Cataclysm tanking changes expanded

Here are a few additional changes we are making which will be applied in patch 4.0.3a:
- Guardian of Ancient Kings -- Damage reduction changed from 60% to 50%. Cooldown still 2 minutes (talented). Duration still 12 seconds.
- Icebound Fortitude -- Damage reduction changed from 30% to 20% (or 60% to 50% talented). Cooldown still 2 minutes. Duration still 12 seconds.
- Shield Wall -- Damage reduction changed from 40% to 50%. Cooldown still 2 minutes (talented). Duration still 12 seconds.
- Glyph of Shield Wall -- Now buffs damage reduction by 10% (to 60%), but only adds 1 minute of cooldown.
- Survival Instincts -- Damage reduction changed from 60% to 50%. Cooldown reduced from 5 minutes to 2 minutes. Duration still 12 seconds.
- Bear Form -- Stamina bonus lowered from 20% to 10% and Heart of the Wild health bonus from 10% to 6%. Bear health should be close to plate tank health with this change.
- Vigilance -- No longer reduces damage by 3%, but will still reset Taunt cooldown and provide Vengeance for the warrior.
In addition to these changes, there was much expounding on the tanking design philosophy, which we will cover after that jump I hear so much about. Being a tank (and thus kind of slow mentally, according to Fox ... man, see if anyone taunts for him in Cataclysm dungeons), I need to go over these things in detail.
First off, these changes (except for the Vigilance one) all seem aimed at standardizing various tanks' "OMFG HE'S CHARGING HIS LAZORS" buttons. Everything lasts about 12 seconds, takes 2 minutes to cool down and cuts incoming damage by 50 percent. The Shield Wall glyph will allow warriors to increase that damage reduction by an additional 10 percent, but it will also increase the cooldown for 1 minute. This basically reduces the damage absorbed for everyone but warriors, who ended up with their baseline 40 percent increased -- but if I were a druid, I would be thrilled with the reduction in the Survival Instincts cooldown. A 10 percent damage reduction lost but being able to use it more than twice as often? Yes, please.
The Vigilance change makes an ability that threatened to become nearly mandatory for using on an off tank in a raid into one you'll still try and use on an off tank -- but he or she won't care, because that damage reduction benefit is gone, gone, gone. I'm starting to wonder if I'll even bother with Vigilance in my tanking build in Cataclysm.
Meanwhile, the Bear Form/Heart of the WIld changes are a pretty hefty nerf. They may be necessary to balance bears against plate tanks, but I can't imagine that any druids out there will be happy with them. Still, if all four tanks end up more or less interchangeable for the content, it means less being forced to sit for "supposedly optimal tanking class of the month," which will ultimately be a good thing. I still don't expect any druid tanks to be happy about it; I know I wouldn't be. Ghostcrawler (lead systems designer) talks more about why this was necessary in a later post quoted below.
Finally, GC went on at length about what the tanking design for Cataclysm is and how it differs or departs from Wrath of the Lich King (which I have got to stop misspelling as Wrath of the Licking). Take us away, GC.
Q u o t e:
I'd like to point out that this hasn't been true for the entire expansion of Wrath of the Lich King.
The faster a cooldown has been available has determined its importance.
See: Heroic Beasts, Anub'arak, TLK, Sarth +3, Vezax, nearly every single tank death fight this whole expansion.
I believe you guys are just flat wrong.
I'd like to point out that this hasn't been true for the entire expansion of Wrath of the Lich King.
The faster a cooldown has been available has determined its importance.
See: Heroic Beasts, Anub'arak, TLK, Sarth +3, Vezax, nearly every single tank death fight this whole expansion.
I believe you guys are just flat wrong.
I agree it worked that way in Lich King. Tanks were often at risk of dying within 2-3 boss hits, often faster than a heal could land. In that environment anything that can prolong your life at all is very valuable, and by extension anything not related to reliably prolonging your life (parry for instance) is not attractive.
This is also something we have set out to change. I understand that you personally don't believe we will change it, and since your vision of what the world will be like is at odds with our vision, it is unsurprising that the changes we make to bring about our vision might not make sense to you.
But if healer mana doesn't matter, our whole combat design collapses. Healers won't value cheap heals. Since mana won't constrain them, overhealing will be common, so they may start devaluing crit as well. DPS specs won't value talents that help them stay alive. And the only way to challenge raids will once again be to clobber tanks so hard that any missed heals will result in tank death. It doesn't have to be this way, and in fact it wasn't this way for much of the game. We were watching the new Nefarian fights and recalling the old Nefarian fights where, in the absence of a berserk timer, the fight could really last for a long time -- maybe 20 minutes or more -- if you had a lot of deaths. The tank wasn't in much danger of RNG dying, so as long as the healers didn't run out of mana, the raid could keep the fight going nearly indefinitely.
