Drama Mamas: Dealing with absent RP guildies
by Robin Torres 
Oct 29th 2010 at 6:00PM
This week's is a long one, so let's get right to it.
Dear Drama Mamas,
I belong to a small roleplaying guild on a fairly heavily populated server. Two of our guild leaders have recently retired, and the discussion that followed seems to have opened up a particularly ugly can of worms. There are a lot of complicated drama subsets that are going on at the moment, but I fear I may have started the one that's now bothering me the most.
Previous to our guild leaders retiring, we had a few incidents of members who had been very active suddenly disappear with no word of why or when/if to expect them back. (We have a forum for the guild, so the means of communication are readily available). We have a very strong policy of RL > the game; but as a small, close-knit guild, I feel that someone disappearing impacts guild members both in story lines and in the way they feel OOCly.
I recently had an experience where a previously active, involved guild member, who seemed to get along with everyone quite well, disappeared for a while and then came back. It turned out she was having family problems, and we all were understanding of this. Then, she disappeared again with no note as to why or for how long.
Eventually I spotted her characters online and whispered her after noticing that all of her characters had been removed from the guild after a "cleanout." Cleanouts are announced ahead of time on the forums, where it is explained that anyone inactive on both the game and the forums for over a certain amount of time would be removed. And if those players showed up again, they can simply whisper an officer to be re-added. I explained what was up, and assured her there were no hard feelings. A couple weeks later her characters still hadn't been added, and it turned out another guild member had given her the same talk I had. But she had instead decided to join a different guild.
I have no problems with that. In the past our members have been very open when they decide that they'd rather raid more heavily or run with a different RP guild, and we've been understanding and supportive. She still has yet to say anything to anyone, and she had characters deeply involved in the stories of just about every active guild member, including myself. Part of me remembers that she was a wonderful friend and wants to treat it as though she has done no wrong, but another part of me is hurt, and knows others in the guild were hurt as well.
In the forums, we were discussing the shrinking size of our guild, what to do about it, and who was now leading the guild. Still feeling the sting of the drama above, I brought up my opinion that if a guild member knows they're quitting the game or taking an extended break, it would be polite of them to tell us. No need to say why or exactly how long, just a quick, "I'm quitting WoW, no hard feelings, you may RP my characters as being dead/missing/away on a very long, distant quest."
Shortly after this, a member who had been silent for a long time (two months) made a post within that thread explaining that she had not been playing the game or on the forums because of her ailing father. I have no problems with this, Mamas. I am more than happy that she's doing the right thing and taking care of her father over playing a computer game. That's common sense. And now she has informed us of what's up, so we don't worry too much about her (and keep her father in our thoughts) and know that she isn't, in fact, going to be in-game.
What bothered me about the post, though, was that she went into great detail about what was wrong with her father and how his condition affected him, and how they were caring for him. Tone is a dangerous thing in forum posts, but from the wording I fear she may feel somehow offended that I was upset that people were leaving without so much as an "adios." The discussion on the original topic has ceased entirely. I'm not sure if it's because the guild leaders are discussing the topic privately or that no one (including myself) can think of a polite way to react to someone who is, in essence, a stranger telling them all of this and then steer back toward the subject while still being respectful. Said player has also left the guild, which makes approaching her in-game even more awkward.
Mamas, am I causing more drama by asking for communication?
Yours,
Boggled and Lonely
Drama Mama Lisa: Achieving game-life balance with a game like WoW that dazzles players with XP, achievements and socializing can be a twitchy process. Throw in the pressures of endgame raiding or the intrigues and personal dynamics of roleplaying, and you have the potential for real disaster.Let me be clear: I am not advocating that you should stop taking the real-world needs of your guildmates and fellow players seriously. I like your emphasis on taking care of real-life business first and admire the care with which you separate in-character and OOC needs while recognizing how they intersect and influence one another.
That said, Boggled and Lonely, you've brought much of your current boggled loneliness upon yourself. It's entirely possible to dwell too much on in-game issues, and I smell a whiff of obsession in the depth of your anxiety.
These guildmates you've written about have done exactly what's been asked of them. That's the danger of giving people options; they may choose to use them. If you "clean out" your roster, it's inevitable that some members who get removed will feel hurt or will take the opportunity to look for another guild home for whatever reasons. If you ask members to post up if they're having real-life issues, some will inevitably take the opportunity to unload some very real, very pressing issues and feelings. For you to pick at the scabs caused by either of these explicitly requested actions is, in fact, to cause drama.
