Gold Capped: Sleazy auctioneers and giving away trade secrets

I walk a strange line. There are two distinct extremes in the readers of this column: those who feel I shouldn't be telling people their "secrets" about how to make gold, and those who believe that anyone who uses the auction house to make gold is somehow bad (in skill or character -- I get both). While the majority of readers are somewhere in the middle of the spectrum between these extremes, let's look at the arguments.
Trade secrets
The people who I upset when I publicize the exact methodology that goes into making money on the auction house tend to say that I'm giving away secret gold-making methods, which is similar to a magician's explaining how to do a magic trick. These people don't seem to mind trading information with each other in gold-making forums, but the argument goes that these methods shouldn't be widely publicized outside these forums, sometimes even outside the members-only parts of the forums.
To this, I say that if it were a real secret, I wouldn't know it. More to the point, unlike well-performed magic, anyone with the time and interest can figure out everything I've written without having read anything but the WoWInterface and Curse addon pages. Auctioneering isn't doing rocket science; it's economics with a dash of UI customization thrown in.
The metaphor breaks down at the magician line, though. Magicians earn their keep by mystifying people for money, and if they were to tell their clients how they do "magic," they would quickly find themselves without clients. My buyers probably don't even look at the name on the auction they're buying; they just buy the cheapest one, and the information I'm sharing is more relevant to my competition than my clients. If I can't handle any informed competition in whatever market I'm in, that simply means they're better than I am -- and if this were real PvP, I'd have just lost some arena points.
More to the point, the more auctioneers there are, the more fun we all have. How much fun would a gladiator title be if you only got it because there wasn't anyone to fight against? Well, at least you'd have an achievement and a mount. Auctioneers get absolutely no in-game recognition, other than the ability buy silly mounts and raiding knicknacks they wouldn't be able to earn without cash. The real fun comes from talking to other players about this particular facet of the endgame -- comparing notes and strategies, telling stories and having rivalries. Don't be hurt when your favorite niche market hits the front page of WoW Insider, but enjoy the challenge of staying on top of an ever-increasing auctioneer player base.
Only sleazy players and gold farmers play the AH
This is the accusation that bothers me the most. The gist of most of these arguments is that the people who just want to log in once a week and sell their honor-bought gems and Primordial Saronite get undercut immediately, and when a regular player needs raw mats to craft, they're expensive. Also, auctioneers are jerks for charging for things that take them no effort to make.
It costs thousands of gold to level a profession, and even more to get all the popular recipes once you're at max skill. Charging a margin on crafted goods is completely fair. The real question is whether you're going to circumvent the open market by bartering or gifting friends with goods, or whether you'll pick up your sword and join the free market in all its cut-throat, capitalist glory. If you're one of those folks who makes stuff for free for friends and for a tip for strangers, that's fine. You've decided to avoid the open market and focus on other parts of the game. The economy is mostly optional participation, however just like PvP, there will be times when someone who is better than you at it pwns you when you weren't looking for a fight.
As for undercutting and the prices of raw materials, it's not auctioneers that are hurting you; it's demand and supply not agreeing on a price you find satisfactory. Auctioneers won't generally buy mats that are overpriced, and they can only undercut as long as they have supply. We are subject to the same pressure of supply and demand that you are. If raw mats are expensive, it's because there's low supply or high demand. If you get undercut selling your Primordial Saronite, it's because there's high supply or low demand. We all have exactly the same cost of doing business and exactly the same opportunity to make money.
Purely self-interested actions (participating in the economy by buying or selling goods, as well as undercutting) can't, by definition, be "jerky". To be honest, though, this kind of metagame does tend to attract jerks. It's completely a solo part of the game where teamwork and playing cooperatively have much less of a benefit to a player than a solid understanding of the prisoner's dilemma and opportunity cost. Honestly, jerks tend to do better. More auctioneers are not jerks than are, though. Sure, some of us build a Shield of Jerk that we wear when we speak to others about this part of the game, but that's a natural reaction to the derision that we can face. Make your way through that, and you'll find that we're actually mostly the same as you. We just care about a different sort of imaginary currency than you do.
Filed under: Economy, Gold Capped
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Reader Comments (Page 4 of 7)
Brett Porter Oct 28th 2010 4:15PM
I've gotta disagree with you big time. I am a very casual auctioneer, just trying to make a bit of gold on the side with stuff I don't use from drops and whatnot. I don't spend a whole lot, but am saving up for 280 flying.
