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11-15-2010 @ 3:10PM
One of the major issues that you've missed is that it doesn't really matter what players themselves want - it's what the leaders want.Incentives to downsize to 10man: - Less overhead - Easier coordination - Easier recruiting effort - Easier to start up and get moving.Incentives to raid 25man: - More epic feel - More Valor Points - Possibly More loot.The core issue is that, when you look at most of the incentives, leaders are pushed to 10mans while individuals are pushed to 25mans. One of the major reasons that 25man raiding is struggling is simply because no one wants to coordinate 25 people when they could do the same thing coordinating 10.Raiders might enjoy 25man raiding more, but without a leader, these raiders will disperse.
11-15-2010 @ 3:20PM
I strongly suspect that the "More Epic Feel" prong will attract plenty of leaders. We'll have to wait and see. But I doubt that someone like Matticus is going to say "Screw the epic feel, I don't want to put the time into this endeavor that 25-mans demand." Some leaders will, some won't. If you are a player who really enjoys 25-mans, and you find that there aren't enough 25-man raid leads, you should give it a try yourself.
11-15-2010 @ 3:24PM
Im done with 25man raids. I know for a fact that im not alone. There are a few guilds on my server already breaking into 10. Dont forget that 25mans may give more valor but we are all still capped in the end.
11-15-2010 @ 3:25PM
Without a leader, they will.. find a new leader. That might be in your guild, or that might be in other guilds. While I will agree the raid leader(s) feelings are pertinent, don't write off the other 9/24 people.
11-15-2010 @ 4:41PM
I think the incentives will also vary according to how 'pro' your realm is.On high-pop realms that serious raiders and pro pvp'ers and the like gravitate to (Kil'Jaeden comes to mind), 25s will be more popular. There are more pro raid leaders capable of organizing 25 man raids, and more pro players who are much easier to organize and lead (they actually come to raids stocked with pots & buffs, correctly geared, know the strats backward and forward, and don't stand in the fires, among other things). It will be easy to recruit a quality, committed raid group for 25s and run it efficiently and reliably.On smaller and/or more casual realms where the experience and serious of the raiders is more variable, it can be much more difficult to organize non-fail 25man raids and raiding guilds. Guild leaders there may find it more effective to focus on building a committed, high-quality 10 man raiding team that progresses through the content and gets it on farm quickly, rather than continuously banging their head against the wall in 25s.I've played on both types of realms, as both raider and officer of both types of guilds.
11-15-2010 @ 8:16PM
Look at it from a non-officer, non-player perspective. Just logic.Of course there will be plenty of 25 man guilds. Old school raiders still miss (?) 40 man raids, and a lot of their opinion is tied to world/server first 25 man kills. It's hard to get out of that mindset.However, since there's little real incentive to run 25 over 10, there will be a large number of 25 man guilds that downsize. How large is hard to say, but you know it will happen. How many 10 man guilds see the changes as a good reason to bump up to 25? I'm betting about 2...This isn't a good or bad thing, I have no opinion about the situation itself in particular. From my point of view (officer), I'd like to keep fielding 25's, but I'll stick to 10's if it comes to that, and I'll be happy either way. But it's just inevitable that the changes will result in a significant shift to downsizing in general.
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