Gold Capped: Why deep undercutting on the auction house works

In a thread in the comments on my last article in which I had advised a reader to undercut his glyph competition heavily instead of camping the auction house, I got another comment that got me thinking about pricing. It basically stated that every time the commenter undercut heavily on glyphs, he would immediately get re-undercut by a few copper unless his price was down to the point of no profit.
I've written a little about the topic of pricing and undercutting before, but I felt it was time for a refresher. I'm going to start off by quoting what I wrote last March: "If everyone is knocking a copper off the next highest auction, they only way to undercut successfully is to try camp the AH and make sure you're always the competitor who has visited most recently. Needless to say, this is a colossal waste of your time." This is as true now as it was then.
A colossal waste of time
It takes me 15 minutes to list my whole inventory of glyphs. If my biggest competitor and I sat there for a day and did nothing but cancel and relist with a 1 copper undercut, we'd basically split the market as evenly as if we posted everything at the same price, assuming it took us the same amount of time to complete a posting cycle. Since few people have the ability to camp the AH, the variable everyone tries to control is how long it's been since they last posted, reasoning that the more often they post, the more sales they'll make.
This is completely accurate; however, it's a pretty terrible return on your investment of time. Every single person who thinks this way (and there are a lot of them) splits the market according to who relists most frequently. Aside from getting clever about adding your competition to your friends list, the only way to get outside of this dynamic is to increase the size of the pie that everyone is splitting.
The answer is 42
The best way to increase the size of the market for those of us who can only relist every day or two is quite simply to undercut more heavily. There's a universal truth about any market that we can take advantage of in this situation: The lower a price gets, the more units will sell. The more units that sell, the more likely you are to sell your stock. Sure, you'll still get undercut (especially in the glyphs world), but since the price is lower, more buyers will actually buy the glyphs they're searching for. Eventually, everyone willing to undercut you at your price will run out of stock, and your auction will sell.
Also, competitors will be less likely to craft the glyph, because it's less profitable. These days, glyphs cost three times as many inks as they used to, and the only way to get the inks taken by a large number of the glyphs is to mill old-world herbs, many of which go for as much as 60g a stack.
I can hear the complaints in the comments already about my logic. Surely, glyphs are like toilet paper and deodorant: People will pay the fallback price for glyphs because they need them, and they just buy the lowest price auction on the auction house, regardless of how high this price is. Alas, this inflexible demand is a myth. Just because you have the lowest price auction when someone searches for a glyph they want doesn't mean they'll automatically buy it. They may scoff at the idea of paying 230 for something that takes three inks to create and go talk to a scribe friend instead, or they may simply decide they'll be able to hold off a while or use an alternate glyph. The lower the price is, the less likely these things are to happen and the more likely auction house searchers are to buy the glyph.
There's a certain price level at which the increase in the number of glyphs sold doesn't make up for the lower unit price. That point is impossible to pinpoint without access to sales data from your competitors and would probably vary wildly based on the desirability of a glyph, as well as how common the ability to craft it is. You can generalize the principle and refuse to undercut heavily below a certain threshold (mine is 30g), reasoning that even if this glyph stays in your inventory until we're all raiding level 105 bosses, at least nobody else made any money off it.
The best part of undercutting heavily
I've noticed that there's prevalent theme among people who sell glyphs: They believe that raising the average price of glyphs will always net them more profits even if it reduces the sales volume, and they like flexing their economic muscles. This leads them to do things like buying all stock below a certain price and relisting it at their fallback. This is a huge contributor to the profits of the deep undercutter, as every so often (assuming your threshold is set high enough), you'll sell a large portion of your stock at a profit in one night.
Your threshold is key for this: Nothing is more frustrating than seeing your hard-crafted glyphs selling to a competitor for less than it cost you to make them. If someone gets so excited by the logic in the first half of this article that they neglect to read this part, take full advantage and take as much of their stock below your manufacturing cost as you can get your hands on. That said, assuming they don't keep posting below cost, the market will settle into a cycle in which prices start off high and gradually reduce overall as you undercut the most profitable glyphs heavily -- at which point either the demand will pick up and empty the AH, allowing people to restart the cycle at the fallback price of whoever posts first, or some strong-like-bull, smart-like-tractor scribe will reset the market by buying everything you have for sale.
Filed under: Economy, Gold Capped
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Reader Comments (Page 4 of 4)
Boxington Dec 2nd 2010 8:54PM
@cincipon: It's pretty easy to create estimates of total income if you have time-series scan data (auto pulled and organized by an addon) where you take a scan every 10 minutes (or as fast as your server's scans go). The export as I have it set up carries seller name with each auction posted, and so you can see over time the intervals where people post, and by subtracting out the missing auctions, get an estimate of the percent that were sold instead of just relisted. It's by no means accurate, but it's not biased, and so therefore is a decent estimator. You can argue the validity of this particular calculation, but I'll just share my personal experience that it has very closely lined up with directly observable things, like my own (income * percentage of market coverage). But if you're stats minded at all, the thing to note is that even if the measure has lots of variance, it's still shows up as significant given how large the shock to the equilibrium is when the new goblin enters.
But, let me correct your comment: "Glyphs are moderately elastic ... ON MY SERVER." Don't assume that the elasticity of your server's glyph market is the same as all others. Now let me quote from my comment: "market conditions absolutely could be different for Basil and it could actually be the correct strategy for his server." That's the flaw of so many Auctioneer Interneters. They see something that worked for them and assume it applies in all situations, when the conclusion most obviously depends on the particular market situation.
