Scattered Shots: Reforging ranged weapons?

Here at Scattered Shots, Inc., I sometimes talk about the latest hunter news, sometimes make guides for specific areas of gameplay, sometimes discuss philosophy and sometimes just have a good time. But every now and then, I like to spout off on what I think would be a totally awesome idea to improve the hunter experience. My track record on this is not terribly good. From pet collars to pistols, I don't think any of my brilliance has been implemented. But there's always next time -- and next time may just be this time.
I think we should be able to reforge our bows into guns, our guns into crossbows, and every variation thereof. Keep all the stats identical, but just let us flip a switch and change the ranged weapon type. Don't like the sound of guns? No problem! Want to actually make use of your racial bonus? Now you can!
Join me after the cut for some discussion of why it's needed, and how I'd implement it if I were named Lord High Tyrant and Awesomeness Master of WoW Design.
The racial bonuses
We learned at the BlizzCon 2010 Q&A panels that racials are not likely to change beyond the slight tweaks that we've already seen. This directly impacts troll and dwarven hunters when it comes to ranged weapon choices. Dwarves enjoy a 1 percent increased crit chance with guns, while trolls get that 1 percent crit with bows. The racials make these the races of choice for hunters. As a result, dwarves really want to use guns, and trolls really want to use bows.
In fact, for dwarven hunters this racial is the only DPS gain racial they have. If they can't use a gun, their race contributes nothing at all to their damage. Compare this to the worgen, whose damage racial is a flat 1 percent crit chance to everything -- ranged, melee, healing, whatever.
The current solution
This competition over ranged weapon type isn't new (though I remember back in the day when the racial was a five-point increase in weapon skill). Dwarves have always preferred guns and trolls have always preferred bows, and if they didn't get their preferred weapon type, they were effectively losing their racial bonus.
To compensate, we tend to get a mixture of bows and guns at entry-level content, but typically the best ranged weapon available is a crossbow. This way, instead of one race getting screwed, they both are. This certainly removes favoritism, but it also removes our racial bonuses -- which frankly really stinks.
One of the developer comments at the Q&A was this (paraphrased):
Now, I don't think it's necessary for game balance that every single available race be equally optimized for any given class. Elves and dwarves and worgen don't all need to be equal. But honestly here, flavor is the only reason you would not make your Alliance hunter a worgen? If loot design assures that you'll never get your big hunter racial advantage if you have the best weapon in the game, why wouldn't you flock to the race that lets you get both the best weapon and your racial bonus?We do want basic balance, though. We don't want to create the sense where, if you're not a particular race, you're doing it wrong.
The reforging solution
There are several solutions to this problem. One would be to make equivalent gun and bows for every level of content. I get how this is not appealing -- that's a lot more loot to include. Another would be to change the racial abilities, and after BlizzCon '09, I thought this would happen, but it now appears that it will not.
Then we have reforging. While it's not the purpose for which reforging was brought into the game, I think it fits this solution perfectly. Instead of reforging the stats on your bow or gun or crossbow, what if instead you could just transform it into a different ranged weapon type? The stats would remain identical and you would not be able to reforge the stats then.
Alternatively, I suppose you could make this an engineering schematic, the ability to transform weapons. Or you could just make a ranged weapon NPC who exchanges them for you and perhaps charges you some badges. But I think it works better when you can just visit the reforging NPC.
Ranged weapon models
An obvious downside of reforging ranged weapon types is that it would require three different models for every ranged weapon introduced into the game. But I don't think that's necessarily the case.
I think that reforged weapons could easily all share a single model. So if the awesome bow Hartseeker drops but you're a dwarf (or just appreciate fine engineering), you could reforge it into Reforged Hartseeker Gun -- but now you're stuck with the plain model that all reforged guns share.
This could actually reduce the number of models required, since we wouldn't need a mix of guns and bows and crossbows, so we wouldn't need as many hunter ranged weapon drops. Furthermore, it makes the non-reforged weapon still desirable. Of course you want to own the super cool-looking weapon ... just not at the expense of your racial bonus.
Thus, using the original weapon would have two advantages: You get the cooler-looking weapon model and you can reforge the stats as normal in reforging. This doesn't perfectly balance all the racials, of course, but it does bring them a heck of a lot closer and assures dwarf and troll hunters that they will actually get to make use of their racials.
So -- best idea yet? Or another miss?
