Drama Mamas: When NSFW guild chat aggros a parent
by Robin Torres 
Nov 19th 2010 at 9:00AM
Drama Mamas Lisa Poisso and Robin Torres are experienced gamers and real-life mamas -- and just as we don't want our precious babies to be the ones kicking and wailing on the floor of the checkout lane next to the candy, neither do we want you to become known as That Guy on your realm.
We are planning a special Drama Mamas that talks about the results of our advice -- good or bad. Some of our letter writers have responded in the comments, but we'd love to hear from more of you. If you have had your letter answered here and would like to be included, please send us an email at DramaMamas@wow.com letting us know how your situation turned out.
Now on to this week's letter:
Last Saturday night very late in the evening and pushing into the early morning, our guild chat erupted into the usual filthy conversation as drunk people came home and got online, and those of us that were online slackened our usual standards to join in. However, this time, one of the guild members exploded after about half an hour of this, claiming that her 12-year-old child was on, that we had scarred him for life and ruined his childhood. I helpfully pointed out that perhaps she was not being the best parent for allowing her young child to be playing the game very late at night with an unfiltered chat box -- not the best move I have ever made.
This has now blown up to the point where I have left a guild I was very happy in to attempt to ease the obvious grief that the guild leaders were getting from this person. Unfortunately, this has not stopped it, as many of the guild members who were involved are still arguing about the situation and are disappointed that I have left. This guild member is now going to report us all to Blizzard and attempt to get us all banned from the game permanently. I was hoping for a neutral view on this.
During the day and early evening, I am very aware of my language and, barring a few slips, keep it clean and healthy, since I try to avoid offending anyone especially those that are of a younger age. However, once the clock ticks past 10 or 11, I feel that it is acceptable the let loose somewhat. Clearly, if I am the only one in a guild who thinks this, then I have my answer. But if the vast majority of a guild partakes, is it not this person who should be finding a new guild that fits with her ideals?
Also, am I likely to get a ban? I have put a lot of time and effort into five level 80s and a few in the 70s. I have no doubt I could start again. But I seriously doubt I would bother and would drift away from the game I have come to love.
Drama Mama Robin: I'm rather irritated at Enraged Mom for her outburst. Late-night Friday and Saturday conversations in battlegrounds are some of the most offensive I have ever seen. And trade chat at any time of day on most servers devolves into NSFW discussions without warning or reasonable segue. I highly doubt that your raunchy chat was more offensive than the horrific public chats this 12-year-old has been exposed to in WoW. I also suspect that the things he hears at school are more offensive than anything he read in guild chat that night. So, if you are feeling bad for "ruining" this kid's childhood, please don't. I don't think Blizzard will ban you for this. You didn't have this conversation in a public chat. Nor does it seem that you continued the late night talk after Enraged Mom complained. And you were unaware that the underage kid was listening. Bans usually come from forcing offensive speech on someone else without their consent and that doesn't really apply here. Of course, it is at Blizzard's discretion to ban as it sees fit, so I could be wrong in this case.
You already know that accusing Enraged Mom of bad parenting was not right, just as she wasn't right to throw a tantrum in guild chat. The real problem here isn't you or the other guilty chatters or even Enraged Mom, it's the guild leadership. Where are they in all this? Of course, with a clear written policy, this all would probably have been avoided. If you're supposed to keep it family-friendly at all times, then Enraged Mom should have reported you all to the leaders and they should have acted appropriately. If it is clearly written that NSFW chat is OK on late nights, then Enraged Mom would have known not to let her son play at that time and any outbursts would have been inappropriate.
I think the leadership should quickly do the following:
- Determine the members they want to keep. If they want to keep Enraged Mom and child, their policies will be different from if they want to keep you and your naughty late-night chat buddies.
- Post a clear guild chat policy.
- Announce the guild chat policy. Current members need to determine if they want to remain and not be left to randomly check guild info.
- Limit guild membership as appropriate. Players need to know beforehand what kind of guild they are applying for. If you are going to allow NSFW chat in your guild, you need to state clearly to all potential members that your guild is not family-friendly. If you are family-friendly, then you need to make sure you don't get any trade chat rejects.
