Drama Mamas: Making a fresh start after an honest mistake
Drama Mamas Lisa Poisso and Robin Torres are experienced gamers and real-life mamas -- and just as we don't want our precious babies to be the ones kicking and wailing on the floor of the checkout lane next to the candy, neither do we want you to become known as That Guy on your realm.
The Drama Mamas roundup post with followup from letters we've featured in previous Drama Mamas columns will run in just a few more weeks. So there's still time to send us an email at DramaMamas@wow.com if you would to share what's happened with your situation since we last heard from you.
Dear Drama Mamas,
I started playing the game about a month after The Burning Crusade was released. I was still a kid, and gave my toon a foolish name. I know my name gets some weird responses, and when I race change to a worgen in Cataclysm, I am going to change my name.
Anyway, I play on a RP server ... which only happened because my brother (who now does not play) randomly picked it when he started. I started playing after him and thus chose the same server. My server is fairly weak when it comes to progression guilds, with only one having defeated heroic Lich King-25 (and it was after 4.0.1). For the duration of my Wrath WoW career, I was in a mid-level progression guild for my server, which got to 11/12 in ICC Regular. I was fairly disappointed, because I really want to get an achievement mount. The guild leader gave up trying to lead, and this week he joined the #2 guild on the server. He said he still plans to lead the guild I am in on his alt, but I know that is not going to work out. You can't lead a progression guild on an alt, while competing for server firsts on your main.
Because of his leaving, I want to find a new raiding guild, and I want one that will be more "hardcore." Thus, I applied to the same guild my old GM did, as I usually beat him in DPS meters, and he got in -- so I thought I would too. The new guild agreed to give me a trial run. I thought it went well, as we had zero issues, and I held my DPS against the regulars who far out-geared me. The regular raiders actually complimented me on my adaptability for learning hard modes for the first time and that my DPS was great for the gear I was in.
The group was fun, and with all the hard modes they did, a lot of the gear was an upgrade for me. The recruitment officer said I was free to roll but that I would only get items if nobody else wanted them, and I agreed. Because of this, I ended up rolling on a lot of loot and was declined almost all of it. I thought this was perfectly understandable and only rolled in case nobody else wanted it. I do admit though, it was excessive. The GM told me to stop rolling on loot, so I did. In the end though, I was declined. I didn't think it was that big of a deal, but I guess the GM was really annoyed. I was sad, but not angry, as there are other guilds.
I then applied to another guild (on the same day as my other rejection), but was immediately rejected. They told me this: "We received some internal feedback regarding your behavior in previous raid groups. We were told that you have a tendency to be pompous and self-serving in your pursuits, that you weren't a team player."
I was shocked. I had never been declined like this. I first was worried that I gave off this impression regularly and started asking people I knew to give me an honest critique. My old GM said this: "You're a good player, and you know how the game works. However, you're not very good at presenting yourself to strangers." I realized then that my absentmindedness with loot had completely killed my chance of joining a competitive raiding group. Also, I later learned that the guilds talk to each other about who is applying.
What can I do now? A friend recommended server transferring, which I am considering. I have a bunch of alts though, and I do not want to leave them behind. I can wait until after my race/name change and pretend I server transferred and apply to a third guild. I also was wondering what you would recommend in terms of how to act to improve my image, and what is the best thing to do in first impressions.
Thanks!
Sad & and Wanting to Improve
- Don't pretend to be someone you're not. A new name won't change the past. Determined guilds and officers use tools such as WoWProgress to check out applicants for shiestiness, so you're fairly likely to get caught at your game. It's also fairly likely you'll eventually say or do something to connect you with your past identity and other characters. Most importantly, though, pretending to be someone else is just wrong -- and you deserve better.
- The grass really is greener. That's a pretty little metaphor -- much prettier, in fact, than the one my own guild tosses around in situations like this: "You've peed in your own pool." Get outta the water and go find another swimming hole. A realm full of people with reservations about your character is far from the place you want to hang your hat to enjoy your game time. This is your chance to find the right guild, the right realm, the right mix of people ... Your vistas are wide open before you.
