Gold Capped: Sleazy auctioneers and giving away trade secrets

I walk a strange line. There are two distinct extremes in the readers of this column: those who feel I shouldn't be telling people their "secrets" about how to make gold, and those who believe that anyone who uses the auction house to make gold is somehow bad (in skill or character -- I get both). While the majority of readers are somewhere in the middle of the spectrum between these extremes, let's look at the arguments.
Trade secrets
The people who I upset when I publicize the exact methodology that goes into making money on the auction house tend to say that I'm giving away secret gold-making methods, which is similar to a magician's explaining how to do a magic trick. These people don't seem to mind trading information with each other in gold-making forums, but the argument goes that these methods shouldn't be widely publicized outside these forums, sometimes even outside the members-only parts of the forums.
To this, I say that if it were a real secret, I wouldn't know it. More to the point, unlike well-performed magic, anyone with the time and interest can figure out everything I've written without having read anything but the WoWInterface and Curse addon pages. Auctioneering isn't doing rocket science; it's economics with a dash of UI customization thrown in.
The metaphor breaks down at the magician line, though. Magicians earn their keep by mystifying people for money, and if they were to tell their clients how they do "magic," they would quickly find themselves without clients. My buyers probably don't even look at the name on the auction they're buying; they just buy the cheapest one, and the information I'm sharing is more relevant to my competition than my clients. If I can't handle any informed competition in whatever market I'm in, that simply means they're better than I am -- and if this were real PvP, I'd have just lost some arena points.
More to the point, the more auctioneers there are, the more fun we all have. How much fun would a gladiator title be if you only got it because there wasn't anyone to fight against? Well, at least you'd have an achievement and a mount. Auctioneers get absolutely no in-game recognition, other than the ability buy silly mounts and raiding knicknacks they wouldn't be able to earn without cash. The real fun comes from talking to other players about this particular facet of the endgame -- comparing notes and strategies, telling stories and having rivalries. Don't be hurt when your favorite niche market hits the front page of WoW Insider, but enjoy the challenge of staying on top of an ever-increasing auctioneer player base.
Only sleazy players and gold farmers play the AH
This is the accusation that bothers me the most. The gist of most of these arguments is that the people who just want to log in once a week and sell their honor-bought gems and Primordial Saronite get undercut immediately, and when a regular player needs raw mats to craft, they're expensive. Also, auctioneers are jerks for charging for things that take them no effort to make.
It costs thousands of gold to level a profession, and even more to get all the popular recipes once you're at max skill. Charging a margin on crafted goods is completely fair. The real question is whether you're going to circumvent the open market by bartering or gifting friends with goods, or whether you'll pick up your sword and join the free market in all its cut-throat, capitalist glory. If you're one of those folks who makes stuff for free for friends and for a tip for strangers, that's fine. You've decided to avoid the open market and focus on other parts of the game. The economy is mostly optional participation, however just like PvP, there will be times when someone who is better than you at it pwns you when you weren't looking for a fight.
As for undercutting and the prices of raw materials, it's not auctioneers that are hurting you; it's demand and supply not agreeing on a price you find satisfactory. Auctioneers won't generally buy mats that are overpriced, and they can only undercut as long as they have supply. We are subject to the same pressure of supply and demand that you are. If raw mats are expensive, it's because there's low supply or high demand. If you get undercut selling your Primordial Saronite, it's because there's high supply or low demand. We all have exactly the same cost of doing business and exactly the same opportunity to make money.
Purely self-interested actions (participating in the economy by buying or selling goods, as well as undercutting) can't, by definition, be "jerky". To be honest, though, this kind of metagame does tend to attract jerks. It's completely a solo part of the game where teamwork and playing cooperatively have much less of a benefit to a player than a solid understanding of the prisoner's dilemma and opportunity cost. Honestly, jerks tend to do better. More auctioneers are not jerks than are, though. Sure, some of us build a Shield of Jerk that we wear when we speak to others about this part of the game, but that's a natural reaction to the derision that we can face. Make your way through that, and you'll find that we're actually mostly the same as you. We just care about a different sort of imaginary currency than you do.
Filed under: Economy, Gold Capped






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 7)
dodgeballer2005 Oct 28th 2010 2:02PM
I love how the price worth of Shadow's Edge has been undercut to 10% on my server.