Drama Mama Lisa: As Robin notes, this is clearly a situation for the guild leaders to handle. As for a possible ban, I'm afraid that decision will rest with Blizzard -- a pointed reminder that in-game chat, like anything on the internet, has the potential to be made or considered public.There are a couple of other points from your letter that concern me. The first is how quickly you left your guild when problems occurred. Let's review Drama Mama Lisa's Three Rules for Leaving a Guild During Drama:
- If you really wish that things would just work out, then help them work out. You can't do that if you leave. Furthermore, bailing out during times of upheaval is a sure contributor to increased chaos. You're not doing anyone any favors by quitting at this point -- it's the virtual equivalent of leaving the room and slamming the door behind you.
- Don't leave if you don't intend to stay gone. Never leave a guild to prove a point or to "make things easier" on someone else. Most especially, never leave a guild with the idea that you might go back "if" or "as soon as" things change. There's a name for players who leave guilds at the drop of a hat, nursing their fragile, emo souls until begged by former guildmates to rejoin the flock: drama queens.
- If leaving is the right thing to do, do so openly and with class. If you try to sneak out, you're sure to stir up still more rumors and drama. Make a short, businesslike post on the guild forums (or guild chat, if there are no forums; make your statement, then log off to avoid further discussion and drama -- you can remove your characters later, at a less trafficked time): "I've decided to play with another group of friends, so I'll be removing my characters in just a bit. Thanks for having me, and best of luck." Whatever you do, do not reference the current guild drama; this is about your departure, not a chance to fire off a parting shot at a situation in a group you've chosen not to be a part of. (Here are more tips on how to leave a guild with class.)
- "Last Saturday night very late in the evening and pushing into the early morning ..." The fact that this was a very, very late hour should be throwing up red flags for most parents. Is that to say that it's open season for potentially offensive language and behavior after a certain hour? Not necessarily -- but it's certainly a factor in warning parents to proceed with additional caution.
- "... our guild chat erupted into the usual filthy conversation ..." Wait -- this pattern was "usual"? What was Enraged Mom waiting for, an engraved invitation to log her child out of the game?
- "... one of the guild members exploded after about half an hour of this, claiming that her 12-year-old child was on and that we had scarred him for life and ruined his childhood." Wake up, Enraged Mom. It shouldn't take 30 minutes for you to respond to something that's scarring your child's life and ruining his childhood.
What you're looking for is a family-friendly guild that's designed to accommodate kids who play. You can't go by the "family-friendly" label alone; find out what the group's in-game goals are. If you're looking for a group that won't penalize you for the occasional baby wake-up in the middle of a raid, you're looking for a different guild than one that makes a suitable hangout for a 12-year-old. Both groups could be considered "family-friendly" -- so ask!
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with a little help and insight from the Drama Mamas. Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas@wow.com. Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 10)
Zheo Nov 19th 2010 9:08AM
Firstly, I applaud you for calling Enraged Mom out; WHY is she letting her 12 year old play WoW so late into the morning? Yes, it's a weekend or what have you, but really, what does she expect at that time? Carebears and rainbows?! Does she forbid her child from watching TV at that time of night because they MIGHT see something they shouldnt?
Bad parent is bad.
Thomas Prescott Nov 19th 2010 9:41AM
This is why my guild is strictly 18+. This removes all liability for dirty vent/guild chat. If some person goes and complains, we just simply state that they have to be 18 to be in this guild, and if they aren't 18 then too bad. It solves all of these problems.
velutina Nov 19th 2010 9:58AM
Time zone differences?
Hoof Nov 19th 2010 10:03AM
Sorry Robin and Lisa, but I can't agree with you on this one. This is not the fault of the guild leader to fix. While it may not have been the most politically correct thing in the world to tell Enraged Mom that she's an idiot... the fact remains... she's an idiot. Her underage child is playing a game rated above his age group. Her underage child should be in bed by 10 if she's the least bit responsible. Her underage child, if she deems him mature enough to handle WoW, should have had his chat boxes neutered from the day he rolled his first character. Enraged Mom... you're still an idiot!
She and her child should leave. The only thing the GM of the guild needs to do is /gkick them and explain that they just don't fit in.