- There's never been a better time to start fresh. You can change realms, factions, races, looks, names ... Or start fresh and see WoW from the start through the eyes of a race or faction or class you haven't tried before. There'll be plenty of raiding groups beginning Cataclysm content later on, once players have finished bringing up new characters and alts. The opportunities for finding a new raiding guild should stay open for quite some time.
- Don't worry about your alts. It's the beginning of a new expansion. XP flows like wine, and bringing up a new crew should be easy and more enjoyable than ever in the newly revised world. If you're starting out alone on a new realm, take a couple of gathering professions at first. You'll find yourself rolling in cash and resources sooner than you think.
- You chose your current server because of your brother who no longer plays.
- It's an RP server and you don't RP.
- Your server is "fairly weak when it comes to progression guilds."
While honesty is always the best policy, that doesn't mean you have to go to your new server carrying your bad reputation with you, like prisoner 24601 showing his parole papers to all prospective employers. Everyone deserves a clean slate, particularly if you want to pull a Jean Valjean and use it to be better. You don't put that temp, part-time job you got fired from as a kid on your resumé, because you learned your lesson and don't need that black mark following you around. You also don't need to put your previous server's guild experience on your new apps. Since you are working hard to not be that same guildie, it's just not indicative of your current behavior.
Now I'm going to paraphrase some tips I gave to Raiding While Female to help you make a good first impression:
- Let your actions do the talking. Keep quiet in Vent and guild/app chat unless absolutely necessary, until you are accepted and out of your initial probation period. Show that you are the player they want you to be; no need to tell them.
- Be uber. Work on your skills and your teamwork. Be the best of your class, and they will want to keep you around.
- Be humble. There's always something new to learn. Listen to advice, even if you already know what they are telling you. Keep your mind open to new ideas.
- Be patient about loot. If you're not sure if it's appropriate to roll on a piece of loot, ask permission in whispers before rolling. The loot will come. It's more important to get in good with a group of people you enjoy playing with than to have the best gear first.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news





Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
Maribel Dec 10th 2010 5:33PM
Yeah, I feel like there's something missing too. I can see the first guild getting annoyed if he's rolling on everything - it's late in the expansion cycle, how much do upgrades matter? - but not to the point of warning other guilds he might apply to about him. I suspect there's something else about the way he presents himself that he's not mentioning or maybe not even realizing.
Dril Dec 10th 2010 5:45PM
I got the impression that it was more about the fact that the original writer was consistently rolling against people; not just went loot wasn't wanted. Now, personally, if I was leading a raid and they kept rolling despite being told clearly at the start to only do so if no one else wanted it, I'd start getting annoyed. Fast.
Obviously, you shouldn't not roll either, but just wait and see if people actually want the item; if no one does, then you roll, not as soon as it drops.
I kind of sympathise though that the RL should probably have said something, but then again, it was a trial and they're not there to babysit you. Although "not a team player" suggests something more was happening; it could just be they didn't like your personality. Sucks but there you go, it happens.
Brett Porter Dec 10th 2010 5:47PM
Yea... after re-reading the letter and the comments, I'm wondering if it isn't some combination of what Pyro and Kaphik said. I don't think we're getting the full story... would be nice if Drama Mamas could some day hear from both sides and rule on it!
Robin Torres Dec 10th 2010 5:58PM
If the letter writer does lack social skills, does it change the advice? Do you think he should stay on the server where he won't be given another chance to improve?
lisapoisso Dec 10th 2010 6:24PM
Check out the very first paragraph -- the writer feels it's important to mention RIGHT OFF THE BAT that he chose a "foolish name" that "gets some weird responses." This is someone who's working with a significant social handicap, one that's so bad that the writer has already decided he inevitably is going to change it.
You better believe that foolish name is creating a bad impression right off the bat.