Cale Oct 28th 2010 4:04PM
Honestly, your second point really is an indication of what is wrong with Liberal America.
Trilynne Oct 28th 2010 2:07PM
I, for one, am very happy that you choose to share your AH info with us. Using your tips and tricks enabled me to buy those 'silly mounts'! :D and next time I need to make a pile of money, I'll know where to turn. ^^ Thank you Basil!
Eyhk Oct 28th 2010 3:27PM
I appreciate it as well, easy to digest information without spending time looking through gold making forums trying to make sense of the in-game economy.
I'm an altaholic and just doing my daily heroics and weekly raids takes up more than my allotted time for WoW. I also like having the resources to do all that without having to go to extremities. Thanks to Gold Capped, I had the heart to try out a sizable investment in titanium ore before 4.0.1, and that allowed my just new JC to get all the titanium powder needed to buy the most common epic gem recipes (which would've taken weeks and weeks of dailies) as well as get a tenfold return on my investment. Since I had a small inventory to work with compared to most of my competitors, subscribing for the remote AH and checking every now and then just for this month was more than sufficient to sell all my inventory.
Learning about the in-game economy is no more sleazy than running a store or investing for retirement. Thanks to Gold Capped, I now have enough money for 310% flying on all my toons (except my main, just got my violet proto!) with money to spare!
Anye Oct 30th 2010 5:18AM
Agreed. This column has opened me up to a part of the game that I never thought I'd enjoy, but do... And it has the potential of making other aspects of the game more rewarding and less of a hassle. Thanks for Gold Capped!
mijody1 Oct 28th 2010 2:09PM
Don't forget about [Gurubashi Mojo Madness] potions! They're needed for a summonable boss in ZG, and lots of people need them to get the exalted trinket, and are willing to drop a pretty penny for them =]
jair Oct 28th 2010 2:54PM
They don't sell on my server for some reason, even after pricing them at a loss considering the mats.
Foxfyr Oct 28th 2010 2:09PM
Actually the magician metaphor goes further to support what you say. I have friends that are professional illusionists and they purposefully give away secrets. If magicians don't strive to constantly better themselves, they fall behind the curve.
Nina Katarina Oct 28th 2010 2:10PM
A big thing that auctioneers add to the game is convenience. Farming for a BoE recipe or pet is something I find incredibly tedious. Some people find it soothing or relaxing. But if they post their whelpling and nobody buys it, they're forced to repost, sometimes at lower and lower prices, until the collector comes on and buys it.
A speculator will keep reposting that pet or that recipe or that rare mats enchant on the market until it sells at a decent profit margin, keeping the item available for me the consumer and letting you the buyer have a reward for your efforts and luck.
mijody1 Oct 28th 2010 2:11PM
Don't forget about [Gurubashi Mojo Madness] potions, they're needed for a boss in ZG that drops the quest items to build the exalted reputation trinket, and believe you me, people are willing to pay a pretty penny for em !
Saeadame Oct 28th 2010 2:14PM
Lol. This article has made me realise I'm one of the people avoiding the market. I make things for tips. I would rather give away or delete unneeded items than go to the auction house, because I just have no patience for it. Do I have lots of gold? Nope, but I guess I'm okay with that.
However, I've never thought people who make lots on the auction house are bad people, lots of my friends do it and are, well, significantly richer than me.
Great article =).
Pyromelter Oct 28th 2010 8:25PM
"because I just have no patience for it"
May I suggest an addon for the impatient: Auctionator. Just hit the "sell" tab, it will automatically set up a price that will undercut for you. The only thing that I really changed in terms of settings was to make the default auction duration 48 hours. The addon pretty much does everything else for you.
Not as good or as powerful as Auctioneer, but Auctionator is, in my opinion, what the default AH UI should look like.
Eirik Oct 29th 2010 3:04PM
I dispute the characterization that bartering, trading with friends, and working for tips is not part of the same market as the AH.
There is a point where the costs (mostly in "your time") become too great to make putting things on the Auction House. Advertising in trade chat "LFW" can take a minimum of your time, and zero resource (gold) costs/risks. Your profit margin is great.
Posting on the AH, and being undercut nearly immediately essentially wastes your time for no return on investment.
It's a rational decision. And it affects the Auction House. How is that not part of the same market?