B&L, you have to let these things go. Immediately. Without further discussion. Without further posting. Without further whispers, or emails or private messages. Whatever else you may do, leave these particular players alone. You've been clear with them, and they've been clear with you. Don't beat a dead horse, and don't cause drama.
[/editorial hat on] Furthermore, because I'm now in this post for a second time in my editorial capacity, I have the opportunity to look ahead, and I simply must reinforce a point Robin makes more lightly in just a moment: You're not a guild officer. If you're not a cook, you have no business in the kitchen -- so please, no side conversations. If you have concerns about guild business, talk to an officer in private, not in a public channel or forum (especially since you already recognize that your efforts, however well-intentioned, could be making others uncomfortable). [/editorial hat off -- Robin, don't kill me for swiping an "extra turn."]
In terms of addressing your broader guild systems, your guild should get rid of policies that are pushing players away. Look no further than the roster clean-outs. Let's be real: Nobody likes to be dumped, despite any pseudo-friendly claims of "we're just a whisper away." Getting dumped sucks. No matter how many times the guild smiles, waves and points to the so-called open door, booting members graphically demonstrates a lack of patience for their real-life situations. The guild is saying one thing and doing another.
If experience shows that dropped characters and storylines are interfering with the guild's roleplaying as a whole, set clear participation benchmarks. Officers should proactively stay in touch with members driving key storylines who're experiencing extended absences. The guild might or might not decide to cut people whose non-participation continues. However the guild decides to handle it, though, it's important that you allow the officers to handle it and not try seize the reins yourself in a situation that's already proving to be uncomfortable.
Drama Mama Robin: I have a confession to make. I was very excited about creating and hanging out in <B.L.O.G.>, our roleplaying guild, at first. But it's just this kind of drama that made it difficult for me to keep it up. You and your guild have very common beliefs in what I've seen of the RP community -- along with many unwritten rules -- that are a bit more real-life-unfriendly than non-RP guilds. Yes, I'm generalizing from my experiences and your letter, and no, I don't think this applies to all RP guilds. It's obvious to me, however, that there are many guilds like this and that's what I want to address. Let me break it down into what it's like on the side of the absent guildie:
- Communication isn't always easy. Of course it would be better to log on to the game and/or the forums to notify and explain an absence. But if your father is ailing and you have to take care of him, it can be extremely hard to start that conversation online. Many people, including myself, would like to complete our physical world duties offline and then return to a guild that is understanding.
- Guilt is icky. When dealing with serious issues in the physical world, logging on to WoW should be an escape. If you are inundated with well-intentioned questions and not-so-well-intentioned "should haves" and "next times," traveling to Azeroth ends up being a guilt trip instead of a stress-reducing trip.
- Do you really need more policies? These unwritten rules, established systems, strict guidelines -- they're harshing my RP buzz, man. Call me a grumpy hippie, but it's hard to be creative when you're worried you're going to break another rule. Strict attendance policies (that are written) make sense in a raiding guild that relies on certain roles arriving at certain times to coordinate certain abilities to complete a certain goal. Exploring characters and storylines should be unfettered by so many restrictions, in my artsy-fartsy opinion.
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with a little help and insight from the Drama Mamas. Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas@wow.com. Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
jfofla Oct 29th 2010 6:11PM
Man,
RP Drama is complicated!
Aaron Oct 29th 2010 6:33PM
In my experience RP is solely drama.
LynMars Oct 29th 2010 6:45PM
No more complicated than any other kind. Talk to people. Be polite. Understand RL comes first. Work around complications.
RP is collaborative storytelling. You need other people to make it work, otherwise you're just writing your own fanfic set in Azeroth (or where ever). Other people means communication and some basic guidelines to keep everyone on the same page so no one is left behind, or skipping ahead, without some way to work others in and out as necessary when Stuff happens.
Margalith Oct 29th 2010 6:23PM
Always a tough issue. RP tends to lead to 'unwritten' commitments that need to faced squarely, otherwise people will feel hurt. No disrespect Robin and Lisa, but I didn't get the 'whiff of obsession' or any sense she was making unreasonable demands. All she wanted was a clear sign that when a person was leaving for a time to simply communicate that if they are able to. Most guilds I've been in have policy about that. You don't have to go into detail, but you do have to inform people. This is especially important for RP, because generally people don't like to move on with stories without everyone being on the same page.
roseclown Oct 29th 2010 6:55PM
This.
