Lichborne: The lowdown on diseaseless blood tanking

With everyone getting used to blood being the sole tanking tree, combined with all the new tanking style changes already here in patch 4.0.1 (and more to come in Cataclysm), we've been working at crunching numbers and figuring out strategies to deal with it all. One of the most interesting new paradigms to come out of this is actually a pretty old one: diseaseless blood. Diseaseless blood DPS did rear its head every once in a while back in the Wrath era, and now it's back for tanking. At both the heroic dungeon and raid levels, death knight tanks all over WoW are reporting diseaseless tanking as a superior playstyle in ease of use, survivability and threat generation.
Why drop the diseases?
There's a few reasons for dropping diseases. To start with, our main defensive strike, Death Strike, no longer depends on diseases. No matter if you have one disease, two diseases, or no diseases up, Death Strike will do the same amount of damage and heal you based not on your damage dealt but your damage taken. Also, Icy Touch no longer provides an extra burst of threat when cast. Finally, disease damage in general is rather small, and with Pestilence only spreading diseases at 50 percent damage, it's even worse for AoE situations. Even beyond that, diseaseless offers some very definite advantages. You'll get earlier snap threat because you're not wasting time casting or refreshing diseases, and you'll get more healing power since you can use that frost and unholy rule to use another Death Strike.
There are some downsides to going the diseaseless route, of course. You do lose the 20 percent attack speed debuff off of Frost Fever, and your Heart Strike and Blood Boil will lose some damage and thereby will lose a little threat. Overall, though, reports from many death tanks report that any long-term threat they might lose from lack of diseases is hardly worth worrying about, since the snap threat at the beginning of the battle makes up for it. In addition, that 20 percent attack speed debuff can be taken care of by another member of the raid in many cases.
How to do it without diseases
A diseaseless build isn't actually too different from a disease-casting build. You'll want to get rid of any points you have in Epidemic, of course, and without the extra disease damage, those points in Blood-Caked Blade start looking a lot less appetizing. Crimson Scourge also loses some luster, though you will probably still want to pick it up for the 40 percent damage on Blood Boil. Otherwise, spec as normal.
For single-target fights, rune spending is pretty easy. Just alternate Death Strike and Heart Strike on the mob, with Rune Strikes when you can. On a boss, you may want to consider throwing up diseases eventually, if only because you might actually be fighting it long enough for the extra long term threat to make a difference. For multi-target attacks, you'll want to throw out Death and Decay first, followed by a quick Blood Boil, then tab through the mobs applying Death Strikes and Rune Strikes to keep your threat up until Death and Decay is ready to cast again.
Will Blizzard freeze out diseaseless tanking?
Of course, while diseaseless tanking gains traction in the community and recruits more and more devoted followers by the day, there's still that group that hangs back and offers words of caution. Diseaseless death knight builds have come and gone in the past, certainly, and every time, Blizzard has eventually made some adjustment to squelch them. This time may be no different.
One can argue, of course, that diseaseless tanking will naturally "go away" at level 81, when Outbreak gives us the option to apply diseases quickly, using no resources and only one GCD. At the same time, it does still have that 1-minute cooldown, so chances are diseaseless blood will still pretty much be diseaseless on most pulls.
If Blizzard decides to nerf diseaseless blood, Death Strike is the most likely target. The healing portion will probably be forever linked to damage taken, but if they wanted, the devs could hook the damage portion to diseases, making diseases mandatory in order to keep threat while keeping Blood Shield up as much as possible. Of course, if they want to go the non-nerf route, it's possible that they could simply buff disease damage for death knight tanks to make the actual threat garnered by casting them not insignificant. There's also the possibility of adding the threat bonus back to Icy Touch, but that might be putting too many threat tools in our arsenal, and Blizzard seems more or less dedicated to making threat something you have to work for in Cataclysm.
So there's a strong argument against getting too comfortable with diseaseless tanking, for sure. Blizzard's shown a pretty solid dedication to making sure death knights use their diseases at all times, and I wouldn't be surprised to see adjustments in game to make diseases a must-use for tanks by patch 4.0.3. We'll probably still see some of the basics of diseaseless tanking stick around and used in tandem with Outbreak, if nothing else, so it probably won't hurt too much to use for the time being. Just don't get too used to it.
Filed under: Death Knight, (Death Knight) Lichborne
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 5)
Valorum Nov 2nd 2010 3:14PM
I have a leveling blood tank, in the low-70's. Is this viable before end-game?
Kuro Nov 2nd 2010 5:05PM
It's working reasonably well in Ramps at 62.... I'm surpised at how much agro I can hold sometimes with D&D, strikes, and the big red explody thing.
DavidC Nov 2nd 2010 8:10PM
"I'm surpised at how much agro I can hold sometimes with D&D, strikes, and the big red explody thing."
More Big Red Explody things ... please! Well Played DK Tank + My Frost Mage + Ramps + Multi-pack pulls = screen covered in yellow floaty numbers.
Level 61, Ramps, circular area between bosses ... tanks got 3 packs + pat and I nearly hit 3k dps ... it almost brought tears to my eyes :-). So for the love of all that is good ... more BB's and D&D and spread the DS love around so I can go balls to the walls AoE DPS ... please :-)
Noyou Nov 2nd 2010 8:42PM
@DavidC
Sir your yellow floaty numbers are delicious. I must ask for that recipe. It's 'to die for' :p
Yeechang Lee Nov 2nd 2010 10:32PM
I, too, am seeing encouraging results with my mid-60s Death Knight tank. Leveling is *full* of "gogogo" moronicity from DPS (And even healers!!!) and, if nothing else, avoiding the GCDs necessary for one or two diseases plus Pestilence means the whole pull can be aggroed onto the tank that much faster.