It's a shame you left the guild that you loved nameless writer. You should seek to rejoin immediately and tell Enraged Mom to go find the nearest cliff and jump off it if she doesn't like it.
You can't be banned for anything said, except the most extreme things, in guild chat. Guild chat is viewed as a private channel by Blizzard and they won't monitor it unless someone is reporting you for something that could literally be the difference between life and death.
ccbutch Nov 19th 2010 10:47AM
You must remember that not everyone is in the same time-zone. I've played with many people from Australia where our 2:00 am drunk talks happen in the middle of their day. Not saying either side is right or wrong, just something to be aware of. Just because server time and your time says it's 11:00PM and time to be NSFW doesn't mean that it's not 3:00PM for the enraged mom.
Noyou Nov 19th 2010 10:55AM
#1. I absolutely would have called out the mom. Maybe in a nicer way. I particularly don't see how anyone can let their kids play it that are under 18 in my opinion-even with the language filters. There are just so many a-hole behaviors that don't even take bad language into consideration. "it takes a village to raise a child" true but don't put your kid out in harms way purposely. especially when there are safeguards you can use if you want to have wow be your parent for you.
#2. I would have booted enraged mom from my guild. Why? Her child is her responsibility not the guilds. Yes there was bad language and that may be another discussion. She chose to go off on other guildies which is the same as going off on them for their personal views, loot, or whatever.
Snuzzle Nov 19th 2010 11:19AM
While Velutina and Ccbutch brought up excellent points, I think (hope) the writer would have mentioned it if Enraged Mom was in a different time zone, as I am quite certain that it would have come up in the drama. After all, the writer did mention to the mom that it was very late at night... if there was a time zone difference, I imagine the reply would have been something like "It's not that late, it's only midnight!"
Of course, it's quite possible there was a time zone difference that was never addressed, but again, I would hope that if there was a mis-communication such as that it would have been addressed somewhere in the kerfluffle.
On a side note, though, even a 12 year old being able to stay up until midnight on the weekends has a pretty relaxed parent. My bedtime when I was 12 was still 8pm on school nights, 10pm weekends, exceptions: sleepovers.
Cor Nov 19th 2010 12:10PM
The Mother is the one at fault here. I am the father of two kids that play WoW. I rarely let them play on the characters that are in my guild (they die and spirit rez all the time. I now know is cost hundreds of gold to repair all my gear from broken), but when they do I set up an Away tag to let people know it's not me, I close down their chat screen, and make sure vet is off. It's MY responsibility to set the environment for my kids, NOT my guilds.
Parents like the one in this example really annoy me. Lazy parents make life less enjoyable and require government to step in a regulate things that should be in control of the individual.
SerenityNow Nov 19th 2010 12:14PM
The timezone factor is a good point. But it works both ways. Enraged Mom should have been aware that if it's 9PM for her and her son, that means it's midnight for others on the other side of the continent (assuming North America), and thus the watershed has passed and some very colorful language will be spoken. Furthermore, the letter writer mentions 1) this kind of chat late at night is usual; and 2) that Enraged Mom let it slide without complaint for about 30 mins. Okay, so let's assume that Enraged Mom was new to the guild - that could possibly explain not knowing about late night bawdy chat (although aformentioned timezone awareness still applies). But there is no excuse for waiting (and exposing kid) for half an hour. This is classic parenting fail, to the point where I suspect Enraged Mom is a full-blown drama hunting troll (especially with the threat about getting others banned from the game). And the point others raised about her 12 year-old's exposure to language is also important: most kids that age I've met use language that would make a teamster blush. Gkick for Enraged Mom and spawn, with a polite "I'm sorry but this isn't thee right guild for you", is in order.
Streen Nov 19th 2010 12:43PM
I agree. I am the father of a 9 year old boy. He is not allowed to play unless i am watching, and or, playing with him. This game is nasty! I can't believe the stuff people say.
Besides there is a lot of cool parental tools already built into the game, not just the chat filter. I make sure to only show him combat log, and i blocked all trades and messages. Now we are all happy :)
Great drama mama post btw!!
eenersumbrella Nov 19th 2010 12:59PM
@Hoof
10 pm bedtime on a weekend for a 12 y/o? I'd agree if the child was a few years younger, but even at 10 my parents let me stay up until 11 on the weekends.