Basil Berntsen Dec 2nd 2010 11:17PM
There are many possible market situations where heavy undercutting won't make you any more profits, however using a 1c undercut won't change this, and if you undercut heavily, at least you're costing your competition profits.
cincipon Dec 2nd 2010 10:10PM
@Boxington
When a glyph disappears in a ten minute window, the likelyhood that it was sold is far less than the likelyhood that it was cancelled and is in the process of being relisted. As for the shock to equilibrium, you are misusing the term. If someone is posting glyphs at a resonable profit margin, but far lower than your "equilibrium" then you exist in some kind of lucky oligopoly, and likely camp the AH in an effort to push people out, BUT... it is not equilibrium, and you sound like the type of person I was talking about with the catheter and IV, with your scanning the AH every ten minutes and lengthy calculations and spreadsheet management... not the type of person talked about in maximizing gold/hr.
In any event, it's not really a server by server issue... if you can sell something for a decent profit margin, and that is drastically undercutting the current supply, then something is wrong with the market, and you can very likely guarantee sales by pricing intelligently (at your reasonable price). It's axiomatic.
Enjoy what you do. I hope people can sift through the chaff here.
Josh Dec 3rd 2010 9:19AM
I do undercutting each and every day I'm at the AH. I've bottomed out markets on Ore, Leather, Herbs, Potions, Glyphs, you name it.
For example, if someone is selling Firebloom (just chose a random herb) for 20g a stack, I will sell all of the stacks I have for 10g. I'll sell every one of them. People see the undercut, and lower their prices. Next thing you know, prices have dropped to 5-8 gold a stack. I buy them all. Then, when prices return to 20g a stack, I sell all of the stacks I have bought and gathered for 10g again. Wash, rinse, repeat.
The Ore market is going through this on my server on a regular basis. It's not uncommon to see Iron, Mithril, or Thorium in the 10g-15g price range, and see them jump to 30g the next day.
netokituco Dec 3rd 2010 11:40AM
Bingo! You don't even have to craft anymore, they do it for you... So nice.
josh.morgart Dec 3rd 2010 11:49AM
I still do some crafting, but not as much as I used to. I wish Blacksmithing items would sell for more. Leatherworking too. Vests, Weapons, Armor...that could be a true profession and that is one part of the game that feels a little...flat. It was disappointing when I realized I could make cool weapons, but most of the REALLY cool ones were BoP. A blacksmith should be able to make weapons/armor and have a HUGE list of recipes to choose from, but I guess town vendors should sell good weapons too and we don't see that either.
To shortcut that part of the game, I play the AH a bit. I am in a 4 person guild, and I don't do many raids or dungeons or PvP, so I don't get the super awesome weapons like others do. I use the money I make to buy mounts and buy things my guildmates and I need for questing around Azeroth. It's not malicious, and I'm not being greedy just to get the most gold or anything...I'm just trying to play the game to have fun.
samiamknot Dec 3rd 2010 9:22AM
The problem with the glyph market is that it is no longer predictable. Once a toon is equipped then it is done. There is a finite market per server. The steep undercutter method can only work when there is a large enough consumer base to purchase product and granted at this moment that base is there it will dry up to a fraction of what is present. The new/returning players will be leveling quite quickly and and all of our "Let's go look at new content" toons will slow down or even stop at 60 as we reach outland again. At that point our market fizzles.
Where I see profit to be made is after Dec 7th when inscription changes once again... blizzard has been so kind to make the trade in value of one ethereal ink to ten of the new blackfallow. This will raise the production cost of all glyphs needing this ink. Quite a few of these also tend to be some of the higher priced glyphs right now. A savvy goblin will be buying or farming outland herbs right now and milling them into ink. The ink alone only has to post at the value of 10 blackfallow to make a profit or the glyphs can be made and sold at market cost making a greater profit do to the disparity of cost materials used. The best part of this is that while the market of glyph consumers dries up, your inscriptionist market is only increasing from all of the new people out there.
ohkanada Dec 3rd 2010 11:02AM
Been a long time glyph seller. I stopped playing last year and returned a few days after 4.01 came out. Since then I have profitted about 140k gold. On my server (low population), I do the undercut by 1 silver method. I usually cancel/relist in the morning, when I get home from work and before bed. I typically sell 100+ glyphs a day averaging about 50 gold per glyph.
For herbs, I either use my druid or I buy on the AH. I track my milling rates and costs and try to keep the ink cost to 4 gold which makes each glyph cost me about 13 gold. Certain herbs mill better than others so that makes a difference on how much I will buy them for on the AH.
I won't put up a glyph for less than 20 gold. I also only post 1 of each glyph and once it sells I will make it again. I do purchase some cheap glyphs but try not to go crazy with that.
I have certainly read about the deep undercutting method, but I am happy selling my 100 glyphs for about 3700 gold profit per day. With the deep undercutting method I would need a lot more glyphs in stock and would spend a lot more time milling and creating glyphs.
I wasn't quite as prepared for the ink selling change as I thought I was. I did mill all my herbs and used most of it for the lower inks but I have ran out of jadefire and ethereal the past few days.
Eirik Dec 3rd 2010 1:34PM
Some time before 4.0.1, I was competing with someone who would do the cancel-and-relist thing several times a day.
At a certain point, I determined that if I could not beat him at selling glyphs, I could at least set the market price. He would undercut me, I would deeply undercut him ... repeatedly. My point being that if I'm not in it for the money, I can easily suck any profit out of the market for him.
It helped that I was farming my own materials, of course.
TheArtificer Dec 5th 2010 8:57PM
@Eirik
So you're griefing the Auction House?
Smark Jan 14th 2011 3:21PM
I am very new to WoW and started playing around in the AH but I see you keep mentioning manufacturing cost...how are you determining this? As of now I only craft with what I get myself so it costs nothing but some time. Im just trying to clarify what youre talking about. My impression is that most high lvl crafters dont bother getting their material themselves and buy it from the AH. Is this what you imply?