Sometimes, it is hard to rp a character if a key player in a story drops off. It can stall your entire rp, making it so you can't play your character.
Though I do think B&L needs to stop worrying about the policies. Leave that to GM's and Officers.
Hollow Leviathan Oct 29th 2010 7:20PM
It's just yet another symptom of people not taking online relationships seriously, for some reason. They build up the same or stronger emotional connections that you get by physically meeting, but online meetings have low social prestige and as such they don't give it a second thought when of course they'd say something if it was offline.
It's painful and thoughtless and all we can do is be aware and raise awareness, or sit quietly being socially disregarded while we wait for the world to catch up.
Sleutel Oct 30th 2010 10:48AM
What I *did* get, that I feel they both missed, is that this guild is shrinking. People don't start leaving a guild that is working properly. They leave because you're not giving them what they want out of the game. And it's possible that they're just not saying goodbye because, well, can you think of a polite way to tell your friends that you're just not having fun playing with them anymore?
If a significant number of people are leaving your guild, and they're not ones you're glad to see the back of, it's time to take a serious and objective look at the way you're running things. Because, clearly, you're doing something wrong.
Kay Oct 30th 2010 5:25PM
I'm going to have to agree with Margalith on this one. There's a big line between being a demanding guildmate, and simply suggesting that if someone is going to take a leave of absence they need to tell people. This is equally true of raiding guilds, and RP guilds.
An example from some Non-WoW, chat-based RP. Awhile back a character engaged one of my characters in a romantic plotline, which was fine. They met up, hit it off in character, etc. The player then vanishes for two months with absolutely no notification. When they came back, I was RPing as though they chose to avoid and not contact my character. They weren't pleased about that, but I explained to them that if they'd have simply dropped me an email or a forum PM saying "Hey, I've got so-and-so going on so I won't be around for two months". Details weren't even necessary, and maybe some brief interaction summaries could have been done in the meantime.
If the character vanishes though, my character has to react somehow. Is this player even ever coming back? I need char motivation to run with, and if someone doesn't have the consideration to make a minimal effort, that needs to be "this character has disappeared".
And that feels ugly and annoying from a writing standpoint.
Basically, unless the reason you were gone for a few months is your computer exploding (which happens, it's happened to me), there's no reason at all the people you play with aren't worth the 2-3 minutes of your time to notify about an extended absence.
LynMars Oct 29th 2010 6:39PM
On another non-WoW RP forum I used to play on, we also had a "leave of absence" thread, where we just had to say "RL issues/busy/uninsterested/etc. can't play now." A clarification was, they didn't need to give details, just a heads-up so thread GMs and fellow players could know where people were. Perhaps a clarification of the "no need for details, just drop us a line you'll be afk so we don't worry!" variety is needed for this guild?
In my main RP guild, we all know what the basic form of IC communication is. We have a method for distinguishing between IC and OOC disappearances, since RL is first and we can just assume "X is off on assignment in Y shire and out of the loop for now" when someone goes offline awhile. We're small, so we have weekly meetings, IC to touch base, shares stories and info, etc. BUT no one is forced to attend (though if late, come up with a colorful IC excuse, or the character gets 'extra duty' which I don't think I've ever seen RPed out beyond the sighing and grumbling that'd come with more chores).
There are ways to gloss over folks, or write them out if necessary due to RL. One of my RP buddies has a fried computer at the moment, no knowing when he'll be back. People ask my character about her husband, and her response is "he's working on clean up in Northrend with the Argent Crusade." It works for now, and no need for many more details than that. We can work out the rest when he gets back in game.
I wasn't directly involved in B.L.O.G. on Shadow Council, but knew quite a few people who were; many expected some guild events, things like IC meetings every so often for people to get together and RP, but it was cut kinda loose. There weren't clear ideas at first of if guild chat was meant to be IC or not, etc. Many of the upset feelings there, I think, came from lack of clear information. Particularly because it attracted so many new RPers who could have used some help and guidance on characters, plot, etc. But it also grew and got overwhelming rather fast, it seemed.
Like my old LARP GM used to say, herding RPers can be like herding cats, and takes some patience. Many of them do like some guidelines to keep the group on the same page as far as expectations. It shouldn't be the strict rules of a raiding group by any means (as that's often counterproductive, particularly the larger the group). But people like being on the same page to keep the RP rolling smoothly, as it's a social activity, and so knowing the basic idea of how to act and react within that group's culture can be important.