I was devastated with Auctioneer broke; I tried out 3-4 other addons and hated they didn't have a version of the Appraisal tab on Auctioneer. I know it has hurt me gold-wise, but I didn't auction much at all until Auctioneer was back up and running.
I know there are a ton of features & functions of Auctioneer I don't use because I'm a casual auctioneer, and it may be more complicated than needed for a pro, but I love what I've got in it!
icepyro Oct 28th 2010 6:29PM
It sounds to me you were using the slow scan (the play button one) and not the fast scan (fast forward icon that can only be used once every 15 minutes). One thing of note is that by default that button requires a second click to work. Once it does, I go refill my water glass and it's done.
Auctioneer has made vast improvements with this latest version and feels a lot faster than the old version did (or the economy is still broke, but the item counts sound about right still, so it must be more efficient in some regards). Most of my auctioning time is at the mailbox attempting to retrieve mail.
As with all good addons, your mileage may vary, and if you found an addon that you like and can use effectively, then by all means use it. Obviously you are not the only person or the addon wouldn't exist and stay updated. Over a million downloads on the most recent version, so they must be doing something right after all.
Suss Oct 28th 2010 3:27PM
I love auctioneers. They save me from having to farm mats and they (mostly) keep prices stable on my server.
To those who dislike auctioneers, you are welcome to join the fray and earn some gold yourself. It's ridiculous, however, to complain about the prices and do nothing about it. I would never expect someone to just give me something in real life, and I expect no more in a virtual economy. Time is a valuable resource. You may not like paying for it, but that does not diminish its inherent value.
Suss Oct 28th 2010 3:28PM
I also wanted to add: Thanks for the columns and please keep them coming!
Namssob Oct 28th 2010 3:29PM
I put myself in the middle with a *lean* toward the "stop giving away our trade secrets!" camp. I do enjoy your articles, and on the whole I cannot deny it helps the entire community. I don't complain about any of it, I just accept it and work harder to out PvP my auctioneer buddies. And let me START OUT by saying I do not reject your articles, and I welcome them. But I will humor myself with an opposing view....
- You claim that, "anyone with the time and interest can figure out everything I've written without having read anything but the WoWInterface and Curse addon pages." I disagree. Nearly 100% (key word nearly) of WoW players will agree that a top level raider or top rated Arena team requires more than time and interest - it also required SKILL/ABILITY. And AH PvP is no different. The truth is, many wanna-be auctioneers, even with time and interest could not have or would not have figured out many of the tricks you explain in detail. Many of the "secrets" we execute everyday were "figured out", calculated, or organized in a such a way that used our skills (in mathematics, supply/demand, market fluctuations, etc).
- Foresight - related to the above, one of those "skills" is what I would call market "feel" or foresight. Pre-expansions, pre-patches, etc - I am amazed at how many people READ the patch notes (time and interest, as you say) yet still don't see the connection between crafted gear and CD's going away on mats, etc. So in some ways, after I read something and see how I can buy "x" mat, transmute it without a CD, then craft "y" item, and sell for 350% profit - and then I read your article explaining the entire process to the masses - my instinct is to scream a "ShhhhhhhhH!!!!!!!!".
- Your implication that you're not affecting the markets too much because your buyers don't even read who they are buying from, etc, misses two bigger issues: Trade and Pricing.
Trade: What I advertise or ask for in Trade is now flamed and resisted/rejected twice as much as it used to be, "We know what you're doing and we won't stand for it! We all read Basil's article yesterday too!! What do you take us for, Morons?", whereas in days of old, I would instead get numerous whispers like, "Why on earth would anyone in the their right mind buy Dingy Frog Whiskers for 1g each? MORON!!". Think about it, in this case you're not increasing the average players capability to profit from Frog Whisker shuffling, you're just limiting my ability to continue to profit from it.
Pricing: If people suddenly realize (by reading your detailed explanation of it) I am profiting from following a complicated 3-step process to turn Dingy Frog Whiskers into Epic Frog Elixir, on the whole, a small number of people will jump into the game. That doesn't bother me. What does bother me are the MANY MORE people who simply say, "AAh - Dingy Frog Whiskers are now worth 10 times what I was selling them for!"
/end of rant.
Basil - I love you, your articles, and honestly I look forward to them more than any others on this site.
Lohr Oct 28th 2010 3:37PM
There are two flavors of player in this game, and how they interact with raiding, pvp or the auction house depends solely on if they A) put a value on their time or not and B) what that value is.
