The evolution of zerg dungeon farming

We've all heard the complaints about groups treating the dungeons and heroics of the Wrath era as chores, five- to 15-minute frenzied runs through the place, annihilating everything in the path of five silent, grim harbingers of death. No nuance, no subtlety, and no strategy. Crowd control? Crowds are controlled by their own grim, horrible demises. When considered in this light, these dungeons seem less like adventures and more like unfortunate victims of beings who invade and despoil.
However, the reason for this is fairly simple. In Wrath, dungeons have been wildly successful at two very difficult tasks.
In the time before time
In the original release of World of Warcraft, there were a variety of dungeons catering to characters as they leveled up. Once you reached level 60, the highest level you could reach, there were more dungeons you could run that were designed for the mid-50s to level 60, and there was one raid. There were also large dungeons that you could run in a raid group (Blackrock Spire's upper and lower branches, Stratholme, even Scholomance and BRD at the time of release), if you wished to and could assemble a group. This changed over time, but even today, you can bring a 10-man group to Blackrock Spire if you wish.
The rewards didn't improve, however. The gear in 5-man dungeons (with the exception of a few very rare epic drops like Treant's Bane, the Runeblade of Baron Rivendare or the Blackblade of Shahram) was always the same gear. There were no heroic 5-mans. If you were not running 20- or 40-man raids at that time, the best gear you could hope to acquire by the time Naxxramas launched would be the quest-derived epic dungeon set pieces, some crafted epics, and if you had the fortitude, some PvP gear that at the time had no resilience on it, since the stat didn't exist yet.
Basically, if you weren't raiding, there was a point at which you couldn't possibly improve your gear. And if you were raiding, you weren't interested in 5-mans at all. Past a certain point, there was no reason to go to them. With spending hours clearing trash for rep or possible epics or elementium ore or what have you, you didn't really have the time or inclination to do much else. Simply put, the people with the gear to zerg classic instances didn't often bother; there was no incentive for them to run those dungeons unless a friend needed to get something. If a new guildmate needed an Onyxia key, then you'd see several geared raiders go to BRD and rip the place to shreds.
Dungeon fires burning
The Burning Crusade started to see a shift in the way 5-mans were approached. First came the debut of the heroic dungeon, which meant that all of the new dungeons introduced for leveling purposes would also serve double duty for level 70 players, giving them more options even if they didn't raid. Second, heroic dungeons provided a drop per instance that was about as good as the starter level epics from raiding. In addition to the changes to raiding itself (Karazhan as a 10-man dungeon making a raid of 10 people viable and itemized), this meant that 5-mans were viable longer and gave better rewards.
By itself, however, this innovation didn't lead to 5-mans being zerged, because it was still fairly difficult to assemble a pickup group of five people. There were issues with tanking classes, issues with DPS classes, and often, groups were assembled by players deliberately tweaking the runs so that they would be the only one who could make use of X drop.
Another innovation of the BC-era dungeon was the Badge of Justice. Originally dropping in heroic dungeons and serving as currency for items to help one run the first tier of BC raiding, the badges eventually began dropping in all raids and were useful for purchasing higher-tier epics equivalent to later-tier raids. However, since they still dropped in 5-man heroic dungeons, it became possible for someone running those dungeons to gain epic gear of a much higher item level; as a result, 5-man heroics were worth running even for players in 25-man raid gear, in order to stockpile them for when the next tier of raiding debuted.
When the Fury of the Sunwell patch dropped, many players flooded the Isle of Quel'Danas quest hub to force it to open its badge vendor as quickly as they could on their realms, entirely to purchase the epic items, which were roughly equivalent to the drops available from the Black Temple and Mount Hyjal raid instances.
This definitely increased the level of highly geared players zerging down instances, because there was an incentive to do so. Five-mans by the end of the BC era were an effective way to gear up a character in gear good enough to zerg 5-mans. By near the end of the process, a group so equipped had relative power that no group running 5-man content in original WoW could ever have boasted. The only instance that could serve to challenge these groups was Magister's Terrace, released with Fury of the Sunwell; it dropped gear on normal mode as good as a heroic dungeon, and on heroic, equivalent to the first tier of raiding from every boss.