If people feel like there's no story with their current guild, they will leave to find other groups who play together and build stories and interact as characters, as well as grouping up to clear instances together. People like having the ability to find others to RP with safely (particularly on realms without a lot of random open walk-up RP), events with friends, a way for their characters to meet others IC, and an idea that officers are involved and committed to helping them tell their stories as well as involve them in their own tales. It's as give and take as a raid guild, the energy focus turned to creativity as opposed to number-crunching (though the two can overlap; I've known some wonderful RP-Raid-PvP guilds in my time)
Guild events should not be mandatory, but the option to go should be there, and then maybe have a place on the guild forum to post chat logs and stories that spring from them can help to create a sense of shared RP and storytelling, which is what many look for in a RP guild (otherwise they can just write fiction about their own characters, right?). Having IC meetings to discuss plot and upcoming things (with OOC clarification in whatever channel's used for that) can help give people something to do, particularly if they're shy about jumping into RP with a new group--or for the first time at all.
B&L should probably bring their concerns and ideas up in private to the guild officers if they want to foster a comfortable RP environment in the guild and keep it growing, as a place where people can come to find interaction and activities as ways of meeting new characters ICly as well as the players OOCly, without feeling like they need to spill their guts when they mention they (and their alts) are afk awhile, or feeling penalized when they do disappear thanks to RL aggro; it's not progression, so how long does it take for an activity check to boot members anyway?
Bobfish Oct 29th 2010 6:42PM
In my experience RP Drama is far worse then raid/loot drama in guilds. The latter you can brush off most the time as one or two people being douches. In RP guilds when there's drama it can be quite the tangled web.
I remember one guild I was in that was heavy RP, which did a bit of raiding as well, pretty much imploded because the GL was trying to seduce one of the officers and let her have her own way all the time, (for instance I was unoffically 'banned' from raiding because I got into a RP argument with said player). I was lucky, that was all she did to me. She made a lot of other people's lives difficult because she was 'incharacter', but behind the scenes undermining them. The lines get blurred all the time in RP guilds and it's sometimes only after when the dust settles you learn what was going on.
I think Robin's mostly right here, I think there is only so far you can take clear communication, some people are always going to get offended. I think the person with the ill father probably needs some more RL friends to talk with what must be a difficult situation. The OP probably shouldn't take it personally, people will always need to quit for different reasons but it sounds like that person just needed to rage a bit at someone.
LynMars Oct 29th 2010 6:49PM
Sounds like people in that guild couldn't separate IC and OOC and that caused drama. Which is always a danger, as some will try to get away with crap and claim it to be "in character" when no, it's them being a jerk.
Mechanics like loot and raid composition should remain strictly in the OOC realm, characters can try to seduce whoever they want IC, but the officers still have to do their jobs the rest of the time OOC.
Rob Oct 29th 2010 6:44PM
I don't know about RP, but when I took a more active hand in our guild (largish, at the time), I tended to lead by writing policies. I don't think that really worked out well. You should have some guild policies written down, but I had a novel-sized constitution (i felt). It didn't work. Nobody read it, nobody followed it, nobody cared. And it's too much work. At the risk of trivializing things, its just a game, and if its too much work, then people will go elsewhere for their fun. That may be what happens here. If the guild isn't fun, people won't log in.
Gendou Oct 29th 2010 6:58PM
By and large, my casual PvE guild has a single rule: "Don't be an asshat."
However, when it comes to raiding, there are a lot of other written rules, and I wrote most (if not all) of them.
Yes, getting people to read them can be a pain (whether an applicant has read the raiding rules is a required question on our guild application), and there's no real way to force people to do it. But better to have them in place then to not have them in place.
Because when push comes to shove and you're forced to lay down the law, you want to have something written down that you can point to and say, "The rules are right there in black and white." Ignorance is no excuse. Every raider is asked to read the rules, so if they don't, that's their own damned fault, not mine.
Yes, it's "just a game," and being an officer or GM isn't for everyone. But for those in a position of responsibility, part of the trust the other members place in you is to keep things running smoothly so that they can enjoy the game to the fullest extent. And part of that is having enforceable rules that apply to everyone equally.
Rob Oct 29th 2010 7:16PM
Hmm, I didn't say that well. I do agree in having something written down, just don't go overboard.