As we said above, in the beta raid tests, druids were easy to keep alive and the other tanks were dying in two hits. That wasn't the design we were going for, so we brought the druid down to the other tank levels and adjusted the damage accordingly.
So basically, all the changes so far are aimed at helping move us toward a design that does not rely on Mimiron-style, massive damage that forces your tanks and healers to get absolutely everything right, or watch as tanks die, then the raid dies. While as a tank, I've grown used to this kind of design (à la Soul Reaper), I can't say I'll miss it very much. And I do look forward to heroics that are slightly less grueling to tank and raid groups that care less what class you tank with than whether or not you know how to generate threat and help your healers keep you alive.
We will see how it all ultimately shakes out, of course. If the changes to Bear Form and Heart of the WIld end up balancing tank health and the cooldown changes make their survivability more even, we could be entering a pretty positive phase for tanking. At any rate, we're probably entering the phase of tanking where no one taunts off of Fox until he apologizes, which should be fun for us all.
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm will destroy Azeroth as we know it; nothing will be the same! In WoW Insider's Guide to Cataclysm, you can find out everything you need to know about WoW's third expansion (available Dec. 7, 2010), from brand new races to revamped quests and zones. Visit our Cataclysm news category for the most recent posts having to do with the Cataclysm expansion.Filed under: Druid, Paladin, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, News items, Death Knight, Cataclysm






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Sterb Oct 29th 2010 1:20PM
It's about time they owned up to the tank death encounter design failure in this expansion. Every raid tier they acknowledged the problem with this type of encounter, but would implement the same problem the next tier and act surprised when specific tank types always ended up being necessary.
The 1-2 hit in less than a second instagib fight is NOT fun. Repeatedly trying an encounter waiting on RNG and lag luck to beat it is a waste of time and not entertaining.
GerardthePriest Oct 29th 2010 1:09PM
In re: Vigilance use - to me it still seems useful for an off tank to use on a main tank, especially on tank-switching fights. With Vigilance placed on the first tank by the second tank, the second tank will, when taunting, already be at or near maximum Vengeance, which is nice. Your phrasing "using on an off tank" confuses me, as I have trouble of thinking of a reason a main tank would put Vig on an off tank, ever - did you mean BY the off tank ON the main tank?
AltairAntares Oct 29th 2010 1:24PM
Maybe this is a relic of WoTLK speaking, but it just seems like something that's nice, but not really worth spending a talent on if there's other, more survival related talents available- especially since they have to make the fights so that that kind of quickly repeated taunting isn't necesary since there won't always be a warrior tanking.
Ashteroth Nov 2nd 2010 5:09PM
I personally am pissed at what they've done to vigilence. First they take away the threat gain so it's basically only getting any use if we put it on the other tank for the damage reduction then they are unhappy with the tank getting more damage reductio (which as I pointed out was a direction they basically forced us into) so they took that away too. So in one month Vigilence has gone from one of the most unique and useful talents in the prot warrior tree to not even being useful enough to spend a talent point on. Had anyone else not been enjoying warrior tanking since the patch?
Tim {the other Tim} Oct 29th 2010 2:11PM
Really the biggest question is "What are you giving up in order to keep Vigilance" As of right now I don't see one single point worth switching in my spec. I see several great talents, but most would require two points for me to think about taking again. I think the value of having the ability to spam taunt is worth it. Missing a taunt on a fight make me want to soil myself, and 1 talent point is worth my pants.
Siaperas Oct 29th 2010 4:20PM
The vigiliance nerf is aimed to make it more of a utility build. Right now, I use it on the other tank, some fights I main tank, and some fights I off tank. It just makes sense to have it on a tank with the way it awards vigilance stacks, refreshes taunts, and reduces damage. I think the fear is if they make the baseline for all tanks equal, you could get an extra 3% damage reduction on both tanks by stacking warriors. By taking that out, it gives warriros flexibility to choose if they want to use vigilance or not, and discussig the worth of vigilance in theory craft is the direction they want to go.