(Speaking of which, the reason even healers go nuts with demands to the tank to pull lots is because post-4.0.1 leveling healing is just out-of-control overpowered. I know things are balanced around 85 at the moment, but leveling healing really, really needs to be readjusted; it only encourages bad behavior on players' part that will need to be painfully unlearned at 80 and, soon, 85.)
cocoboom Nov 2nd 2010 3:16PM
I wasn't aware that DK tanks can get away with using at most 5 abilities
Revynn Nov 2nd 2010 3:31PM
As a standard rotation, yeah, not much more than 4 or 5 buttons. But that's not to say that they can get away with never using anything else. They've got AMS, IBF, ERW, Ghoul, Dark Command, DRW, Bone Shield. Vampiric Blood, etc. Most DPS rotations center around 4 or 5 buttons that you're spamming on a regular basis. It's when you factor in defensive CD's, DPS CD's, pet control raid support and movement abilities that bars start filling up. Pre-4.0 Holy Paladins are a perfect example of this. The old Holy approach was "Keep beacon up, spam Holy Light". Even then, though, the thing that seperated a decent Holy Pally from a great Holy Pally was how many other things he was doing. Hand of Freedom, Hand of Protection, Lay on Hands, Holy Shock, Sacred Shield, Judgement, Plea, etc.
So yeah, can a DK tank "get away" with using only 5 buttons during a daily random? Sure. Does that fly in a raid environment? No.
Zankoku Nov 2nd 2010 3:17PM
I am part of the "old school" DK tanks. The ones that still put up diseases.
Only time I seem to have issues is in massive AoE frenzies...... oh wait... thats every single trash pull.......
T Nov 2nd 2010 3:19PM
I always prefer to do it without diseases.
sunetos Nov 2nd 2010 3:52PM
Duuuuude.
Garrett Nov 2nd 2010 4:02PM
That's why I use Blessing of Protection no matter how clean that DK looks.
Brixus Nov 2nd 2010 4:07PM
You win an internets!
Daynthebold Nov 2nd 2010 3:20PM
The problem with trying to apply diseases all around is that you have to do it over the course of several GCDs and in today's gogogo AoE zergfests, that's not going to work.
Snap aggro on groups is still king. I, and several other blood tanks I've seen, don't open with D and D but rather drop two Blood Boils as soon as we can, then start plague striking to free up more Blood Boils. It works very well when dealing with AoE happy groups.
The same issue is affecting warriors and their use of the Blood and Thunder talent. While nice on paper, warriors simply don't have time to Rend first and then Thunderclap to spread the Rend. They Thunderclap, then hit Shockwave to generate as much snap aggro as possible.
Epitaph Nov 2nd 2010 3:24PM
You beat me too it :D -- Guess my post will just have to re-iterate what you are saying
Mayhew Nov 2nd 2010 3:46PM
As a warrior main with a blood DK alt, I see a lot of similarity between Blood and Thunder and disease-tanking. For an initial aoe pull, the diseaseless equivalent of Thunderclap + Shockwave is far more reliable. However, when you have a stream of adds joining the fray a few at a time (such as Onyixa whelps or the trash at the beginning of ICC), I find the Blood and Thunder/Pestilence option to be a far better way of grabbing aggro. The cooldown on Shockwave is probably more akin to DnD than Blood Boil, but otherwise the comparison seems pretty close.
Daynthebold Nov 2nd 2010 4:34PM
No worries. At least you gave credit! ^_^b
Also, I have a warrior tank as well and let me tell you, trying to Blood and Thunder the waves and gauntlet in Halls of Reflection was hell. I did much better when I simply Thunderclapped on availability and timed my Shockwaves to coincide with the beginning of as many groups as possible.
Mayhew Nov 2nd 2010 6:19PM
Yes, I wouldn't use Blood and Thunder to get initial aggro on HoR waves. I think it's more useful when extra adds are trickling in 1 and 2 at a time while you are already tanking a group. I just like the scenario where you are automatically applying dots to each of the newcomers, beyond the base threat of thunderclap. It would be like the equivalent of combining Pestilence and Blood Boil.
HeathenFrog Nov 2nd 2010 3:21PM
The only thing I don't like about tanking right now, is having to apply the diseases THEN having to pestilence/BB for AoE pulls. It takes to long to get through that rotation, and by the time it's done, the rest of the group has pulled threat from other mobs.
Currently, the 30 second CD on DnD is just too long for the current 5 man content, as we are able to finish off groups of mobs faster than we can cast it on the next group, thus resulting in the above issue of trying to mitigate/control threat in AoE scenarios. -- I know a lot of this comes down to the group you are in and them attacking the same mobs/using threat management abilities, but in my experience, that is very rare due to the "get through this as fast as possible" attitude of groups in game at the moment.
Cata needs to hurry up and get here so these pushy DPS stop pulling groups themselves and then expecting the tank to be able to manage it when our best AoE threat gen is DnD and it's on CD. I know BB can be used in between CD's, but I would rather use BB when it's most effective (with diseases up etc..)
I'm sure that once the expansion hits and 5 man content takes longer to go through, it won't be an issue (after the rogues, mages, and other DPS classes learn that rushing = wiping).
In the meantime though, let the tank do the tanking.
matticus Nov 2nd 2010 3:21PM
"At the same time, it does still have that 1-minute cooldown, so chances are diseaseless blood will still pretty much be diseaseless on most pulls."
How many pulls in Cata will go quicker than 1 minute? (At least while we are Tier 11 and below)
Kurash Nov 2nd 2010 3:37PM
I was thinking this too. Basically, if I see that something has a one-minute CD I assume I'll be able to use it pretty much every pull.