We also have a '3 months of no login = character removal' policy. This is just to keep under the limit and to make life easier for us. We also try to part on good terms with people, and tell them the door is always open (many people leave for other guilds to go raid, then go back to our guild when the raids stop).
Gendou Oct 29th 2010 6:50PM
Being involved in both a casual Raiding guild and a casual RP guild, sometimes I think that RP Drama is a lot more difficult to deal with than raiding drama.
With raiding, you have a time and energy commitment that people have invested into the raid, and with that personal stake, drama will erupt.
With RP, you have a similar time and energy commitment, but it is coupled with an emotional investment that isn't typically present with raiding. Because of that, the drama that seems to stem from RP situations tends to hit a lot harder, at least in my experience.
Personally, I think that Lisa and Robin gave good advice overall. B&L did seem to be obsessing over the comings and goings of their guild-mates, current and former. That's a danger with RP, where the emotional investment in the characters and their storylines creates an environment where such attachments are par for the course.
One thought, though, is that Robin might consider that different RP guilds have different rules, just like raiding guilds. A hardcore raiding guild might have a hardcore attendance policy, while a casual raiding guild would have a much more relaxed policy. Similarly, a hardcore RP guild might make attendance at certain events a requirement, while a more casual RP guild would permit people to come and go as they please.
Overall, it seems clear that B&L needs to take a step back and let the officers do their job when it comes to managing the guild. If there is a rule about leaving without notice, then wait an adequate period and write those people out of the story. It's on their own heads. If there is no such rule, then stop worrying and either move on to another story or work around the missing person until they choose to return, if they choose to return.
In RP as in Life: The only person responsible for your happiness is yourself.
roseclown Oct 29th 2010 6:51PM
As someone just starting a rping goblin guild and getting ready for Cataclsym (For Her Tallest! For Mida Silvertongue! DOWN WITH GALLYWIX!), this definitely was a article that I am going to bring up to my fellow shareholders (GMs), just as something to consider.
Right now, we have discussed and plan to implement a policy that 'three months without notice, and your character will be removed to keep rosters clean. You can whisper to re-join.' However, we have the 'tell us and you will stay on' policy from the get-go. We all have crazy lives and drama, heck, one of shareholders (gm's) recently said she wouldn't be on as much for a bit due to rl drama. We all get this, which is why we are three gm's running things to catch up when the other has problems.
However, we stress communication from the beginning. Our applications are long, if we have any issues we get in game and talk with the person over those things to make sure everything is cool, and already have a fairly active forums (and our goblins aren't even made yet!).
I think the important thing is setting up the rules before things like this happens. In our guild: You know you have three months of inactivity to tell you are going to be gone before we gkick. At any time you can pop on and tell a GM, or post on the forums, and we will be fine with it and no gkick will happen. There is no dependence on random cleanouts and telling people before that, or having to get yourself up and out. Though there may be some drama over this, I can't help but think anyone who causes drama over a rule that really has no impact on them should they want to be in the guild (as it would just take a whisper to rejoin, or to stay on the roster) wouldn't be someone we would want in the guild in the first place.
We all have drama, in rl and out. The thing is to seek out mature people who can handle rules and who will not freak out on people for enforcing a reasonable rule. Or, in more realistically (as we all freak out from time to time), be mature enough to apologize after freaking out, and everyone else be mature enough to accept the apology.
...tall orders are tall. DX Ah, I am still hopeful that things will be handles well, and that no guild-breaking drama will get out of hand. Right now, things are looking good. But I am a worry-wart.
But as for B&L, I do think she should stop worrying. That job is for Officers and GMs. Or as we call 'em in our guild, Sappers and Shareholders. Also, seek out rp events and push forward to expand your circle. Make new friends! Rp new exciting stories! Or maybe roll a alt somewhere to rp some fresh and new stories to take your mind of things for a bit. :)
Mel Oct 30th 2010 3:14AM
/salute
For Mida!
Trinea Oct 30th 2010 5:21AM
Definitely looking forward to Cata and the guild to fully form. I've already got my application in and approved (yey!) for ! This guild is going to be super awesome! ~happy dance~
Al Oct 29th 2010 7:47PM
I'm thinking she IS a officer, she didn't say she wasn't.
fearinlight Oct 29th 2010 7:53PM
I thin 93.24% of this websites population will agree with the following comment
"lawl rp"