Sleutel Oct 30th 2010 10:39AM
Vigilance in 4.x is designed to be used *by tanks on tanks*. Period. Main-on-off and off-on-main, same difference. Unless someone in your raid is screwing up, the only people getting hit should be the tanks. So the tank who is only tanking for part of the fight, or who is tanking adds instead of the boss, is *still* taking more damage than anyone else in the raid you could Vig, meaning that (a) they benefit more from the 3% damage reduction than anyone else, for as long as this feature exists, (b) they will proc your Taunt more often than anyone else, and (c) they will transfer more Vengeance to you than anyone else.
Really, I find this change completely obnoxious, and I can only hope that they reconsider before they make the change, or at least give us something else to compensate.
Moobs Oct 29th 2010 1:12PM
More Tank changes grrrrreat, I was just getting used to the changes they already made, hopefully they will changes that make it better not worse!
Moobs Oct 29th 2010 1:15PM
typing what a pain, it should read "hopefully the changes will make it better not worse!"
Onikuma Oct 29th 2010 1:20PM
Bears have always used stam as their only defense against magic based attacks. Every other class has more than just their flavor of shield wall to defend against magic. Bears just got taken down many pegs.
AltairAntares Oct 29th 2010 1:28PM
Yeah, but "bear"wall only having a 2 minute CD is a significent buff as well I think- it makes it so that tanks will be much more willing to use it, which will really help conserve healer mana.
Saeadame Oct 29th 2010 1:34PM
Well, I'm sure if that's still the case with all the armor changes they've made they will change something else to equalize bear tanks with the others.
Savage defense is probably still a little overpowered when facing melee bosses, so it could just be that yes, bear tanks will be niche tanks.
Killik Oct 29th 2010 1:52PM
Perhaps I'm missing something, but aren't Paladins in the same boat and, thus, 50% of the tanking classes?
Sterb Oct 29th 2010 1:57PM
You mean like?
http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=78736/perseverance
tatsumasa Oct 29th 2010 2:06PM
"...in the beta raid tests, druids were easy to keep alive and the other tanks were dying in two hits. That wasn't the design we were going for, so we brought the druid down to the other tank levels" even though they have fewer ways to mitigate damage as other tanks do - i'm looking at you block and anti-magic bubbles. so, will bears now be carrying shields on their faces?
blizz wants to make all tanks more similar so they can make boss fights less dependent on what type of tanks my be facing them - alright, that sounds fine. but tanks aren't all the same, and a larger heath pool has been what's made bear tanks viable since they lack abilities the other three classes have. yes, si is now on a two-minute cd, but so is every other similar ability for other tanks. this 'buff' looks to me more like bringing abilities in line. i don't feel it counters the health nerf.
Onikuma Oct 29th 2010 3:08PM
Paladins have several defenses against magic in the form of cooldowns. Divine Shield, resistences aura, LOH, word of glory, ardent defender, and sanctuary are all ways a pally could mitigate the damage from magic damage.
Onikuma Oct 29th 2010 2:11PM
Misposted this: Paladins have several defenses against magic in the form of cooldowns. Divine Shield, resistences aura, LOH, word of glory, ardent defender, and sanctuary are all ways a pally could mitigate the damage from magic damage.
tatsumasa Oct 29th 2010 2:32PM
@sterb that is a second tier restoration talent btw...
Snuzzle Oct 29th 2010 2:35PM
@Sterb, that talent is in the second tree of the Resto tier. As such, bear druids will not be able to put a single point in it until 81. We don't get to fill it out until 83. I know these changes don't happen until 4.0.3a, which is the Cataclysm patch but still.... while levelling up in dungeons, bears are going to be squishier to magical attacks.
So now that Survival Instincts is basically Shield Wall, where's our Last Stand? Oh. We don't get one of those. Hrm.
I understand that this change is supposed to make damage more equal across all tanking classes so bears are not the de facto tanking class. I don't want that. No one wants that.
But I can't help but feel like this is instead going to make bears dead last in tanking like we were all through Wrath, whether it was justified or not. Whenever I'd queue up for a dungeon I always got "Oh wow, a bear!" or some surprised comment to that effect.
I just feel like bears are getting the short end of the stick, again. I have faith and hope that Blizzard will be able to solve this but well. We'll see.
Matthew Rossi Oct 29th 2010 2:54PM
I'm trying to figure out what defense warriors have except stam against magic. Spell Reflection works on some trash mobs, but not all, and doesn't work on any bosses. So it's not a defense against magic damage while tanking (in fact, I use it more to generate aggro by getting spell caster trash mobs to damage themselves).
Barkskin ( http://www.wowhead.com/spell=22812 ) reduces all damage taken by 20%. Shield Block doesn't do anything against magic damage. So you're AHEAD of warriors against magic damage, not behind them.