Maribel Dec 10th 2010 7:00PM
Robin - I don't think it changes the advice at all. Sometimes servers are just a bad fit. A server transfer was the best decision I ever made in WoW, even if it was a difficult one. It's just also natural for readers to put themselves into the situation, or identify the letter writer with someone they've encountered. So it's not just "should he transfer?" Yeah, most likely. He should also stop quoting song lyrics in full in trade and/or guild chat, or holding forth in Trade about how Blizz is catering to Evil Casuals by making T9 purchasable with emblems from heroics while running heroics for emblems to buy T9, or hitting on the GM's wife. Not that he's actually doing any of these things! But I've seen other players do them. If he transfers to another server under the assumption that rolling on loot and having a stupid name were his great sins, he's probably just going to annoy a new server.
And Lisa - Yeah, I'm on an RP server, and while I don't RP, I have a knee-jerk negative reaction to some kinds of names. I'm sure that contributes to the reception he got, but it's something he already knows he needs to fix.
Pyromelter Dec 11th 2010 12:22AM
Lisa, I agree that your advice is good in terms of him playing wow.
The point that I think I wanted to make is that if this person has some other social issues, a server change and name change won't help that. I'm not saying he needs to see a psychologist or life-coach, but I think what I'm saying is that he may find himself in the same situation again if there is some deeper social issue. In which case the suggestions you guys gave out would be more of a band-aid than a real solution.
gamerunknown Dec 11th 2010 7:48AM
I think the GMs statement was probably quoted verbatim - it sounds very reasonable and diplomatic. If I was making up a villain I'd have him spew hyperbolic vitriol. The criticism might not provide a clear goal to work for, but at least hints to something he can work on. Perhaps there are details that he's missing, perhaps the GM just wanted to put a spin on a decision he knew was excessive. But I doubt we'll ever get the fully story in either case.
Dreyja Dec 10th 2010 5:22PM
There are no words for how much I love that song.
That is all. :)
Doomprophet Dec 10th 2010 5:39PM
Um terrible advice. Why is no one pointing out that old Gm is clearly an asshole? i mean come on, banned after first offense with no warning? that alone is extreme, not to mention the so called offense is absurd. Why wouldn't someone roll on gear thats an upgrade for them? that just doesn't make sense to me. and they didn't give him a single gear upgrade?
i guess this is why ive always enjoyed arenas more than raids. effing gms
Robin Torres Dec 10th 2010 5:56PM
So you think he should stay on the server? Where there are only a few guilds, all talking to each other and blacklisting him?
Doomprophet Dec 10th 2010 7:24PM
@ Robin
No, I think we all agree on he should do substantively. Move servers for sure. I'm just saying he was clearly a victim of bullying. Anyone working as an advice-giver should be alert to the most common problem in human history. This guy is asking if he did anything wrong, and the important answer to give him is: no, you were the victim.
By using parole papers as a metaphore for him, you essentially say "thats right, u were the bad guy. Straighten up." I think he was the victim. I think he needs reassurance of that.
I think this is also a good time to point out the folly of trial memberships too. I wouldn't use them, or join a guild that did. Putting someone on trial says you live in a us vs them world, and he's one of them until further notice. You want someone to be a team player? Try making them a team member.
The GM may be the boss, but any self-respecting employee expects to be paid from day one.
Gm's using trial memberships are like fraternity brothers hazing recruits, or law firms hiring unpaid interns. They're bullies looking for volunteers. Avoid them.
Kallix Dec 10th 2010 10:05PM
As a GM for the past 2 years, I have to tell you that trial periods are the way to go. For at least a year I tried to make our recruiting welcoming for members, so people wouldn't feel like they were applying for a job. Know where it got me? A good 50% of our applicants would leave within the first two weeks, usually along with gear that some of my long term members could have used.
Is it the end of the world if the odd piece of loot doesn't stay in the guild? Of course not, but people start asking questions about guild policy when, over long periods of recruiting trying to get enough people in to raid, a lot of loot is going to players who leave the guild shortly afterwards. GM's have to make tough decisions sometimes, but normally if a lot of successful guilds operate in a certain way, its because that way works best, and I spent over a year finding that out the hard way.