The Wrath of the dungeon
Almost all the elements of the BC model were present (if in some cases modified) in Wrath. The model changed further by dividing the kinds of emblems one could get into heroism (for heroic dungeons and 10-man raiding) and valor (25-man raiding). As each new tier of raiding dropped, new emblems for that tier dropped; eventually, the lowest tier of available emblems would graduate so that 5-man heroics would give conquest, then triumph emblems, making higher level gear available from vendors.
The combination of making raiding (and thus raiding gear) more accessible, and then making it available to players who never raided via emblem vendors, helped make running 5-mans continually profitable even for raid-geared players. Also attractive for highly geared players were the heirlooms that could be purchased with said emblems.
So we had a system that rewarded raiders for running heroics while also allowing players who never raided to get gear at least comparable to those who did. In each case, said gear was far and away more powerful than that which actually dropped in the heroics (just like the BC model), even with the introduction of new, higher-itemized and more highly tuned dungeons (again, like the late BC model of Magister's Terrace). What really set things in motion for farming heroics, however, was the introduction of the LFD tool.
The LFD tool made grouping easier -- so much easier, in fact, that while players are still capable of putting together a 5-man group and going to the dungeon itself, with the LFD, you could easily be a guildless player who knew almost no one else and still run 5-man heroic content in an MMO with other players.
The LFD tool provided the final piece of the puzzle for heroic dungeon farming to reach its current foment: itemization and rewards available for people of varying gear levels, ease of use, constantly scaling heroics to provide higher and higher rewards outside of emblems, as well as emblems scaling with each tier of raiding, and a means to enable almost anyone to run two or three dungeons in a two-hour period.
Now, while Cataclysm's dungeons and heroics will be harder for a while and are set up with the new justice/valor points system, eventually players will outgear the heroics the expansion launches with. Eventually, new ones with better gear will be released, and eventually, players will outgear those as well. This is not bad. This is, in fact, an accessible and working model. This makes 5-mans viable and rewarding content.
The trick, which I believe Blizzard has shown every sign of working toward, is keeping those dungeons viable and challenging for longer by throttling how quickly gear can escalate. Can the justice points/valor point system allow for rewarding both raiders and 5-man players in an equitable way with its inherent cap system while still motivating players to run 5-mans? Will gear inflation (the result of heroic raid bosses in Wrath) be curbed? We have yet to see, but it looks hopeful so far.
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm will destroy Azeroth as we know it; nothing will be the same! In WoW Insider's Guide to Cataclysm, you can find out everything you need to know about WoW's third expansion (available Dec. 7, 2010), from brand new races to revamped quests and zones. Visit our Cataclysm news category for the most recent posts having to do with the Cataclysm expansion.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Raiding, The Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, Cataclysm
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 7)
Sleutel Nov 18th 2010 9:06PM
@Barthaes
"I admit that you couldn't zerg the entire first group like you can now in UK, but that's not the point."
No, actually, that *is* the point. That's exactly what we're talking about here, 100%.
Heilig Nov 18th 2010 9:07PM
This is a true statement. I thought most of the heroics were easy because I walked into my first heroic in 60% Sunwell gear. I had maybe 4 crafted pieces with a load of defense to get me to the cap and my health was at 24K at level 70, not 80. By 80, my health was over30k before the first piece of heroic gear. NOT quest greens, Sunwell gear and the crafted defense gear. The people I did the dungeons with were all in the same sort of mix and we were all very experienced players who had killed KJ a dozen or so times before Wrath launched, so yeah, the heroics felt pretty easy to us.
AND WE STILL WIPED ON F*%#ING LOKEN!
Rob Nov 18th 2010 10:27PM
Robo is full of it, however, if you gem and enchant for just defense and get the blue tanking set (ilvl 187-170ish), you can get defense capped. But you'll only have 15k or 20k health. Now adays its a HELL of alot easier for a tank to walk in and think they are ready. Either they get carried by the healer or get their asses handed to them and their 20k health without any defense stats (dodge/parry).
And BC was just hell. It was hell to get into kara. It was hell to get out of kara and start doing SSC. We really struggled when the badge gear only took you to tier 4 for most of the expac, and without 25 mans, you are stuck at tier 4, and the harder heroics really needed tier 5 to safely do. So there were a bunch of heroics that were really tough until very late, just because the average puger just COULD NOT get gear. It didn't exist. And people had to know how to CC to some degree, there was alot of CC in heroics and kara, and even the raids epecially TK with the 4-5 sheeps per pull.