I make roughly $50k+/year, and work a pretty normal 40-45 hour work week. 40 hours, times 50 weeks a year (2 weeks vacation!) = 2000 hours. $50,000/2000 hours = $25/hour.
$25 is the value of my time. With $25/hour, and 1000 gold costing $5 bucks, then unless I'm making 5000/hour it's more worth it to buy gold. Of couse, once you factor in the potential loss of losing my account, I instead play the AH. Why?
Because flipping blues, and crafting raw materials into specialized goods gets me closest to the point where the value of my time is being utilized. Like other people, I suspect, I have things I could be doing outside of the game and when I choose to not spend time with them, and instead spend time in game, I make the most of it.
Same with raiding: asking me to join a 4 hour raid is literally asking me to spend $100. So general jackassery like being AFK annoys me more than someone who makes $9/hour. I'm losing more, so I prefer efficiency to friendly.
Anyway, people who don't know the value of their time can't prioritize: I know a person who spent an entire weekend farming herbs, yet had to sell his account when he was threatened with eviction. If he knew how to play the AH, he'd still have his toon.
So if you think it's not worth your time to learn how APM, and other addons like it work, consider how much time you're spending posting your auctions manually and realize that when it comes to man vs. addon, addon wins every time.
Plus. anyone dumb enough to post Boe weapons in the AH for 1-10g deserve to have the item bought out and flipped under their noses. There might not be a saying for it, but "Ignorance is Expensive". Very, very, expensive.
Ahoni Oct 28th 2010 3:45PM
"Same with raiding: asking me to join a 4 hour raid is literally asking me to spend $100. "
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Basil Berntsen Oct 28th 2010 4:01PM
Another issue with your reasoning is that even if you decided to spend your evenings working, you may not actually make 25$ an hour. In fact, if you're on salary, you may well earn nothing for that work, because salaried workers are paid a fixed amount. Your cost for an hour of wow time, whether you spend it raiding or auctioneering, is what you'd make if you had spent that working.
Cyrus Oct 28th 2010 4:34PM
"$25 is the value of my time. With $25/hour, and 1000 gold costing $5 bucks, then unless I'm making 5000/hour it's more worth it to buy gold. Of couse, once you factor in the potential loss of losing my account, I instead play the AH. Why?"
By this logic, you owe yourself $400 per day for the 16 hours you spend sleeping, eating, commuting, playing WoW and otherwise not working. Assume you started working at 20, you'll have to work 90 years past the usual retirement age to pay yourself back.
An Econ 101 professor would be either embarrassed or worried to hear this level of economic thought in class. Everyone else, though, can simply enjoy the absurdity of it.
Lohr Oct 28th 2010 4:57PM
If there is one concept all the wannabe auctioneers throws up here without a clue as to what it is, it's opportunity cost. My thinking does not include eating or sleep because those are necessary activities that do represent the highest/best use of my time. If I sleep 16 hours a day when I need 8, or eat 12 meals a day when I could get by with 3, the excess could be categorized as costing me stuff.
When will the people who play this game realize that flipping gems in a virtual world, gives you no credibility when it comes to finance, especially when you're talking to someone with a Finance degree. I got an A in Micro and Macro economics...so apparently my professor managed to plow through his embarrassment/worry and give me the grade someone with a clue deserved.
I really wish I could say the same for the others. P.S. there is a longer response to this floating around the comments...I don't feel like reposting it so go find it.
Aris Oct 28th 2010 6:06PM
I'm pretty sure this argument only holds water if you're playing WoW instead of working. It seems to me that it loses all merit once you're off the workday clock and in to your "me" time.
Lohr Oct 28th 2010 6:11PM
Aris; your me time is considered a cost. Once you decide you will not work vs. free time, any hobby you have starts costing you money.
Considering this is more time consuming than most hobbies, WoW can be pretty expensive.
Or think of it this way, most people start playing the game and it absorbs a ton of time and energy. How many people do you know started playing, lost a ton of weight, and went to school for a Masters degree? Not many...mostly because all those things stake time and there is only so much time in the day, and hours in a week.
icepyro Oct 28th 2010 7:13PM
Actually the biggest problem I have with your argument is that while I make less than you, I pay the same amount for my game time and I have about the same amount of free time not working (I only work 40-45 hours/week also). So essentially both our times online are worth the same.
