Combat PvP While typically known for more PvE-oriented builds, combat has come into its own in terms of PvP viability. It plays differently -- combat has a beatdown feel to it, and the ability to break snares easier and more often is key to this. Combat is also a control-oriented spec that has a lot of tools to deal with casters. What the combat tree does is highlight a rogue's basic abilities and pushes them into overdrive, making it play the most like a "classic" rogue.
- Improved Recuperate Better self-healing and a damage reduction while Recuperate is active? Why yes, please, thank you. This is one of two talents other specs would go down the combat tree for ...
- Improved Sprint ... and this is the other. This talent guarantees a snare break every minute, which helps greatly against kiting. It probably still won't save you against frost mages, though. Consider using Glyph of Sprint (major) for an even more powerful speed boost which should see a lot of play in the battlegrounds. Imagine playing a worgen rogue with Darkflight at your disposal, too. Speed bursty goodness!
- Improved Kick This is important because this makes Kick require less precision. This means it doesn't matter if your opponents are trying to juke you or not, the blanket silence will get them, anyway. However, if you're confident about your skills (and Kick not getting avoided or anything like that), you might want to gamble with Glyph of Kick (major), which is a conditional 2-second reduction to Kick's cooldown. This prevents you from using Kick preemptively, but can also translate to a near total lockdown of an enemy caster if you always manage to interrupt him. With its energy cost down to 15, it's perfectly easy to spam, as well.
- EDIT: Reinforced Leather - I totally forgot to include this even though I'd made a mental note of it. Thanks to Crazyates for reminding me. This is actually worth something in PvP now for one major reason: armor penetration is dead. There will no longer be any AP-stacking warriors or other crazy thing that will make mincemeat of you. Resilience being what it is now, you'll want as much mitigation as you can get. This won't help you with spell damage, though ...
- Improved Gouge This is a beautiful PvP ability. This makes Gouge extremely easy to pull off at 15 energy and allows combat rogues to exert a lot of control over a fight. When glyphed with Glyph of Gouge (major), Gouge becomes an extremely powerful PvP talent that can be used at any time against any target within range, even those running away from you.
- Blade Twisting Finally, a talent that isn't an improved version of something. This talent effectively does for combat what Deadly Brew does for assassination -- eliminate the need for Crippling Poison. The bonus is that the snare isn't even a poison, which means it can't be removed through a dispel. This frees up your blades for more interesting stuff.
- Throwing Specialization A reworked ability that turns your Deadly Throw into an interrupt, as well. It's hefty at 35 energy, but as a means of closing the gap and interrupting spells, you won't need to cast Deadly Throw too often, anyway. This is part of combat's toolkit that makes it so potent against casters.
- Restless Blades This ability is important for PvP mostly for its reduction to Sprint's cooldown. This makes combat extremely resilient against kiting, especially since you can use Deadly Throw and consequently get to Sprint sooner.
Subtlety PvP This spec starts off on a good note primarily because
Shadowstep is so wonderful for PvP. The mobility that the specialization ability grants is superior mobility and even bypasses normal means of movement. Subtlety is an opener spec that requires the most planning in play. It is arguably the most difficult rogue PvP spec to play because you'll need to balance going in and out of stealth and because key abilities have facing requirements. Openers aren't as strong in a longevity environment, but it's subtlety's game, so you'll need to find ways to keep at it throughout the fight.
- Nightstalker You'll want this because you'll be in stealth more often than the average rogue. Faster movement speed is a basic for PvP, and the reduced cooldown to Stealth (although it won't come into play too often, since you'll probably be in combat) means you can pop in and out of stealth faster.
- Improved Ambush and Waylay You want to Ambush your opponent. Blizzard wants you to Ambush your opponent. Improved Ambush makes it perfectly clear that you will be Ambushing your opponent coming off stealth. Waylay doesn't have the same kind of survivability granted by a talent like Blackjack, but it does have the snare. This is useful because subtlety is pretty much the only spec that needs to use Crippling Poison, so any ensnaring ability helps.
- Elusiveness What the subtlety tree lacks in punch, it makes up for in ... elusiveness. This is an important talent that grants access to the class' most important PvP cooldowns about 30 percent faster. You'll also want to use Glyph of Cloak of Shadows (major) for physical damage reduction during Cloak of Shadows. This is pretty useful for those times when you're up against superior melee opponents.
- Energetic Recovery You'll be popping Recuperate quite a bit in PvP, which means you'll appreciate the extra energy that kicks in from this.
- Hemorrhage and Sanguinary Vein Basic damage talents that you'll pick up on any subtlety build, but I wanted to point out how important bleed effects are in PvP. It's the one DoT that's a complete pain to remove because it's a physical effect. Don't discount that because while your openers won't have the same impact in a long engagement, bleed will make a difference. That means, naturally, that you'll also be glyphed with Glyph of Hemorrhage (prime).
- Premeditation As much as openers and cooldown abilities have lost their punch in the new environment, you'll want to use them as much as you can, anyway. Premeditation allows you to make the most out of your openers.
