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12-04-2010 @ 7:38PM
You know, I like Garrosh more and more lately. I was absolutely disgusted by the idea of him being Warchief when the rumors started pouring out, but the way it played out in my head at the time, he was essentially kicking Thrall out of the position then murdering Cairne to celebrate his coup.The way it's actually played out, Garrosh now seems like an incredibly interesting character. He still has a massive chip on his shoulder, he has no confidence in his leadership ability, but he also has an incredible ambition. He has a vision for how to make the Horde great, and it's a very different vision than Thrall. My troll character may be wary of him, but my tauren has sworn her allegiance Garrosh's Horde.
12-04-2010 @ 8:09PM
I've read the article posted in the community site. And I must say that I still hate Garrosh:While the NE may have been pricks in the past, they certainly have a right to, specially towards the orcs. By attacking Ashenvale, Garrosh has made things even more worst!The Night Elfs have always been arrogant, but the new lore implemented after the Shattering shows that they are starting to move away from that. In fact, they are starting to become far more honorable than the Tauren. (Albeit, only the Draenei beat them in terms of a sense of morality). Perhaps its somewhat late; still it doesn't give anyone the right to come and literally destroy the Night Elf's home.The Night Elfs have been stretched thin and they have lost so much...Yes, because of their arrogance, but now its just plainly messed up. How would like someone coming to destroy your house(or a tornado striking), after already being robbed?Back to the community site story, a female orc tells Garrosh that his people have to pay their price for killing Cenarius (who btw helped save Azeroth) and their crimes. Yet, Garrosh turns around and goes all out on Ashenvale...how sickening.I'am not saying that the orcs didn't need the lumber or w/e, but he could have struck a deal, specially when Varian has shown before that he wanted to end the strife between the two factions. In the story, we see how he really only wants the glory in things (He threatened Blackfist only to get on Thrall's good side!) Overall, Garrosh is just hotheaded, who has no clue about the big picture...Its the reason why the Trolls hate him. The only good thing that has come out of his leadership is that he is being a total ass to the Forsaken and even then his work seems questionable. (WTF did Gilneas do to them? Why did they have to bomb poor SouthShore? Why do they need more land? Why must they kill, instead of waiting for humans to die naturally?)Anyway, Garrosh could be doing a lot of things differently and so far he has only been shown to be a glory hog.At least Varian has some attachment to this people, he may have a temper, but we can't entirely blame him for it. (And aside from feeling bad about his Father, Garrosh has no place in thinking he can do whatever he wants in a world that doesn't even belong to the darn orcs in the first place.)
12-04-2010 @ 8:18PM
I kinda did a "wut" too when he came up, but I also figured from the start that if Thrall had faith in him then there must have been some potential in there that we couldn't. And if he is Thrall's choice to lead then I will serve under him.And besides, with his war hunger the game's quest stories should get preeeeeeety interesting lol!
12-04-2010 @ 8:54PM
@Astrumsenior ~ You said that Garrosh should have "Cut a deal" to get lumber. The thing is, the Horde did cut a deal for trade with the night elves. This deal was brought to and end by the NE's and they refused to trade with the horde anymore. Leaving the Orcs in durotar in a seriously percarious place with regards to supplies and you know, food for their families and such. (The little piddling things) basically the orcs were watching poverty start to rise and watching families and children starting to go hungry because of the cut off of trade and the Night Elves refusal to com back to the barganing table. Basically garrosh was left with 2 choices, either watch his people starve, or aggresivly start taking what they needed from their holdings in Ashenvale. He chose to not watch orc children starve to death.Now, that doesn't excuse certain other actions taken by him. When that Alliance warship drifted into Horde waters, while he was technically in his right to execute every sailor on that boat, his decision to sink it and send the survivors back was definitely a douchbag move on his part since it was pretty obvious it wasn't an intentional act of aggression on the part of the Alliance.
12-04-2010 @ 10:04PM
@ Ghrog - My memory is a bit spotty, but wasn't the ambush-from-behind that the Horde did while the Alliance were fighting Scourge in Northrend the NE's reason for ending the lumber trade deal? I think that's a pretty justifiable reason for suspending trade relations. And anyway, they have Azshara now, which is full of lumber, food, and other resources, so it's not like they have no other options.