Just how bad has it gotten? I just got out of a hHOR run (successful). I have full ICC10 an 25 gear, over 50k health (DK tank). I basically carried one of my best friends who was in blues. The dps...gah. Just horrible. Once we wiped I explained that the raid markers were a kill order and we had to follow them or we died (and i told them this at the beginning too, not to mention helping me by CC). And this is an exact quote from the dps. "But you're the tank, can't you handle 4 mobs?".
Blessedly, they did kill the skull first, then proceeded to AOE the rest of 3 guys beating on me. CC was out of the question. Just..holy crap these people are morons. They should be able to realize 'jee this is the hardest 5 man in the game, and the healer isn't up to par, we maybe should think about single target dps and crowd control' (btw we did LFD, so no we didn't purposely get a place that we were undergeared for)
toddcore Nov 18th 2010 11:08PM
So much hate and hostility here. I feel like I'm watching Glenn Beck. Why does everyone who feels differently than you or had a different experience or maybe just remembers things differently have to be a fool or a liar? Why can't you just be two people who disagree?
For my part, I played all the way through vanilla, TBC, and WotLK from beginning to end and I can honestly say that with a combination of non-Sunwell level 70 raid epics, quest rewards, craftables, and rep rewards our guild had tanks, healers, and DPS capable of running Wrath heroics without issue as SOON as we hit 80.
Wrath heroics may have been, relatively speaking, far more difficult then than they are now. But they were also, relatively speaking, far easier then than TBC heroics or level 60 dungeons were when being run by players just hitting the appropriate level cap.
My point being that Wrath heroics don't just seem easier due to gear inflation. They were designed to be more forgiving than 5-man content had been previously. Whether you think it's a good thing that they were tuned to be less challenging or not is a matter of personal opinion that doesn't really warrant trying to reinvent the past or insulting others who didn't have an experience identical to yours.
Thraelys Nov 19th 2010 1:24AM
Yeah...I don't think there is much ground to say that heroics were easy when Wrath first hit. Sure, you could have been def capped. I decided to try and tank and got into PvE because of how much more accessible Wrath was. With that being said, getting defense capped was not easy, and it sure as hell wasn't cheap. Titansteel for 1000g anyone? And at 536 defense, I had people up my ass for only have 25k HP. Whenver the daily was H HoL or OK, I wouldn't do it. Loken was annoying. And it was hard to find a coherent group most of the time, making it harder.
The only way you can say Wrath Heroics have been easy from the start is if you had Sunwell gear to start with. For those of us who started with quest blues and crafted epics that broke our bank, they were pretty tough.
Tbah Nov 19th 2010 1:36AM
The Wrath heroics were relatively easy to ppl with T6 level gear, because they were only replaced by the heroic loot / dungeon quest / reputation rewards.
That will change, though, because even ilvl277 heroic ICC epics must be replaced before level 85. This I see as a good thing, the hardcore raiders will be starting from the same level as anyone else, only they will start a bit earlier (the gear gives better DPS which translates into faster leveling).
Noctune Nov 19th 2010 2:17AM
Well in my opinon
Wrath Heroics is easier the BC Heroics at launch.
but i think we are missing the main diference between thoes two eras.
TIME - basicly Wrath dungeons are streamline very well to take aprox. 45min -60min
There is some older BC HC that took alot longer...
With the current CC change ... well i don't like it fully. In my oppinon i whould like it somthing like this.
AoE Pack , CC Pack , AoE Pack , CC Pack .. like a flow .. not just one over the other ...
Filling a dungeon with CC Packs is well daunting. esp. the nr of CC you need.
I don't mind using 2 CC / group but what i have read you need to use 4 CC / Group thats ALOT.
Considering how weak some of the CC is.
Its not uncommon on my realm to end up healing a Paladin Tank(or a warrior) and 3x Deathknights .... now tell me how the CC is going to work in that group thats not going to steal all my mana so i have to drink between each pull.