What's worse is your logic that your time is worth $25/hour. Your job pays a set amount. The trouble is if you work more, you do not make more. So your time is actually not worth anything. It is your work (that you accomplish in the 40-45 hours/week) that is worth 50g at the end of the year.
As anecdotal evidence, during one project here, my department had to put in a lot of overtime to get the project done. Since I get paid time and a half for overtime and my boss is on salary, we figured it out that my time was apparently worth almost 18/hour for that month (normally 15 at the time) and that his time was ironically at just over minimum wage ($8/hr here in CA). Granted during normal weeks, I still made 15/hour and he made considerably more than 18/hour (more than your 50g/yr even), it was still funny at the time. Kinda.
And the real kicker is you tried to apply all this to buying gold or waiting for an afk raider. If your time is cut so fine that you don't have the patience for playing the game, then I question why you spend money on a game you don't have time to properly enjoy. If the threat of losing your account is your deterrence from buying gold or working out how valuable your gold/hour has to be to make it worth it to you, then I strongly encourage you to buy gold. Once you are goldcapped and quit the game because you could no longer earn gold, I'm sure your server will be very proud and happy.
Zanathos Oct 28th 2010 10:36PM
You could make the argument that joining a raid is equivalent to spending how much gold you could have made in that time frame. I wouldn't, as I'd consider raiding to be a leisure activity. A leisure time within the leisure time, as it were. But if you're not giving up work to play WoW, it's not costing you real money.
vrathmat Oct 28th 2010 3:36PM
While I also get angry at getting immediately undercut by that guy who camps the AH all day, I don't know if that really makes him "jerky." As long as he isn't already undercutting below cost, I always have the option to keep lowering my list price until either a.) The guy stops undercutting me or b.) He buys me out.
It's not that different from raiding. I would like to have gotten the gear from heroic LK. However, I don't have the time to dedicate to multiple nights of raiding over the timespan of several weeks/months. As a result, I settle for whatever I can get on normal mode. Because other people are willing to put in 10-15+ hours a week into raiding, does that mean they're being jerks because they have better gear than I do? Of course not. If I wanted to down HLK, I would have made the additional time commitment to do so. In the same way, if I want to list my items at a higher price, I have to put in the time commitment to making sure I cancel/report frequently. Otherwise, I simply list them at a lower price.
Granted, bots are cheating, plain and simple, but this article is talking about saying people are jerks that spend serious time on the AH. Does it annoy me when people spend more time than me? Yep. Does it make them jerks? Not really.
Eyhk Oct 28th 2010 3:44PM
The only "jerks" I've run into while going on my short AH spree was the ones who consistently undercut by a single copper. Sure, there are those glyph-filled weird names that you keep running into a couple silvers under yours, but undercutting is just another part of playing the AH game. I know there might be a chance that because of his undercut, your stuff might not sell but there's no need to get your feelings hurt. Just because that boss dodged your attack doesn't mean you sit down and cry and call him a jerk, you go hit him again or add some hit to your gear and go at it again.
Eyhk Oct 28th 2010 3:38PM
Question for Gold Capped:
What do people do when they reach gold cap?
It's not like there are oodles of stuff to do with all that gold.
I understand the "winning" part of getting gold capped and the entire game played in the wow economy, but it'd be cool if you could do a Gold Capped / 5 minutes of Fame article on serious AH-ers.
Basil Berntsen Oct 28th 2010 3:53PM
There's a site that does that- wow econ I think. In any case, now that the cap has been raised to a million gold, I imagine a lot more people will be saving their money again to be able to say that they're gold capped again :)
Personally, I plan on spending most of my money on buying raiding achievements and gear that's beyond the reach of someone with a 2 night a week schedule.
Abbadon Oct 28th 2010 5:16PM
Thanks to this column, Insider Trader, reader comments/suggestions, and a big thanks to patch 4.0.1... I GCd last Saturday, 10/23! This was my pre-cata goal even before the change, and I was very excited to finally hit it.
What is there to spend money on? Well, for me it's TCG mounts, some pets, and really, whatever catches my eye. But I'm still frugal, I won't pay more than I think something is worth.
I do spend more time at the AH and with my professions than the average player, but I feel it's been worth it. Had I not taken the time to learn the ins and outs of the AH, I wouldn't be able to afford items like the Swift Spectral Tiger or Crimson Deathcharger when they show up for sale.
Basil Berntsen Oct 28th 2010 6:20PM
Grats Abbadon! Did you pre-4.0 cap or post?