less than $0.02, ignore the "fly under the radar" guidance and be yourself. Although for a short time it may have repercussions with that ONE bigoted guild, it will gain you respect with other non-bigoted guilds that are uber and want the most uber, authenticate people to raid with.
Authenticity beats bigotry any day of the week.
Josin Oct 22nd 2010 10:15AM
I say embrace it. We boys are stupid and easily manipulated by women. Work it in your favor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umLmbtNkuAg
espercrusader Oct 22nd 2010 10:23AM
Speaking as someone coming from a guild where a SINGLE girl was responsible for our guild leader flipping out and /gdisbanding the guild which ultimately ended up all but killing hardcore raiding on the Alliance faction on my server for the next four years until now... I can see why there might be some trepidation from more than a few guilds about letting a girl into their ranks. That being said there are a number of girls in the new guild that I've raided with for the last four years. The real key is to get incorruptible officers that won't fall prey to the dreaded "e-whore" that has smashed oh so many guilds in the past.
roseclown Oct 22nd 2010 10:31AM
@Esper
And how many dudes single handedly brought down a guild? I can think of quite a few stories off the top of my head.
In short: People need to get their head out of their butts and see that skewed perspectives are skewed, and not penalize an entire gender for it.
Adoisin Oct 22nd 2010 10:31AM
@ Nina
That's good advice for anyone, male or female.
This guild sounds like it is run by 12 year old boys. Avoid the drama all together, ditch it, and find a new guild.
Jorges Oct 22nd 2010 10:36AM
# ...so treat it like a business and act professionally.
This is actually the best advice you can have for almost everything. It works prety well, keeps you "under the radar" and let you determine if that's really the guild for you. Also, the rest of the guild will mind their own bussines and you'll probably know why the hush-hush about a girl.
# Be uber. This is really important. If you are awesome as well as being drama-free, they aren't going to care what your gender is at all.
# Be humble. Sure, you're uber, but don't go into this thinking you know it all. Assume they know better and you're here to learn. Even if you don't learn anything (unlikely), your attitude will improve their opinions of you.
Not much to say about these two, they are self explanatory and excellent and proven advise. Just keep a quality game and keep it humble. If that's a serious raiding guild, they care more about quality game than socializing.
Just keep something in mind tough, if they are telling you too keep it quiet about your gender is because they have some kind of issue with girls, for whatever (justified or not) reason. This is not normal at all, and you should probably better be somewhere else.
Having these -no girls allowed- issues on these days is really archaic. We are born from women, have mothers, sisters and girlfriends. Is really stupid to try to separate men from women in a world when they depend of each other. I'm glad my guild welcome women with open arms.. if fact, we don't even care if you're a blue alien or whatever. We're all playing the same game.
Kunikenwad! Oct 22nd 2010 10:38AM
@ esper
Wait a second. You're blaming one person (a girl) for bringing down hardcore raiding on the Ally side because of a girl?
And you think the girl was the one at fault? How about your immature and assinine guild leader for taking such drastic action because he got emo? Jeez, some folks just take this too far.
Expo Oct 22nd 2010 10:48AM
While my guild is nothing like the one in question here, and while we have several female members and/or raiders, I want to say that I can see where they're coming from.
If a guild has had drama in the past, or heard horror stories about drama, the desire to avoid that might lead to these situations. It's a case of the "greater good".
The logic might look like this: "Well, that was messy. We lost X, Y, and Z to the drama that 'she' caused, and now we're going to have to recruit again. Let's just save ourselves the trouble in the future and make a blanket ban on girls in the guild."
It's similar to the logic of having only "mature" 18+ or 21+ members. And while I think that you will certainly miss out on some very skilled and beneficial players with those sort of restrictions, that cost is offset by the security of an atmosphere which is drama free. (of course the problem is that there are plenty of douche-bag guys out there that can cause just as much, if not more, drama.)
All that to say, I don't think it's just misogynistic, chauvinistic, d-bags making "boys only" clubs: there are real concerns, simply addressed in the wrong way.