[Update: to answer a common question "why not do it for melee?" Melee is far more complicated. If you could reforge melee type you could actually turn a weapon you cannot use into a weapon you can use, which messes with mechanical balance. Also some classes are balanced around weapon design -- like rogues and dagger speed, as an example. With ranged type reforging you do not screw up class balance.
So it's certainly a change that would only benefit the hunter class -- but so too is Trap Launcher or buffs to Explosive Shot only helping the hunter class. And the hunter class is what I'm here for.]
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 8)
jorSbalZla Nov 8th 2010 8:26AM
If only this were to happen, Ive had bows and crossbows pretty much all WotLK, wanted a gun so bad for my dwarf to play with :(
Ash Nov 8th 2010 9:43AM
Personaly I think you make a very good point. I'm currently leveling a hunter i'be chosen a belf for the racial I think arcane torrent is s pretty hefty dps boost when you consider it returns 6% of your focus. Also quite nice that in pvp that it silences.
Tribunal Nov 8th 2010 10:19AM
I too would love this (though in the other direction, bow + lady nelf = win!) but the model thing would suck.
What I think they could do is do it like offset tier and just kind of 'borrow' the model. 1 gun, bow, and crossbow model per tier, and you just get the other model when you reforge.
If they wanted to add a 'special' one with a special model they could (like the LK or KJ weapons, and obviously legendaries) and that's still only 2 of each per tier, really not bad. Going forward I think that might be nice.
Your idea would work well for old gear, however c:
Amaxe Nov 8th 2010 4:14PM
Pretty lame idea to allow reforging to turn a gun into a bow or vice versa. As someone else pointed out, why not do the same thing with melee weapons. Turn a mace into an axe or vice versa? Why not turn a 1 hander into a 2 hander to benefit the Retadin or perhaps a 2 hander into a 1 hander for a fury warrior.
Game balance aside there is a very good reason why Blizzard shouldn't allow this
/clears throat
"BECAUSE ITS A FRCKING GUN, NOT A BOW, AND YOU CAN'T TURN A GUN INTO A BOW!"
Sheesh, if you want to fix something, fix the racials balance.
Amaxe Nov 9th 2010 11:06AM
Fanboi hunters voting me down I guess.
Still, I believe my point remains valid. Take a bow and try to turn it into a gun. Take a gun and try to turn it into a bow. Even if you can do it, what you end up with is inferior to the item you once had. Imagine trying to refit a gun so it can take arrows instead.
The mechanics of how a gun works is entirely different from how a bow works, so really, the whole thing seems like wanting to min/max a character and not to correct imbalances in the game.
Then there is the whole issue of why stop there? If you can reforge ranged weapons to benefit your race/class, why not melee weapons or armor?
Have a healadin who would like that cloth drop but doesn't want to lose their plate specialization? Why not just have it reforged into plate so you don't have to waste that specialization bonus?
Same principle.
Here's why this idea is a miss.
The weapons you get always involve a tradeoff. Do I want to have my racial take priority? Or do I sacrifice it to have the DPS/stat gain of this bow/gun?
On the other hand, this allows us to use one of the tropes often used to mock lore lol:
Player 1: Hey, a bow dropped! How did you get a gun?
Player 2: A Wizard did it!
Racials don't always work. If you roll a dwarf paladin, your gun bonus is a waste. Likewise the troll shaman.
Now, the worgen hunter may have an advantage over the troll hunter or the dwarf hunter. However, this seems to be a flaw in the racials. It indicates a more fair system needs to be designed and not do a half-assed "hammer the new races in there somehow"
Daz_000_ Nov 11th 2010 6:39AM
@Amaxe Yeah imagine the insanity of refitting a weapon into another type..... but then consider the equal insanity of a person firing huge balls of fire from their hands or fight side by side with frickin big blue aliens
Not to mention the fact that you can take your well established character, who has existed for say 5 years and suddenly get a sex change, or even better find yourself the member of an entirely different race.
Yeah.... changing a bow to a gun is just crazy.......
Morgatho Nov 8th 2010 8:45AM
I like this idea, my hunter is an orc, but I don't like the sound of guns and cross bows still give me nightmares of the "Xbow of the chicken fisting" from the bag vendor fromSsunwell Island. so Id be happy to have a normal bow over a gun or xbow.
