Cataclysm tanking changes expanded

Here are a few additional changes we are making which will be applied in patch 4.0.3a:
- Guardian of Ancient Kings -- Damage reduction changed from 60% to 50%. Cooldown still 2 minutes (talented). Duration still 12 seconds.
- Icebound Fortitude -- Damage reduction changed from 30% to 20% (or 60% to 50% talented). Cooldown still 2 minutes. Duration still 12 seconds.
- Shield Wall -- Damage reduction changed from 40% to 50%. Cooldown still 2 minutes (talented). Duration still 12 seconds.
- Glyph of Shield Wall -- Now buffs damage reduction by 10% (to 60%), but only adds 1 minute of cooldown.
- Survival Instincts -- Damage reduction changed from 60% to 50%. Cooldown reduced from 5 minutes to 2 minutes. Duration still 12 seconds.
- Bear Form -- Stamina bonus lowered from 20% to 10% and Heart of the Wild health bonus from 10% to 6%. Bear health should be close to plate tank health with this change.
- Vigilance -- No longer reduces damage by 3%, but will still reset Taunt cooldown and provide Vengeance for the warrior.
In addition to these changes, there was much expounding on the tanking design philosophy, which we will cover after that jump I hear so much about. Being a tank (and thus kind of slow mentally, according to Fox ... man, see if anyone taunts for him in Cataclysm dungeons), I need to go over these things in detail.
First off, these changes (except for the Vigilance one) all seem aimed at standardizing various tanks' "OMFG HE'S CHARGING HIS LAZORS" buttons. Everything lasts about 12 seconds, takes 2 minutes to cool down and cuts incoming damage by 50 percent. The Shield Wall glyph will allow warriors to increase that damage reduction by an additional 10 percent, but it will also increase the cooldown for 1 minute. This basically reduces the damage absorbed for everyone but warriors, who ended up with their baseline 40 percent increased -- but if I were a druid, I would be thrilled with the reduction in the Survival Instincts cooldown. A 10 percent damage reduction lost but being able to use it more than twice as often? Yes, please.
The Vigilance change makes an ability that threatened to become nearly mandatory for using on an off tank in a raid into one you'll still try and use on an off tank -- but he or she won't care, because that damage reduction benefit is gone, gone, gone. I'm starting to wonder if I'll even bother with Vigilance in my tanking build in Cataclysm.
Meanwhile, the Bear Form/Heart of the WIld changes are a pretty hefty nerf. They may be necessary to balance bears against plate tanks, but I can't imagine that any druids out there will be happy with them. Still, if all four tanks end up more or less interchangeable for the content, it means less being forced to sit for "supposedly optimal tanking class of the month," which will ultimately be a good thing. I still don't expect any druid tanks to be happy about it; I know I wouldn't be. Ghostcrawler (lead systems designer) talks more about why this was necessary in a later post quoted below.
Finally, GC went on at length about what the tanking design for Cataclysm is and how it differs or departs from Wrath of the Lich King (which I have got to stop misspelling as Wrath of the Licking). Take us away, GC.
Q u o t e:
I'd like to point out that this hasn't been true for the entire expansion of Wrath of the Lich King.
The faster a cooldown has been available has determined its importance.
See: Heroic Beasts, Anub'arak, TLK, Sarth +3, Vezax, nearly every single tank death fight this whole expansion.
I believe you guys are just flat wrong.
I'd like to point out that this hasn't been true for the entire expansion of Wrath of the Lich King.
The faster a cooldown has been available has determined its importance.
See: Heroic Beasts, Anub'arak, TLK, Sarth +3, Vezax, nearly every single tank death fight this whole expansion.
I believe you guys are just flat wrong.
I agree it worked that way in Lich King. Tanks were often at risk of dying within 2-3 boss hits, often faster than a heal could land. In that environment anything that can prolong your life at all is very valuable, and by extension anything not related to reliably prolonging your life (parry for instance) is not attractive.
This is also something we have set out to change. I understand that you personally don't believe we will change it, and since your vision of what the world will be like is at odds with our vision, it is unsurprising that the changes we make to bring about our vision might not make sense to you.
But if healer mana doesn't matter, our whole combat design collapses. Healers won't value cheap heals. Since mana won't constrain them, overhealing will be common, so they may start devaluing crit as well. DPS specs won't value talents that help them stay alive. And the only way to challenge raids will once again be to clobber tanks so hard that any missed heals will result in tank death. It doesn't have to be this way, and in fact it wasn't this way for much of the game. We were watching the new Nefarian fights and recalling the old Nefarian fights where, in the absence of a berserk timer, the fight could really last for a long time -- maybe 20 minutes or more -- if you had a lot of deaths. The tank wasn't in much danger of RNG dying, so as long as the healers didn't run out of mana, the raid could keep the fight going nearly indefinitely.