Zaros Oct 22nd 2010 11:21AM
My guild has ~12 girls and 7 who show up almost every day for raiding. They always pwn the men. Their kinder than most of the men and add a lighter mood to the vent chat. Without them there I imagine we would fall into chaos. My advice: LEAVE THE GUILD. IF they don't appreciate having you, then don't stay there.
simonjackson79 Oct 22nd 2010 11:56AM
@Armhill3: How about you take your idiotic biases about gamers and go and play in traffic.
The statement you made can be turned on it's head to suggest that girls who play wow are also all social recluses who are too awkward to go out to bars and wow men.
Every single wow player I know (barring my housemate) has a wide and varied active social life, most are in perfectly happy relationships. The majority of gamers, even mmo players, are perfectly functional people.
Seriously, it's the D&Ders you need to worry about.
JustPlainJim Oct 22nd 2010 12:07PM
Apparently the comment system ate my comment. :(
Unfortunately, there still seems to be some people that believe women are
a) totally inept
b) somewhere between an emotional train-wreck and an roller coaster.
I admit, I still have a bit of bias against women in games, but I blame that on my ex-gf being... well... totally inept at games and an emotional roller-coaster.
Thankfully, I've had enough counter-examples that my biases are quickly fading.
Eirik Oct 22nd 2010 1:28PM
@esper: I'd have to say that the guild as a whole failed that one. What happened to the Trusted Lieutenants (IE Guild Officers)? Were they sleeping on the job? Was the GM carrying the whole guild on his back? (That'd be enough to crack anyone!) Why didn't they simply pow-wow and form a single new guild on the ashes of the old?
A guild isn't simply one person. Unless it's a one-person guild, which makes for poor raiding anyway.
Eraina Oct 22nd 2010 1:43PM
To put it frankly, I have no idea what the fuck that guilds problem is. I am a female raider. I have a healer and I have a tank. And I have never had a problem being a girl in a guild. People freak out in pugs sometimes when they find out the tank is girl because most of the time healers are the girls but I have never been told you can't do this because you're a girl. What does a vagina have ANYTHING to do with playing a video game...?
Most of the time in guilds, I tell people flat out right that I am a girl. I'm not going to hide my sex to people I spend most of my day with... A lot of people in guildes often find it really cool to have a girl around in my personal experience. You don't find girls in WoW a WHOLE lot and most of the time in raiding guilds you only have two or three at a time. I sit and talk on vent with my guildies for hours and honestly, I get more respect from them than some of the guys do. People tend to shut up and listen when I talk on vent because I know fight mechanics very well for nearly all dungeons and raids and if I'm speaking during raid times its because I'm explaining what a debuff does or telling the GM that healers need to stand here because it's more beneficial. I have had only one time someone say something about me being a girl.
It was my first time Palli tanking Heroic Lootship and I wasn't used to the kiting method and I jumped over to quick and ended up losing him and killing some people. A pugger said "and that is why you don't let girls run raids" (because I was a co-GM of a guild at the time and was raid leading a lot of it.) I bitched him the fuck out, gave his loot to other people, then kicked him from the raid after lootship was over.
Like I said, I would say you don't have to hide who you are. There is a difference between being a girl who raids with the guys and someone who can cause drama. I'm sure they've had experiences with girls in the guild who get in trouble with people and cause fights and automatically stereotype you for that. I would tell everyone straight up that you just wanna raid and that's what you're there for. I think they will respect you more for stating this from the beginning then hiding it, letting them think you're a dude then suddenly say "Hey, I have breasts, that a problem?" And if they have a problem with that, they aren't worth the time to raid with.
C4G Oct 22nd 2010 2:05PM
Totally. F'tha-sheet.
coolkcguy Oct 22nd 2010 2:12PM
My girlfriend was in the top raiding guild on the server. Nobody ever gave her shit because she was better than ALL of them. Literally, she out healed every healer in every raid and she out geared them ALL. They couldn't afford to talk crap about her being a girl, because they would have lost a major asset in their healing arsenal. :P