In this letter, I'll admit the GM seems a bit extreme - like he's yelling at someone for following his own loot policy, but I honestly don't think we got the whole story, and that the writer was doing other things to annoy the GM. Good GM's don't blacklist people just for rolling on loot too often, and bad GM's don't stay GM's for long.
Saelle Dec 10th 2010 10:18PM
@ Doomprophet - All guilds have personalities and all it takes is a few members that don't fit with the group to start drama. That's why most successful guilds require a trial period before allowing full membership. A trial membership isn't akin to being an employee it is more like a job interview. Most people do everything in their power to create a favorable opinion in a job interview and they should do the same thing as a trial member. That means showing up on time, having all the appropriate consumables, knowing the fights, and going out of their way to be deferential to existing members. Yes it is a bit demeaning but just like in the real world it is part of the price necessary to get into a good company/guild.
I've been a recruiting officer in a successful raiding guild since the start of Burning Crusade and I always give this advice to every applicant. I'm always saddened when they ignore the advice and do something like spamming general chat in the middle of a raid instead of at least appearing to be getting ready for the next boss. It's too bad as I'm sure many of them were good players. The thing is guilds don't have many ways to determine if someone is a good fit and if a player can't be on their best behavior during their trial, most won't take the chance.
Doomprophet Dec 11th 2010 3:51AM
@ kallix
Hey, like I said, I spend most of my time doing arenas and BGs, not raids, perhaps precisely because of the philosophy differences were expressing now.
Yes from YOUR perspective you guild does better when you withhold loot for the longterm members, but from the other guy's perpective, he has zero chance at getting upgrades. All of a sudden he's asking himself if he was told a specific date that would entitle him to loot. See, the trick is to remind yourself that your not the center of the universe.
That loot dropped because the new guy showed up and helped kill that boss. By any reasonable standard, he helped "create" that loot. It wouldn't be there if he wasn't. He does have a right to roll on that loot. Yes, it would be better for you if you didn't give him his fair share, but thats like saying its okay to take my lunch money because its gets you a free meal. There's no such thing as a free meal.
Now there's a middle-ground here. You could have a policy that longterm members get a +10 modifier to their rolls to represent their seniority, but to tell a guy he has ZERO right to loot, and that he's worth nothing to the team. That's far too harsh.
I just hate the title of this article. It was an honest mistake! As if was kind of you to forgive the guy who had the immaturity to actually ask to be paid for the work he did.
Hangk Dec 10th 2010 5:26PM
Let me get this straight: you were told that you could get loot in this raid only if nobody else wanted it, and in almost every case, someone else wanted (and received) the item.
I'm having a hard time seeing what you did that was so bad that it's irreparably damaged your reputation on the server. Don't you actually have to, y'know, ninja some loot, before you get branded a loot ninja?
Sounds like your offense was raising your hand when the master looter said "Who wants this?" If this is really the whole of the story, I'm sorry you're getting so much hassle, and you should definitely server transfer because your current server appears to be full of jerks.
Twill Dec 11th 2010 2:12AM
When there are only 5 guilds that killed Lich King on 25, and they all don't want you, you are boned. You can join guild #15 who is 11/12, but it's not going to get you a Deathwing kill in Cataclysm, and who deliberately wants to not be with the best that they can handle?
iceveiled Dec 10th 2010 5:27PM
Great song. Les Miserable is SOOO good. :)
Kaphik Dec 10th 2010 5:31PM
Here's what really happened: your old GM who was in the new guild you were trialing for put in a bad word against you. You did as you were asked, you were told you can roll on loot but wouldn't get any if others who had priority wanted it, you did your job well and did as they asked. You're old GM got jealous and said something. He's obviously not the best of people if he abandoned his raid group for greener pastures leaving the rest of you to fend for yourselves.
Do you have a lot of friends on the server? As in enough to make sticking around worthwhile? If not, I'd jump ship and get yourself onto a server that is better for you. Good luck!
Hangk Dec 10th 2010 5:41PM
^^ This. I wondered if it wasn't something like that, but being an Aspie I tend to leave theorizing about others' social motivations to the better qualified ;)