As we said above, in the beta raid tests, druids were easy to keep alive and the other tanks were dying in two hits. That wasn't the design we were going for, so we brought the druid down to the other tank levels and adjusted the damage accordingly.
So basically, all the changes so far are aimed at helping move us toward a design that does not rely on Mimiron-style, massive damage that forces your tanks and healers to get absolutely everything right, or watch as tanks die, then the raid dies. While as a tank, I've grown used to this kind of design (à la Soul Reaper), I can't say I'll miss it very much. And I do look forward to heroics that are slightly less grueling to tank and raid groups that care less what class you tank with than whether or not you know how to generate threat and help your healers keep you alive.
We will see how it all ultimately shakes out, of course. If the changes to Bear Form and Heart of the WIld end up balancing tank health and the cooldown changes make their survivability more even, we could be entering a pretty positive phase for tanking. At any rate, we're probably entering the phase of tanking where no one taunts off of Fox until he apologizes, which should be fun for us all.
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm will destroy Azeroth as we know it; nothing will be the same! In WoW Insider's Guide to Cataclysm, you can find out everything you need to know about WoW's third expansion (available Dec. 7, 2010), from brand new races to revamped quests and zones. Visit our Cataclysm news category for the most recent posts having to do with the Cataclysm expansion.Filed under: Druid, Paladin, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, News items, Death Knight, Cataclysm






Reader Comments (Page 4 of 5)
Rob Oct 29th 2010 3:11PM
@Alchemist
It takes away the feel of uniqueness. I don't want to press a button which is just different icon from another ability in another class. Bears used to have a very strong feel. They had a very unique set of armor. They had the same defense issues as other tanks but we itemized differently, and geared differently, we geared for stamina and 'tanked with our face'. We had different abilities, roars, etc.
Bears were fun, but pretty challenging, due to a lack of AOE ability. Now we have the same tanking 'oh snap' button as everyone else. We have the same armor as rogues. We don't have defense to worry about (which was part of being a tank imo). We have a limited AOE just like every other tank. We have a charge, just like warriors. All of this homogenization has just made me wonder what is unique about being a bear, that i can't find in, say, a warrior, which has way more tanking abilities and CDs.
I'm pretty much decided that my first cata toon is going to be a warrior. I really want to shelf my druid. With all the changes, they just don't seem fun any more to me.
Scyan Oct 29th 2010 4:47PM
@Alchemistmerlin
Uniqueness is fun in and of itself. Take Starcraft as an example. It made waves when it first came out because players could choose between three different factions with unique units, build styles, and play styles but in the end each was equally viable and balanced with the other. It made for huge reply value and very entertaining matchups, as each faction approached things from different angles and appealed to different players.
Most other RTS games just reskin the units between factions and call it a day. The reason? Making things unique and balanced is HARD. It's not impossible, but it seems that WoWs designers have decided that it's not worth the effort (and not worth the QQ they have to put up with when they get it wrong) to try and make things unique. Better to have things balanced and somewhat boring than radically unique and risk imbalance.
Snuzzle Oct 29th 2010 4:53PM
Limited AOE? Um, really? Were you playing the same bear as I was, where all I had to do was bind Maul to Swipe and get RSI by mashing that one macro? :P Bears were miles ahead on AOE threat for quite a while now. In fact, in vanilla Swipe was an absolute monster, you literally had only to Swipe once and the mobs were simply glued to you. That's how high the threat coefficient was. Of course, it was balanced because everyone said "lol bear, get in the back and heal me nub." Once bears were viable tanks it was promptly changed.
I do agree though, I sometimes miss the feel of bears in TBC which made me fall in love with the class. The whole "I have huge armor and hitpoints, I'm a big furry waddling meat shield, come try me!" attitude. It was awesome, it was unique, it was fun. I didn't like the fact that we were so reliant on our healers, though, as we had no real cooldowns to speak of. Surv Instincts didn't exist, Frenzied Regen restored a flat and laughable amount of HP, and Barkskin wasn't castable in forms. I had a permanently clenched face while tanking difficult fights, watching my health yo-yo like crazy and knowing there was nothing I could do about it.
Ah well. Being a bear does still feel different from my warrior, and each of those feels different still from my paladin. The differences are just getting less and less with each passing expansion, and I wonder how far they can go before the only difference between say, a DK and a warrior is the DK has glowy blue eyes and different spell names.
Rob Oct 29th 2010 5:34PM
@Snuzzle Remember when swipe had 3 targets, and maul had one? Yeah, that's what i meant. Whereas warriors had thunderclap, which wasn't great, but better than nothing. ANd of course paladines were king of AOE threat. DKs didn't exist back then. Back then if you were a bear and wanted to say tank the whelps in onyxia you were tab targetting quite a bit. Its better now that we have a 360 spread.
