Gold Capped: Sleazy auctioneers and giving away trade secrets

I walk a strange line. There are two distinct extremes in the readers of this column: those who feel I shouldn't be telling people their "secrets" about how to make gold, and those who believe that anyone who uses the auction house to make gold is somehow bad (in skill or character -- I get both). While the majority of readers are somewhere in the middle of the spectrum between these extremes, let's look at the arguments.
Trade secrets
The people who I upset when I publicize the exact methodology that goes into making money on the auction house tend to say that I'm giving away secret gold-making methods, which is similar to a magician's explaining how to do a magic trick. These people don't seem to mind trading information with each other in gold-making forums, but the argument goes that these methods shouldn't be widely publicized outside these forums, sometimes even outside the members-only parts of the forums.
To this, I say that if it were a real secret, I wouldn't know it. More to the point, unlike well-performed magic, anyone with the time and interest can figure out everything I've written without having read anything but the WoWInterface and Curse addon pages. Auctioneering isn't doing rocket science; it's economics with a dash of UI customization thrown in.
The metaphor breaks down at the magician line, though. Magicians earn their keep by mystifying people for money, and if they were to tell their clients how they do "magic," they would quickly find themselves without clients. My buyers probably don't even look at the name on the auction they're buying; they just buy the cheapest one, and the information I'm sharing is more relevant to my competition than my clients. If I can't handle any informed competition in whatever market I'm in, that simply means they're better than I am -- and if this were real PvP, I'd have just lost some arena points.
More to the point, the more auctioneers there are, the more fun we all have. How much fun would a gladiator title be if you only got it because there wasn't anyone to fight against? Well, at least you'd have an achievement and a mount. Auctioneers get absolutely no in-game recognition, other than the ability buy silly mounts and raiding knicknacks they wouldn't be able to earn without cash. The real fun comes from talking to other players about this particular facet of the endgame -- comparing notes and strategies, telling stories and having rivalries. Don't be hurt when your favorite niche market hits the front page of WoW Insider, but enjoy the challenge of staying on top of an ever-increasing auctioneer player base.
Only sleazy players and gold farmers play the AH
This is the accusation that bothers me the most. The gist of most of these arguments is that the people who just want to log in once a week and sell their honor-bought gems and Primordial Saronite get undercut immediately, and when a regular player needs raw mats to craft, they're expensive. Also, auctioneers are jerks for charging for things that take them no effort to make.
It costs thousands of gold to level a profession, and even more to get all the popular recipes once you're at max skill. Charging a margin on crafted goods is completely fair. The real question is whether you're going to circumvent the open market by bartering or gifting friends with goods, or whether you'll pick up your sword and join the free market in all its cut-throat, capitalist glory. If you're one of those folks who makes stuff for free for friends and for a tip for strangers, that's fine. You've decided to avoid the open market and focus on other parts of the game. The economy is mostly optional participation, however just like PvP, there will be times when someone who is better than you at it pwns you when you weren't looking for a fight.
As for undercutting and the prices of raw materials, it's not auctioneers that are hurting you; it's demand and supply not agreeing on a price you find satisfactory. Auctioneers won't generally buy mats that are overpriced, and they can only undercut as long as they have supply. We are subject to the same pressure of supply and demand that you are. If raw mats are expensive, it's because there's low supply or high demand. If you get undercut selling your Primordial Saronite, it's because there's high supply or low demand. We all have exactly the same cost of doing business and exactly the same opportunity to make money.
Purely self-interested actions (participating in the economy by buying or selling goods, as well as undercutting) can't, by definition, be "jerky". To be honest, though, this kind of metagame does tend to attract jerks. It's completely a solo part of the game where teamwork and playing cooperatively have much less of a benefit to a player than a solid understanding of the prisoner's dilemma and opportunity cost. Honestly, jerks tend to do better. More auctioneers are not jerks than are, though. Sure, some of us build a Shield of Jerk that we wear when we speak to others about this part of the game, but that's a natural reaction to the derision that we can face. Make your way through that, and you'll find that we're actually mostly the same as you. We just care about a different sort of imaginary currency than you do.