However, I do agree with you on the fact that the child is playing a game that is rated above his age group. A good gaming parent would either not allow them to play or monitor their playing more closely. When playing any games, my parents always had a certain hour that they were to be turned off by.
If anything, Enraged Mom probably scarred the child herself by going off in chat like that. Parents are far more embarrassing and scarring than anything that I've ever see roll across my chat log. That poor kid is probably never going to play again for something he may have not even been paying attention to, because he's far too embarrassed to play the toons that that guild knows about.
I have one question for Enraged Mom (being a mother myself,) Are you more upset that this happened or that you were basically caught not monitoring your child's online habits?
Guy Nov 19th 2010 1:04PM
I sort of agree wtih Zheo, but I want to know time zones. I am on the east coast and play on a west coast server because I am usually playing after midnight. I could easily see the opposite happening as well. If the majority of guild members were on the east coast and this mother and child were on the west coast 12am would only be 9pm on weekend, that isn't that late for a 12 year old.
emberdione Nov 19th 2010 1:56PM
@Cor
HUZZAH sir! A parent taking responsibility?!? Father of the year right here people.
I have a friend who let his 4 year old play (he taught him to fish) and used a ui addon to completely remove the chat. He turned off speech bubbles too. Kid had fun playing "Daddy's game", dad got max level fishing, everybody wins.
If only we had more parents like you.
velutina Nov 22nd 2010 11:30AM
I mentioned time zone differences because the original questioner didn't, but he *did* present his case in a way that makes him look pretty good. That makes me suspicious. He "helpfully" tells this woman how to parent her kid and then drama /gquits with the idea that this will somehow reduce the level of drama.
Yes, parenting is Enraged Mom's responsibility. That being said, *all* of us together have the responsibility of together creating the kind of community we want to live in. And just because someone else is acting badly, or complaining, does not give us license to let our behavior slip down to their level.
A simple, "I'm sorry I offended you. I didn't realize your kid was on/reading chat, and/or that this was a problem for you," would go a long way towards setting a tone where the issue could be resolved in a grown-up manner.
Robin Torres Nov 19th 2010 1:43PM
@Hoof and the others saying "Yay calling out the mom!": it doesn't matter that she's the one who started it or that she's the one in the wrong. This isn't about justice (that's not going to happen), it's not about educating the mom (she's not listening when she's enraged) and the mom isn't the one who wrote in. This is about not exacerbating the drama she caused and how to deal with it afterward, in ways the letter writer can control.
Of course it's the mom's responsibility to control what she can about her 12 year old's environment and teach him to deal with what she can't. She could have turned this into a learning experience rather than a drama storm. But she didn't and there's nothing we or the letter writer can do about it.
dmann Nov 19th 2010 3:04PM
first of all WOW has a TEEN ESRB rating... 13 yrs and older so... her son is already playing something he shoudnt....
Second, It doesn't take 30 minutes to announce that there is an under aged player...
Third, guild chat is NOT blizzard regulated, its supposed to be a guild leader job, so you can say whatever you want in there and not get banned....
should have kicked her instead.... phs....
clundgren Nov 19th 2010 3:30PM
Hmmm...I have to be totally honest. The OPs comments raised a lot of red flags for me. To be brutally honest, they do not ring entirely truthful.
I'm a high school teacher. I'm very used to hearing different versions of events, and the fact is that all of us are self-serving to some degree or another when we retell a story, particularly when there is conflict involved. But the OP's story includes a number of tells that make me doubt he is being entirely truthful:
1. He's completely the victim. Sure, he was also the one, apparently, leading the "adult" conversation, but the way he tells the story, his behaviour is normal and anyone objecting to it is aberrant. Maybe. One thing I've found in dealing with teenagers in this sort of situation is that they are always the victim, and everyone else is completely unreasonable. Sound familiar?
2. The mom's reaction is totally unreasonable, as he describes it. In fact, I find her reaction literally unbelievable. Shouldn't this raise a few red flags? Rather than agreeing that she's a terrible person and utterly lacking in judgement and parenting skills, maybe we should suspect that we aren't being given the full story. Trying to get the entire guild banned? That just sounds made up to me.