- Enveloping Shadows The damage reduction isn't as great as Deadened Nerves, considering there just isn't as many AoE effects in play on the battlefield, but in a pinch, you can use it with Feint to virtually negate damage from powerful AoEs such as Bladestorm or Starfall. Combine it with Cloak of Shadows for even more damage-shrugging goodness.
- Cheat Death Still the best PvP talent in the tree, Cheat Death is your passive get out of jail free card.
- Preparation Longer engagements means more chances to blow cooldowns, and Preparation makes sure you get to use those cooldowns again. If anything, this raises your survivability significantly. You aren't going to be hardy, but at least you'll be slippery and annoying. That's a plus in PvP.
Overall it's an interesting transition to the expansion, with the most exciting and welcome change probably being the fix to Vanish. There's also
Combat Readiness waiting at level 81, which should pump up survivability even further and make other specs not miss Preparation as much. Assassination rogues will also feel a new and improved Backstab, making things a little more interesting. A few more days to go before we see new abilities on the battlefield!
Zach delivers your weekly dose of battlegrounds and world PvP in one crazy column. Find out how the Cataclysm talent tree redesign affects PvP, how sub-speccing will work at higher levels in the expansion, and how the new Azeroth will affect world PvP. Visit Blood Sport for the inside line on arena PvP.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Twill Nov 30th 2010 9:02PM
Awesome article. I have two questions though.
(I am a main-spec Druid, who excels at Balance, Restoration, and tanking. Whats missing? Cat DPS. What is a cat like? Rogues. What do I want to learn? Rogues!
I am leveling a new rogue, and I was wondering what specs you would recommend. I assume you will end up writing a leveling guide, but I want to know now, and the Rogue community seems helpful!
What should I do for leveling? This is my current plan:
2 Specs. Leveling PvE (solo, dungeons) and leveling PvP.
I am thinking combat / sub. (With 2 of the heirloom daggers, and 1 mace as my slow MH for non-dagger requiring moves.)
Twill Nov 30th 2010 9:03PM
/sigh.
Just realized this was written by the PvP columnist, not the rogue one. Questions still apply, but seem to be in the wrong article :P
also -- WTB edit/delete button
HeroJéz Nov 30th 2010 9:10PM
My 2 pence is this: Go Assassination from start to end... Mutilate is fun, poisons are fun and you'll probably get sick of Sinister Strike and Revealing Strike sounding exactly the same.. "Wuchaaww!" sounds constantly!
Twill Nov 30th 2010 9:23PM
Assasination eh?
hmm.
Rogue columnist, leveling guide and explanation of each spec please :D
I expect this on dec. 7th. Pretty please?
Byron Dec 1st 2010 2:24PM
Second Assasination, for PVE at least. Why?
1. Mutilate from level 10 is a beast. If you've got heirlooms, you'll be 1 and 2-shotting everything. Same with Sub when you're able to use Shadowstep, but SS has a ~20s cd, so you can't chain kill mobs with it, at least until higher levels where they don't die as quickly.
2. Assassination vs Combat: You're Energy-starved and combo-point flush, vs Energy flush and combo-point starved.
Hence I find Combat (in PVE leveling) is about spamming SS till you get 5 combo points, then Eviscerating. Pretty boring for 80 levels. Yeah it has some fun toys like Improved Sprint and Killing Spree, but over my time playing my rogue I've found I can live without them as Assassination. But I miss the Assass mechanics most when playing something else.
Assassination is a bit more strategic and varying. Assass generates combo points faster, but at a varying rate (assuming you've taken the required talents Ruthlessness and Seal Fate). So there's no set rotation, rather you're watching your combo points on the target, managing your energy, and using finishers (Envenom, S&D when it's down and there are still many mobs left in the pull, Expose Armor on bosses if you have the talent, etc.).
Sometimes you'll attack out of Stealth and get 5 combo points in the first 2 gcds - Cheap Shot or Ambush (2 cp) + Mutilate (2cp) + a crit from one of those (1cp). Then Envenom, or wait till Cheap Shot wears off and Kidney Shot. Waiting give a chance to regen Energy, so you can start to see where the strategy and decision-making come into play - do you poison & stun lock & regen energy, or poison + S&D, etc. etc.
Subtlety still for PvP leveling. Sub is the hardest rogue spec to play well inmho, since you've got several long cd's to manage and use effectively. Blow one at the wrong time and you've just wasted one of your major talents. The earlier you start playing it and leveling with it, the better you'll be at 85 with it.
Learn Sub and Assass well while leveling, and Combat will be easy to pick up at 85, easier at least than the other way around.
Having said that, I'm trying to think which rogue tree is most like a Cat Druid, and not having much success. Cats seem to have a little of each tree. Keep your bleeds up similar to Assass poisons and Sub bleeds. Energy starved and combo-point starved (relative to rogues), but with cd's like Berserk and talented Tiger's Fury to mitigate that, and combo-point generation is somewhat variable like Assass with Primal Fury. Pounce and Feral Charge are similar Shadow Step... etc. etc.
So I suppose you need to learn all 3 rogue trees if your intent is to use your rogue knowledge to improve your Cat skills.