Filed under: Economy, Gold Capped
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 7)
Eirik Oct 29th 2010 3:18PM
@BB Crisp: For you, efficiency is what matters. What matters to others differs. I'd perhaps remind you that WoW is, still, a game. For some, the pain of parting with gold to buy something outweighs the opportunity cost of farming the materials. For others, it may be the sense of accomplishment: "I soloed it". It's a wide world, and plenty of different mindsets out there. The primary rule is, "it's a game. If you're not having fun, something is wrong."
h3internet Oct 28th 2010 2:38PM
If I have a rare item, I have every right in this world to put it in the auction house at whatever price I want. If you don't want to pay my price for the item...the don't. It's that simple. If I decide to travel all over Azeroth and collect recipes from the various vendors...and I sell them for 500% markup for my time...that's my prerogative. If you don't want to pay the markup...don't. I do not see the big deal.
tatsumasa Oct 28th 2010 3:02PM
how does this in any way relate to the article?
Hih Oct 28th 2010 7:25PM
I'm assuming it's in response to the people who "think anyone who uses the AH is scum".
matt Oct 28th 2010 2:41PM
I got involved in the AH because I wanted to buy epic flying on my first 80. since I had no cash, I farmed herbs, crafted flasks and did AT dailies for a week and I was flyin' fast. I was so amazed how fast I put the money together I did the same for another few weeks. At that point I had enough cash to get more involved in the AH. I really don't care abut getting gold capped but never want to have to put off buying riding skills, crafting mats, or gear for my many alts. The AH is fun, but not as fun as raiding.
Candina@WH Oct 28th 2010 2:53PM
As an armchair economist, I've wanted to study the market in WoW. I've even thought about putting together a commodities index, and doing some forecast modeling. [I'm a data geek, sorry].
But to play the AH, seriously, hasn't really appealed to me. Gold, in game, is not a motivating factor for me. But... I may have to rethink that.
It might make for a good way to spend 30 minutes every morning as a diversion from life....
Pyromelter Oct 28th 2010 8:51PM
The fun in the AH is not in the crafting, posting, and undercutting.
It's when you open your mailbox, tell your mailbox addon to open and collect all your mail, and your addon signals to you that you have collected 2k gold.
I spend too much time raiding and pvp'ing to really dominate the market on my server, and at this point profit margins are generally really low (because of end of xpac, and because I don't have a scribe for glyphmas, doh!). But I've got a large chunk of G saved, up, 5 alts at level 80, i've got about 25k per level-capped character. And while I wasn't able to rake in the booty for glyphmas, I did make a cool 10k on cut gems and enchants the week of 4.01.
Opening your mailbox to a few thousand gold is where the reward is, and reinforces you to keep playing the AH. Plus, you may have some down days where nothing sells and you have to eat deposits, but overall, you usually end up on the positive side of the balance sheet if you post wisely.
Kylenne Oct 28th 2010 2:58PM
I'm probably what you could call part of WoW's Middle Class; I'm not filthy rich, but I've been able to easily afford epic flight on multiple toons and things like a Battered Hilt. I'm generally too lazy to farm, but I do have almost every profession covered on my alts, intentionally so I don't have to deal with people like you on the AH. I have a great deal of old world enchants of the sort that fetch a premium, but I try to charge reasonable prices. It seems to me that your last paragraph is pretty much invalidated by your first few. From where I'm sitting, people who aren't jerks wouldn't care about their "secrets" getting out. In no other aspect of the game do people act like that--just on this site, I don't see angry comments on class guides or pvp guides or what have you. IMO this kind of paranoid selfishness is inherent to people for whom this is the *only* part of the game. It's all about them, and their gold hoarding, and screw everyone else. I also come from a server whose economy is almost entirely jacked up because of these AH shut ins, who frequently start sending angry whispers to people who undercut them. Gordon Gekkos, the lot of them. Personally, I'm thrilled every time Blizzard does something like the glyph change, or breaking addons, if only to see these douchebags cry into their cheetos.