3. He quit the guild over the issue. Who's the drama queen here? Doesn't this make you suspect that this person is somewhat self-involved, and thus not totally reliable as an objective narrator of the facts?
Maybe this story is perfectly reliable. But here's another narrative:
"I belong to a really nice guild, where we all get along most of the time, and I have found it to be a rich, welcoming environment, so much so that I even permit my child to be a member. But we have this one guy who comes on, often late at night, sometimes possibly drunk, and starts pushing the boundaries of what I, and others, consider acceptable behaviour.
Anyway, one night it was just too much. We were having a good time, but he just kept pushing it with comments that were frankly sexual and gross, and some of the other members began responding in kind. I'm afraid I blew up a bit and called him on it, as his behaviour had been bothering me for some time. Anyway, things got a bit heated, he quit the guild, and now accuses me of all sorts of outlandish things, like being a bad parent and wanting to have the whole guild banned."
Is this a possible version of the same story?
My point is that all we have is one side, so before you start going off about what a terrible person that parent is, and how she completely lacks judgement, etc, consider the source.
Mortenebra Nov 19th 2010 4:12PM
As others have said before, we don't know the full details of the situation on either side-- time zone differences, why the kid was on during that hour, etc. I think what the Drama Mamas are trying to say about the guild leadership stepping up is mostly on guild policy. When parents of my guild come to us (the officership), asking for their kid to be let into the guild, we make it explicitly clear with the elder guildie of what can go on in guild chat and Vent (something he or she has probably experienced at some point anyway) and it's the responsibility of the elder guildie to take whatever precaution they feel necessary for it; we also tell them we will not tolerate any gkick-worthy behavior from the kid, nor cut them any slack just because "they're a kid." This might come out the wrong way, but, really, letting a guildmate's kid into the guild is a HUGE favor from us to them.
Maybe the officership had that exact conversation with Enraged Mom when her kid joined, maybe they didn't. We don't know that. On the count that the guild leadership should step in and try to mediate the situation... that might not work out so well, except maybe to try and "separate" the two parties as quickly (and effectively) as possible with the hope that hot heads will cool off. But if the complainant is an adult and the person being complained at is an adult, they should try and work it out like adults. Only when there isn't some sort of solution reached should an officer need to step in and preside over the matter like a judge. If officers and GMs had to be referees on the guild playground all the time, the game would certainly become very un-fun, very quickly. As someone said on their application to our guild once: "I have three kids. I want to join a guild that's fun and mature. I don't want to have to babysit people online as well."
And that being said, my guild is *full* of parents, including my husband, myself and three other officers. We've all talked about the possibility of our respective kids playing the game, either seriously or joking about teaching the kid to farm ore and herbs. When it comes down to it, we know exactly what we'd want our kids to see and hear, and what we don't want. We know what we have to do to make the experience as enjoyable as possible for everyone: child, parent and guildies alike.
Tribunal Nov 19th 2010 4:12PM
@clundgren
I agree that everyone tells their story from their own point of view, but that would apply to the Mom as well. Your version could easily be just as tweaked to play to her side as the OPs could be.
Just because it sounds more reasonable to YOU doesn't mean it's the more reasonable version to everyone. That's why I like Robin's answer, since it doesn't lay fault and specifically asks "What are the normal guild chat policies" to know who was acting out more.
That is why the guild leaders should have handled it, even if both parties were being blathering idiots. They were -there-, they saw it, and they know the guild.
However, if the Mom doesn't have say, only guild chat, showing for her kid I would question her - and even that might be pushing it if she's going to get upset if he ever sees anything naughty. If you want to control what your kid is exposed to you have to control what they SEE, because you can't control what others do and say, try as you might. You can try and legislate it, or create rules, but to some people laws and rules are meant to be broken and sometimes the law goes way further than the original problem you were trying to correct. They are your standards and it's your child, it's up to no one (not even the child) but you to enforce them.
Scritch Nov 19th 2010 4:21PM
18+ with voice verification. Saves the headache!