Byron Dec 1st 2010 2:37PM
PS - just to elaborate on the part about 'waiting' as Assass (AS). AS is less spammy than Combat b/c Mutilate costs amost twice the Energy as Sinister Strike, and AS has much slower energy regen than Combat (except when Overkill is active).
So you can't sit there spamming your main attack like Combat does, rather AS rogues rely on S&D-hasted autoattacks (from the talent 'Cut to the Chase') + poisons for DPS, while having an extra gcd or two in between Mutilates to consider which yellow abilities to use (Mutilate? or something else?).
So for that reason, plus the variable combo-point generation, AS feels less spammy and more strategic than Combat.
Twill Nov 30th 2010 9:06PM
Since I am hijacking the post anyway, what is everyone's thoughts on Moonkin PvP at the moment? We are pretty OP with out DoTs, but everything else is kind of sub-par in my opinion. I find myself most successful with a DoT and GTFO strategy. I feel like an affliction warlock without the self-healing, but with more burst.
Dragoniel Dec 1st 2010 7:07AM
Depends on your targets.
I'm a feral druid myself and my best friend is balance druid. All I can say from hunting together and observing, moonkin is currently extremely strong in PvP. I would say stronger than even an frost mage.
AoE blanket silence + absolutely sick damage + very powerful heals + very high mobility + very strong CC = total ownage in PvP.
It will change in cataclysm, no doubt, but as of right now, it's damn godmode.
HeroJéz Nov 30th 2010 9:06PM
Funnily enough (or not, because no-one will care) I recently stepped into an active BG in my Assassination PvE Spec which has 0/1 Deadly Brew and because the fight had started, I couldn't change spec. So I went with it... PvP Gear, Assassination PvE Spec... and it was SO MUCH FUN! I honestly can't wait to go 31/0/10 at level 85. Maybe Imp Recup, but probably not.
Anyway... PvP was awesome.. I would open with a Glyphed Garrotte... Smash a Mutilate and Get Rupture up... Evasion or Cloak if need be (only if I was alone) and from there we were rocking. Mut, En, Mut, En... just DPSing the hell of of stuff until it was dead or I was!
I really missed the mobility of Shadowstep, but I'm happy to sacrifice that for a different style of fighting in BGs. Vile Poisons is just sickening for groups, too... The synergy between that and Deadly Brew (as you said, I think) is just ace.
I really hope we see more variety in Rogue specs for 85 PvP... I believe ShS will own all, but not by enough outside 1v1.
HeroJéz Nov 30th 2010 9:10PM
1/2 DB, sorry.
EDIT BUTTON PLSSSS
Byron Dec 1st 2010 2:47PM
>Mut, En, Mut, En
Interesting. Finishing with a 2 or 3 cp Envenom? That's always felt extremely weak to me. Were targets so low on hp by that time that you didn't need to build up to 5cp for the second Env?
Crazyates Nov 30th 2010 9:30PM
Question: How much of a melee dmg reduction does Reinforced Leather (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=79079) give at 85? I'd imagine that'd be worth a few points somewhere in there.
Zach Nov 30th 2010 9:31PM
Thank you for reminding me! I KNEW I'd missed something. Edited the post to reflect that.
kernelpanic Dec 1st 2010 12:20AM
Mitigation is the new rogue. The good ones you see in the BGs will be the ones that you cannot kill.
Saeadame Dec 1st 2010 2:00AM
Just as a side note, I'm pretty sure Sprint and Darkflight share a cooldown, so you can't use both in succession for a longer getaway. Since Darkflight's speed increase is less than Sprint's, rogues will probably just use Sprint.
Martinel Dec 1st 2010 3:29AM
Well...Sprint to get away, then a moment to recover and Darkflight to get back and murder the fools :p
sterny Dec 1st 2010 3:46AM
"you can use it with Feint to virtually negate damage from powerful effects"
You may think that it is 80% but are you sure?
Isn't it that it's only a 65%? Or is it 95%? I really don't know, I'm not sure with negative percentages, reckon you can check that?
Couvs Dec 1st 2010 9:37AM
I'm finding it fairly difficult, pre-expansion launch, to find a spec that really works for me in pvp now that our stuns are out the window. Assassination doesnt seem to do enough burst anymore, so I've been trying combat (Killing Spree has been a huge benefit if other enemy players are not too close in range). Got a question though about combat as a pvp spec:
What opinions are out there for the use of Revealing strike and bandit's guile in pvp? I currently am trying to make use of both for the increased dmg over time and higher dmg finishers, but i"m not sure how efficient it really is. I'm also wondering what tips are out there for energy regen, given that there's zero haste on pvp gear.
CrossEyed Dec 6th 2010 10:43AM
I'm wondering the same thing even though I don't think anyone is looking here anymore to answer it. Revealing strike might be okay as in its just 1 point for 20% stronger rupture or evis. Bandits guile at this point takes so long to build up in pve I don't know if it is worth the 3 points in pvp. I was just gonna skip it and see if I missed it, but I would like to get someone else who has more knowledge than me to give input on the subject.