12-04-2010 @ 11:13PM
@blissfireTaking a quick look at my copy of The Shattering, Thrall states that the Wrathgate was the reason why the Night Elves had stopped trade relations with the Horde, which means it is probably a justifiable position from the Alliance point of view and an unjustifiable one from the Horde point of view.
12-04-2010 @ 11:46PM
You're missing a big point of that story on the community site. That bit of the story with Krenna and her sister was there specifically to create a dichotomy with Thrall and Thralls beliefs, which were established in Rise of the Horde and The Shattering.Thrall believes that the orcs, as a people, have to pay the price for the wrongs that were commited by them when they were under the influence of the Burning Legion. He settled in the barren wastes of Durotar specifically to impose hardship upon his people. He believes that it will serve to repay for the sins of the Horde and to strengthen his people.Garrosh believes that the orcs have suffered enough, especially as many of the current population of Orgrimmar were only children during the Second War, or were even born later on, in Internment Camps or in Orgrimmar itself. More importantly, he believes that his own father gave up his life in order to right those wrongs, and that his father's sacrifice should be considered enough.The reality of the situation is that Durotar lacks resources. Almost all of their lumber and food is imported from beyond Durotar. The common people of Orgrimmar scratch their livings off of barren rock and dry rivers. As The Shattering approached, the elemental disturbances worsened situations considerably, bringing on drought.If you know the lore, you'd know that the night elves cut off all trade with the Horde following the War in Northrend. You'd know that the Theramore Peace Summit was a stunning failure thanks to the Twilight Cult. You'd also know that the night elves blame the Horde for attrocities commited by the Twilight Cult.At this point, they are beyond negotiation. And the lack of supplies is literally causing orcs in Durotar to starve.Garrosh is simply not willing to allow that to continue.Ironically, you say Varian has attachement to his people, yet in the comics and novels he's shown as little more than a warmonger. To such an extent that it actually repulses Anduin at times. In the comic, Varian even considers that there may be something wrong with himself because his thirst for combat is so great. Meanwhile, there are homeless and dissidants and uprisings right within his own backyard that go largely unchecked while he rolls out warmachines around the world to fight orcs.
12-05-2010 @ 12:54AM
@ mingdi9 - Ahh, thanks for checking! :)
12-05-2010 @ 4:02AM
@SuzakuYou are aware that Varian once again helped restore trade relations afterwards right? And that he also was the one to agree to these terms of peace right? It's all in the book!Also you can keep talking about how the Orcs need wood, but there is no need to take it from the Night elves, you got Ashara, and there is never an excuse to invade other people's lands.And I find it ironic that a Hord eplayer is calling Varian a Warmonger.Ever heard of Ashenvale/Hillsbrad/Southshore/Lordeoran/All the battlegrounds?Despite all the Horde aggression, Varian has kept himself calm because he knew the threat of the lich king. Only after he saw that the Horde pretty much created a weapon of mass destruction behind his back, and what they did to the undercity did he went apeshit.Maybe next time you might consider putting other people in charge of your armies? :P
12-05-2010 @ 5:08AM
",,,, and there is never an excuse to invade other people's lands."Well, that's exactly backwards. There's always an excuse. Excuses are easy.And sometimes there's even a reason.
12-05-2010 @ 7:10AM
@NielsdeJONG, Azshara doesn't really have much in the way of easy lumber. There is a Goblin operation there cutting trees, but nowhere near the scale needed.Varian and Garrosh are both warmongers. Arguing that your faction leader is the honorable, misunderstood one is something both sides have been doing for a long time, and is more pointless than ever.Battlegrounds rather need participation from both sides- otherwise they aren't battlegrounds, they're slaughters. Both Horde and Alliance have invaded areas with Cataclysm.As a Horde player, the Alliance actions in Southern Barrens appalled me. Camp Taurajo had always been a favourite, and is now where I look for world PVP.
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