Jorges Oct 29th 2010 1:35PM
Well, these changes (if they stay like this) will become important at level 85. Blizzard is not actually nerfing or buffing anything, they're balancing things out. That's what Beta testing is for.
No point on complaining or cheering about them right now. We're not even 81 on live servers :)
Jorges Oct 29th 2010 1:40PM
Forgot to mention that, besides it being beta testing, I don't like how blizzard is making all the tanks almost the same. If things stay like this at 85, I'm changing my bear spec for pvp and making a warrior. At least I could show off my armor and weapons.
mosiah Oct 29th 2010 1:56PM
I have a pally and dk tank at 80 a warrior and bear in their mid 60s working their way to 80, I enjoy tanking but with everthing getting streamlined playing a Druid tank seems the best option giving you more secondary job options and getting more bang for your buck out of a level 80, I mean rdps mdps healing and tanking all rolled into one toon with 3 talent tres yes please.
dwilliston Oct 29th 2010 2:08PM
they just need to buff prot paladins agro for the first 10 seconds of a pull. Mostly for aoe. So hard to get stuff to stick to me now with these mages and warlocks that instantly aoe. Perhaps they don't need to fix the prot pallies agro, maybe dps should be smarter and know what changed and how to react. I hate mages and warlocks.
nomoremisterniceguy Oct 29th 2010 2:23PM
Start with your biggest damage dealer first. Then slap down your aoe and pick up trash..
Tabasa Oct 29th 2010 4:23PM
From what I've heard from the dungeons in Cata, the people who instantly shove out maximum AoE dps the second a pull starts are going to be lying around wondering why they're dead a few seconds later. It's not going to be the tank's fault.
It used to be a given that DPS waited a few seconds for tanks to get aggro on things. It will be again once people realize it's necessary.
Onikuma Oct 29th 2010 2:07PM
Paladins have several defenses against magic in the form of cooldowns. Divine Shield, resistences aura, LOH, word of glory, ardent defender, and sanctuary are all ways a pally could mitigate the damage from magic damage.
Oteo Oct 29th 2010 2:08PM
Wrath of the Licking is what happens when my dog sees me for the first time when I'm visiting from school...
I miss my dog. :l
nomoremisterniceguy Oct 29th 2010 2:21PM
"The ability to destroy planets is insignificant next to the power of the force" Darth Vader, Pissing match on the Death Star, A New Hope.
I guess it doesn't really matter about the defensive capabilities, as long as we still have a lot of armour, hp, and mitigation to take the beating. It will come down to Threat generation, and i can't wait to try my druid out on the new content.
It will make learning to tank on a warrior pally and DK much smoother though.
Downhere Nov 5th 2010 11:40AM
The biggest tanking change that people have failed to mention is for the dps classes. Once again, CC is going to be in effect, and dps classes will have to learn to let the tank get aggro before charging in with instant-aoe's. Finally, some resemblance of vanilla-style tanking, which I loved.
Neirin Oct 29th 2010 2:22PM
The only fight I've done that really "required" a specific type of tank was when Sarth 3d was progression material and Unholy DKs were the only ones with the CDs to survive the breaths. Of course, less than a month later after getting gear, my guild downed 3D with a druid tank and then with a pally tank (we didn't have many good warriors, but I'm sure one would have worked).
idk, I just don't buy the whole "optimal tank" thing.
nomoremisterniceguy Oct 29th 2010 2:25PM
agreed. Nor the whole off tank main tank bs. Both tanks have to be skilled or its a waste of time.
Darasen Oct 29th 2010 3:05PM
Isn't part of the reason Bears need more HP is the lack of a shield? I do not play a bear so perhaps there are other things that compensate as well.
Semi off topic: Tanking is really under represented on Wowinsider, there should be a column specifically dedicated to tanking in all it's forms like there kind of is for healing. (Raid RX)
MightyZombie Oct 29th 2010 3:22PM
@Snuzzle
Yeah, we bears DO in fact have a Last Stand (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12975/last-stand). Ours is called Frenzied Regeneration (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=22842/frenzied-regeneration) and it has a heal attached to it (which you can glyph away if you don't like). You should really check it out.
Shrike Oct 29th 2010 3:32PM
Yay.
Now everyone has the same Shield Wall, everyone has the same health, and prot warriors *NOT* in BiS gear still do half the damage and threat output everyone else does, and one of the only little things that made prot warriors unique has been nerfed into oblivion.
Wonderful.
WTB *any* way to establish initial threat before trigger-happy dps start AoEing.
Matthew Oct 29th 2010 3:45PM
You can make Fox apologize by disabling his 'Fade' and 'Dispersion' ability. Make him take a screenshot with it OFF the action bar!