G01851 Nov 8th 2010 9:38AM
cross bows still give me nightmares of the "Xbow of the chicken fisting" from the bag vendor from Sunwell Island
/agree
Thanks for my laugh of the day :)
Boz Nov 8th 2010 10:06AM
"Normal" bow incoming:
Overpowered Chicken Splitter
http://cata.wowhead.com/item=59364
ninjivitis Nov 8th 2010 10:49AM
What in the world is the crossbow of the chicken fisting?
ZeroDesu Nov 8th 2010 11:23AM
@ninjivitis: Sometimes, it's best just not to ask...
G01851 Nov 8th 2010 11:49AM
I think this is it: http://www.wowhead.com/item=34892 and the description above is quite fitting...
Elwoods Nov 8th 2010 12:17PM
@ninjivitis: Its the reason hunter wish that badges were not added in TBC!
Boz Nov 8th 2010 8:46AM
I would prefer to see items re-engineered by a player profession than modified by an NPC if this were to come to fruition. Whether that's actual engineers or transmogrified by an enchanter or whatever, encouraging commerce and social interaction is preferable in an MMO environment than slapping a fix on an NPC.
In WotLK the final weapon of the expansion was/is, yes, a crossbow (Fal'inrush, Defender of Quel'thalas), but BRK-1000 was the top-end for the ToC-era. While Skyforge Crossbow (i239) was the top-end of Ulduar, there were plenty of alternative i232 guns and bows. They were so close in output that the difference was lost in the RNG (or lag). You had Arrowsong, Final Voyage, and Nerubian Conquerer in the Naxx days; one of every type. In BC I believe the end-game weapon was a legendary bow.
Blizzard puts in quite a bit of variety, plus we have the engineered entry-level raiding weapons and PvP weapons (with rated BGs, more options to acquire them, too). I detest using anything other than a gun as a dwarf myself, and it is annoying, but I'm not sure it's a problem significant enough that it requires a "fix."
At least not before our pets get some collars.
Frostheim Nov 8th 2010 2:17PM
Actually, Cataclysm has very few hunter guns. There's an eng crafted blue gun, a blue gun in a heroic, and none at all in any of the raid content thus far. Dozens of bows though.
Boz Nov 8th 2010 3:52PM
Gun List (ignoring the greens and test items):
http://cata.wowhead.com/items=2.3#0-2+1
Cataclysm has few guns *thus far.* How many guns it will have three raid patches in (Uld/ToC/ICC), however, remains to be seen. I hope we'll see a few more guns in the coming year.
For now we'll have to make due to the Kickback 5000, (shudder) a tank gun, or PvP. To be fair, the crafted blue Kickback 5000 looks to be about equivalent to the Chicken Splitter with its gem slot, if it's any consolation.
mibsweden Nov 8th 2010 10:04AM
Miss.
fedorhajdu Nov 8th 2010 10:26AM
Downrated because your comment is clearly a miss. You should argument your claims. (If you gonna call bullshit, post a link to prove it!)
Anyway, on the other side, I agree it's a miss. Because that way we should able to reforge ALL Weapons!
Say, an orc rogue/shamy will want axes, dwarf will want maces etc.
Hunters will want to reforge any agility 2h maces to axes etc...
If we add the idea you mentioned about generic models, pretty much all weapons would look the same for everyone who at least a bit cares about maximizing their effectiveness.
That would lead to point where we'd simply have 1h melee weapon, 2h melee weapon and ranged weapon.
Where's the fun in that?
Akhi Nov 8th 2010 10:48AM
"So -- best idea yet? Or another miss? Please explain why in no fewer than 100 words, using both the pros and cons of each side to prove your point. Make sure you include a hyperlink to show your sources. Argument your claims. Photo documentation a plus."
There, I fixed that for you so you can tell mibsweden (s)he's answering blog questions in the comments wrong again if the mood strikes you.
Snuzzle Nov 8th 2010 2:29PM
I agree, sadly, with fedorhajdu. If I can reforge my gun into a bow, it's only fair that a druid can reforge that staff into a mace. Or the paladin can reforge that dagger into a sword. Or etc. It just opens up far too many doors.
Shame, because my recently dinged 80 cow huntress just had to spend all weekend PvPing for the Wrathful bow, because I learned that I absolutely hate the way she shoots guns (and xbows) which means I am stuck with a 219 bow or I can grit my teeth for a 232 one (not ready for ICC at all).
It's funny, because I could care less what type of weapon my alliance hunter could use... because she was my original main way back when UBRS was most peoples' end game and having a full set of purples meant you were hardcore. But anyway yeah. As nice as it would be, it will sadly probably never happen.