@scherbaddie:

They changed a lot about threat to build it around Vengeance. If threat generation at 0 stacks were the same as it was before Vengeance, we would be completely overpowered once the buff started stacking. Accordingly, we're underpowered early in a pull and overpowered once we start getting thousands of extra AP. I don't think the ability needs a nerf so much as a redesign. Something that starts out with more stacks and then tapers off, for example.

@Surtur:

I'm a hardcore raider; I understand how these mechanics work. We are using MDs and Tricks. My point is that 8k or 9k TPS is very, very low compared to what DPS put out with their normal rotation. Once Vengeance starts stacking, it's not a problem, but early in pulls it can often be a close thing. It's also very noticeable on trash, especially in combination with reduced AOE aggro. And yes, I am up against very good DPS--having formed just this year and raiding only three nights a week, we're top 200 US and looking to push higher in Cata.