But I'm honest enough to admit my generally dim view of people who seem to do nothing but camp the AH all day comes from having very little respect for unfettered capitalism IRL, being the dirty hippie I am and seeing what it's done to my country up close (I used to work in the financial services industry), and seeing the same rationalizations for greed and predatory behavior on here is kind of lulzy to me. At least no one in the game is really hurt by it, unlike IRL. If it makes you feel any better, I have even less respect for the PvP griefers than I do for the AH griefers. FWIW, I think you're one of the good guys, Basil, but don't kid yourself. (And here comes the downvoting, lol.)
frugality Oct 28th 2010 3:03PM
I think you save yourself from massive downvoting because you clarify that your opinion is borne exclusively about how you view real world economics. That being said, that's a dangerous topic to broach on a WoW site. Therefore, I give you another youtube video classic, the Hayek v. Keynes rap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk
Kylenne Oct 28th 2010 3:17PM
Ha, it's not as though this wasn't going to end up a massive wankfest anyway, given that auctioneering tends to bring out very strong opinions in people.
FWIW, I tend to believe the Gorden Gekko types (people with massive automating operations over multiple accounts and the like) are a distinct minority in the playerbase as a whole, just like nerdraging raid leaders who scream on vent are a minority. As I said in another comment, people who are obsessed with one aspect of the game to the exclusion of everything else are far more likely to be wankers that piss everyone off about it, it doesn't matter whether it's AH camping, PvP, raiding, RPing or anything else. It's just that, well, you're far more likely to have to deal with the AH shut ins than the other groups. You don't *have* to raid, or do any of those other activities, but no matter what aspects of the game you're into, eventually you're probably going to have to go on the AH at some point.
frugality Oct 28th 2010 4:06PM
Frankly, I wanted an excuse to post that video. (IT'S AWESOME, WATCH IT!)
I would just say that if you are a "super casual" player, then you will not even notice the people who hardcore auctioneer. Like you, I have alts with almost all of the professions...just missing JC, but I still use the AH to get rid of my extra mats or the stuff i farm up on my farmer (gotta love that herb and mining are now easy to use at once) and I respect that the opportunity cost of camping the AH is kind of annoying. I am unsure about the remote AH/its specific mechanics.
Basically, I think that at some point demand will meet supply and after people buy off the crazed AHers, the goods of the casual player will remain. Thus, it all will work out if you are patient...maybe you'll have to repost a few times. Not that huge of a deal. It's like finally getting kingslayer this month instead of getting realm first.
Forreststump Oct 29th 2010 10:59AM
"...comes from having very little respect for unfettered capitalism IRL"
I pretty much had that figured out in the first two sentences, but thanks for the confirmation. =)
ben Oct 28th 2010 3:02PM
Great article
but this is to Vilhelm above me. Basil does not write this so people like me can screw over people like you. he writes this so everyone will have the same knowledge. now how you use that knowledge is up to you. it seems to me that you would be the guys with the small farm stand on the side of the road selling corn and that's fine. as long as you know that i use the knowledge given to me and seek more. so i will be building a super market next to your house. i am not a bot er i am just a regular guy that is good at the ah. you have to grow with the growing market or you are left behind to pick up the scraps.
ambermist Oct 28th 2010 3:02PM
I'm in the middle. I certainly enjoy making gold; I have a guild bank and an auction mule and I'm very close to hitting my goal for the Cataclysm launch. However, I don't set out to farm. I don't use any mods. I respect the people who do (as long as they aren't complete jerks; I've run into those a few times), but I just don't have the patience to mess with it.
So I level my alts or I gather herbs or do other things I enjoy, like raiding or battlegrounds. I use the AH to sell the things I collect competitively, and the gold trickles in constantly.
It won't have me sitting at 200k, but it keeps me more than comfortable.
Shade Oct 28th 2010 3:23PM
The argument has always been in the spirit of Main Street vs. Big Business.
"I want to buy Master Flying, but I need another 1200 gold. I'll grind a bunch of dungeons this weekend instead of having fun doing XYZ and sell some gems and/or Primordial Saronite to earn it." ---Mainstreet the 80 Warrior
"I don't actually have anything I want to buy, but I'm pretty bored, so I'll take over the more popular markets this weekend." ---Bigbiz the 4 Warlock
1) Mainstreet has an objective that most people would agree is valid and themselves would put in the work toward.