On the comment that healing Occ was almost imposible for a new lv80 BS ..... I did it on my druid (first char) on the night i hit 80 basicly all it costed me was about 500g to get some Blue lv78 gear. Yes i drank alot of water between each pull but it was dooable.
and yes we wiped like 3+ times in there but it was still fun. We did Eregos with 2x green 2xAmber 1x Emerald but that was because we was afraid our healing wasn't enough
fedorhajdu Nov 19th 2010 5:00AM
Loken and Skadi where extremely hard when Wrath hit. While we were waiting for all guildies to hit 80 so we can start Naxx, we had nights wiping on Skadi (we were in T6 and Wrath questing gear)...
Farming http://www.wowhead.com/item=37401was one of the most painful things I've done back then...
Naxx on the other hand was a joke... First night there we cleared Spider and Plague wings while most of us have seen those bosses for the first time.
JustPlainJim Nov 19th 2010 9:48AM
Preach it! Sure today you can ROFLstomp anything out there, but I can clearly remember the times when these instances were HARD! It took me a half-dozen runs through heroic Culling of Stratholme before we could even make it to the extra boss on time. Now that I'm in ICC-level gear? We get spend more time getting Arthas to move his lazy arse than fighting zombies.
Texicles Nov 19th 2010 12:19PM
While Roboticus might be exaggerating a bit, ozreece77 and others should probably rein in the rage a bit as well.
My gf and I hit 80 6 days after Wrath launched. 2nd and 3rd in our guild. When 2 other people hit 80, we ran a handful of regulars and probably got a couple of drops, but were mostly wearing quest rewards and mid-level rep rewards. No one was carried because we were all in the same boat.
It quickly became apparent that my guildies and I were wasting our time and we moved on to heroics. I don't pretend that we never wiped, but the heroics WERE doable in greens and blues you picked up on the way to 80.
Sure, the tank might have been a little under def-cap, and the dps a little under hit cap, and while it is obviously not optimal to run content this way, it IS possible.
Even Loken wasn't a challenge after the 3rd wipe when we decided to just stay stacked up on him, use nature resist and heal through it.
Contrast this to BC (when I started playing) and there is an obvious disparity. Heroics were keyed, so obviously you HAD to run regulars, but even then, the first time you set foot in a heroic, it was a rude awakening. Even after a couple of tiers of BC raiding, some heroic encounters could be a challenge. Comparatively, Wrath heroics were easy.
TL;DR: Don't try to pretend that Wrath heroics were the same level of difficulty as BC heroics, but also, don't jump on the it-was-so-easy-that-I-never-died-ever bandwagon, because that's not true either. Da end.
nikdaheratik Nov 19th 2010 12:20PM
On balance, I think the harder heroics in BC were much more difficult than the harder heroics in Wrath. Shattered Halls, Arcatraz, Steam Vaults and Shadow Labs were just plain nasty, but they also required a key to get into. Heck, you couldn't even do heroics at the start of BC until you had a revered level of rep with the required faction, but you can sneak into some of the Wrath heroics at 78.
BC heroics were harder, but they were meant to be closer to end game content while Wrath heroics were meant to be something you did to gear your toon up before raiding.
Diop Nov 19th 2010 1:16PM
I think Wrath heroics were demonstrably easy by the fact that most people were able to skip the natural progression of gear upgrades.
Usually when you hit level cap you're meant to run normal dungeons, rep grind a bit and get some craftable blues and purples. However most people just randomly went into heroics in their quest greens and yeah things were a bit tough but not insurmountable. (I recall wowinsider actually did a post basically saying "Don't be that guy that comes to heroics in greens). The heroics were tuned for people in 187 gear with maybe one or two 200 pieces, not 156 blues and lower greens.
I remember one warrior particularly annoyed me in my guild by moaning over and over about the def cap and how it was 'impossible' to reach pre-naxx. After two or three weeks of his moaning I looked at his gear and suggested that high def trinket off Loken normal that would have easily put him over the cap, but the only reply I got was "Lol, why spend time doing a normal dungeon when you can do heroics!"
Also on the main topic why does no one ever seem to mention the changes to tanking as to why we can Zerg dungeons nowadays. Before wrath Warrior and Bear AOE abilities were limited to 3 people, had cd and hit like a wet fish, Paladins were a bit better but still not comparable to any wrath tank, so even if you had a T6 warrior in your dungeon you still had to take things slow and single target everything otherwise those mobs will come eat your priest.