As an example, I noticed that a fair number of people were asking for blacksmiths, to make enchanting rods, so I started supplying enchanting rods on the AH for a modest mark-up from the market prices of the materials. The trade chat demand immediately nose-dived. The AH affected the Trade chat portion of the market. How could it possibly not work the other way around as well?
Zamboni Feb 25th 2011 6:20PM
"There is a point where the costs (mostly in "your time") become too great to make putting things on the Auction House. Advertising in trade chat "LFW" can take a minimum of your time, and zero resource (gold) costs/risks. Your profit margin is great."
I don't see how sitting in town playing in the chat channel takes less more time than simply throwing stuff up on the AH and getting back to the daily chores. My add-ons can list a thousand auctions in less time than it takes me fat-finger a single "LFW" message, any one of which will probably earn me more gold than the tip I'd have to wring out of someone who's already too cheap to buy from the AH. Barking in the chat channel just doesn't scale up - trying to sell a hundred gems to hundred customers one at a time would take half the day, but selling those same gems on the AH takes just a few minutes - and probably at a much higher markup.
frugality Oct 28th 2010 2:24PM
I would just like to point out a complete understanding of the Prisoner's Dilemma game would allow one to realize it is disadvantageous to be a "third derivative of the position function." There is opportunity for collusion in WoW. I suppose the resulting game would be a Stag Hunt type scenario, or defection. Would be interesting to figure out the equilibrium and toy with some economies.
Alas, I definitely fall into the "make stuff for friends for free, tips for strangers" category so I am really out of my league here. Every time I read one of these articles, I consider it more strongly each time.
Frizzlefry Oct 28th 2010 3:20PM
Too many big words.......brain hurt.....
Roboticus Oct 28th 2010 8:00PM
This would correctly be modeled in game theory as an n-firm Cournot competition game. Profit from the model for a given player i is (a - qi - q~i)((a-c)/(n+1)) - c((a-c)/(n+1)), where a is a fixed demand parameter, c is marginal cost, n is the number of firms, assuming symmetric costs and demand. You can see that profit goes to zero as n goes to infinity (keeping in mind that cost includes opportunity cost).
That's what Basil misses in his analysis. The magician metaphor is not a good description of why some auctioneers don't like gold guides widely available. It's rather that auctioneers know (even just intuitively) that as the number of players on the AH increases (n in the model above), their profits go down. The best example of this is when mmo-champion.com posted their gold addons guide, profit in the industries mentioned in the guide decreased by approximately 30-50%.
Basil writes, "More to the point, the more auctioneers there are, the more fun we all have." That is most certainly not the opinion of everyone in the market. And finally, it is not that Basil is providing secrets, but rather he is just popularizing already well-documented concepts. He's not adding anything new, but just voicing it on a larger audience website. Nonetheless, popularization such as this affects the profit of AH players, and so it should be taken as unexpected that AH players might not like this sort of column.
frugality Oct 28th 2010 8:48PM
wooo Roboticus you made my evening, thank you.
However, in simple economic terms, it's a purely competitive market (a rare occurrence in the real world!) and thus, Average Total Cost=Price. Over the long-run, the cost of the barriers to entry (leveling profs) are negligible.
Roboticus Oct 28th 2010 9:29PM
You're right that if it truly was competitive, new entrants wouldn't matter to an individual's profit. However, I think that analyzing the number of players on the AH suggests it is most definitely not competitive. The major thing lacking is having "unlimited number of sellers." Take the glyph industry, which is probably the closest to competitive of the sectors. Export the data, sort by poster name, and do a pivot table to count the unique sellers. There are 18 on my server, most of which are not big players. Every other market has fewer posters. Using the Cournot formula above, adding a 19th glyph maker of average productivity (say he just read Basil's post and got super excited by free money!) would decrease the average glypher's profit by 5.2%.
In other words, the number of sellers on a server is small enough that p =/= ATC, and so Basil's posts do decrease profit of the Auctioneers.
frugality Oct 28th 2010 9:40PM
Yes...you are quite right. Was that data taken into account over a period of time? The fact you only have 18 (or 19) sellers at that point in time is not indicative of the total number of players. In THEORY anyone can post an item, which we definitely agree on. I just feel like 18 is a really low number.
But we agree, I know, and I am just jammering on. Game theory makes me nerd out.