2) Mainstreet is doing what most people would agree is real work in order to make the money
3) The gem and/or saronite markets are means, not ends, for Mainstreet. In other words, Mainstreet doesn't hold interest in the other players listing on those markets. Bigbiz wants people to buy from him, not anyone else, for an extended period of time.
John Oct 28th 2010 3:54PM
So - if Mainstreet puts stuff on the AH that Bigbiz is trying to 'corner,' you're saying Bigbiz is not allowed to buy Mainstreet's items and repost them at higher prices?
How does that make Mainstreet sad? He put in the time and got his gold. Win-win.
Or (more likely)
Are you saying that Mainstreet should be allowed to charge people his price regardless of what Bigbiz's 'low price that makes Mainstreet's effort not pay what he deserves?'
How is that bad? Mainstreet should have checked the AH to see what the expected rate of return was on his time investment before he went & did his farming. If Bigbiz is selling 30 hakkari bijous for 20s each and Mainstreet was hoping to sell the 8 he farmed for a few gold a piece, then how does that make Bigbiz a bad guy?
- maybe they were never worth a few gold each
- maybe they were worth a few gold each last weekend but are not worth that today because Bigbiz decided he didn't want that stuff in his bank
Does everyone on the server have to pay into a fund so Mainstreet can get what he expected as a return on his time? If you think they should, I'll gladly manage that fund ;) .
Pyromelter Oct 29th 2010 7:09AM
The problem with that analogy is that in WoW, the playing field is generally level, whereas in real life, it is no where even close to level.
So a business person wants to make money. In wow it would be as you posted:
"I don't actually have anything I want to buy, but I'm pretty bored, so I'll take over the more popular markets this weekend." ---Bigbiz the 4 Warlock
In real life, it would be like this:
"I don't need another billion dollars, but I feel like buying 18 new villas in Italy. So I'm going to give my friend Mr. Sleazy Senator 2 million dollars, and he'll make sure we get that sweetheart tax break that will net us 10 billion dollars."
You can insert almost any industry, and any high-ranking government agent in that phrasing. Political bribes, I mean donations, are simply one of the best ways a big company can invest their money to get a return on their investment. Meanwhile, giving someone like Variann wrynn 100,000 gold won't get you squat in wow. He's not going to pay you 10x that amount for some war materiel, he's not going to bail out your bank alt if you lost a million gold.
WoW has a great economy, in large part because there is no favoritism, and in servers with mature markets, supply and demand tend to match up well, with reversions to the mean when things get out of balance. This is opposed to the socialized politico-economic systems we have worldwide today, where governments actively support further and further imbalances in the system. Where BigBiz has the advantage IRL due to government support, BigBiz has to succeed solely on his own merits, and there is too much competition in mature wow servers for him to really have a monopoly. And if he tries to monopolize by buying people out, then mainstreet again wins since the value of their farmed materials will go up.
Ahoni Oct 28th 2010 3:24PM
Am I the only one who hates Auctioneer? I started a few months ago trying to make some money, and the more I used Auctioneer, the more I hated it. I hate having to scan the AH to do anything. I hate its overly complicated interface. I hate that searches using Auctioneer are USELESS if you haven't run a scan in the last hour. Blah. Really don't see what people see in this addon.
The answer ... Auctionator. Does what you need ... posts multiples, automatically undercuts, searches items quickly, and gives you a list of your auctions that have been undercut.
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/auctionator.aspx
Basil Berntsen Oct 28th 2010 3:40PM
It was a fine standin when auctioneer was broken, and I might keep it around for the saved searches, but it doesn't hold a candle to the snatch list or many of the other features I use.
Ahoni Oct 28th 2010 4:12PM
I found snatch to be useless. If I had done an AH scan, it works fine. Otherwise, it returns junk results. When I want to use the AH, I don't want to waste my time scanning the entire AH.
Auctionator does the trick nicely. I can click through my entire shopping list, purchase what I need, post what I need, cancel any undercut auctions, and be back to playing the game long before Auctioneer completes a scan.