Kaz Nov 19th 2010 4:12PM
Yeah I hate the way people say how "easy" Wrath heroics are. Back when it was released Wrath heroics were fairly difficult. However I think that some of the perception comes from the fact that decent gear was acquired fairly quickly due to the rep vendors. In fact there were a few pre-raiding BIS items from the faction quartermasters. Also, many people had gear from late BC raiding or IQD and it seems that Blizz had tuned Wrath so raiders could pretty much go straight to Naxx once enough people in their guild hit 80.
I know I was rolling in a lot of T6 and IQD gear when I first hit Naxx 10 (only a few pieces got replaced by quest blues and faction blues). I didn't have any trouble staying competitive (although I didn't top the charts) and quickly got some nice ilevel 200 epics from Naxx 10.
Of course then came the gear inflation and every causal player eventually rolling in T9 and ilevel 232 gear and every hardcore player flashing T10 and 264-277 gear and suddenly you get dungeons invaded by silent, merciless, 5man death-squads.
Right now Grim Batol seems to be the hardest Cata 5man and its going to cause a lot of nerdraging, but soon after people start swimming in T11+ gear everyone will be calling it Grim BaLOL.
Martinel Nov 18th 2010 7:07PM
Very well written, Matt :)
JImithingmi Nov 18th 2010 7:13PM
I think there will be less of this in Cataclysm because of the cap on points you can get in a week. Since raiders will be getting most of their point allotment for the week from raids with just a few 5 man runs to supplement it, less of the over geared players will be flooding the 5 mans.
This will mean the majority of players running multiple 5 mans will be non-raiders who either don't raid or are gearing up to raid. Either way there will be less players over-powered to the content so it will take longer to get to the zerging tipping point.
Destiny's hand Nov 18th 2010 7:49PM
actually there is no cap on points per week, there is just a point cap of 4000, so you can farm to the cap, spend them then continue to farm more points, the exception to that is Valor points which can only be gained from the current tier of raiding, so it'll be like a hybrid of wrath and TBC. Your justice points will be usable for the previous tier quality gear, so first it'll be heroic quality, then it'll be T11, then T12, and so on, the points will still be farmable and thus by next year we'll be zerging heroics yet again unless they decide to ramp up the difficulty of them to keep everyone at the same level and prevent zerging
Destiny's hand Nov 18th 2010 7:48PM
actually there is no cap on points per week, there is just a point cap of 4000, so you can farm to the cap, spend them then continue to farm more points, the exception to that is Valor points which can only be gained from the current tier of raiding, so it'll be like a hybrid of wrath and TBC. Your justice points will be usable for the previous tier quality gear, so first it'll be heroic quality, then it'll be T11, then T12, and so on, the points will still be farmable and thus by next year we'll be zerging heroics yet again unless they decide to ramp up the difficulty of them to keep everyone at the same level and prevent zerging
Destiny's hand Nov 18th 2010 7:52PM
actually there is no cap on points per week, there is just a point cap of 4000, so you can farm to the cap, spend them then continue to farm more points, the exception to that is Valor points which can only be gained from the current tier of raiding, so it'll be like a hybrid of wrath and TBC. Your justice points will be usable for the previous tier quality gear, so first it'll be heroic quality, then it'll be T11, then T12, and so on, the points will still be farmable and thus by next year we'll be zerging heroics yet again unless they decide to ramp up the difficulty of them to keep everyone at the same level and prevent zerging
JImithingmi Nov 18th 2010 8:07PM
Your right. I got myself a little confused.
There is going to be a weekly cap on Valor Points that can be used for the current tier of gear and equivalent items.
There's no weekly cap on Justice Points which can buy the previous tier of gear, just the 4000 point cap.
Lugo Nov 19th 2010 8:12PM
I was under the impression that the 4000 cap was only in place for the transition between WotLK and Cata, and is to be removed after release.
Anyway, the weekly cap on Valor points will certainly help in letting the player chose what to do. If you prefer raiding, you can cap your points by raiding a lot without feeling that you're missing valor points by not running daily heroics.
If you only raid a few bosses per week, you can do some daily heroics to compensate.