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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsDrama Mamas: Making a fresh start after an honest mistake
by Robin Torres 
Dec 10th 2010 at 5:00PM
Drama Mamas Lisa Poisso and Robin Torres are experienced gamers and real-life mamas -- and just as we don't want our precious babies to be the ones kicking and wailing on the floor of the checkout lane next to the candy, neither do we want you to become known as That Guy on your realm.
The Drama Mamas roundup post with followup from letters we've featured in previous Drama Mamas columns will run in just a few more weeks. So there's still time to send us an email at DramaMamas@wow.com if you would to share what's happened with your situation since we last heard from you.
Dear Drama Mamas,
I started playing the game about a month after The Burning Crusade was released. I was still a kid, and gave my toon a foolish name. I know my name gets some weird responses, and when I race change to a worgen in Cataclysm, I am going to change my name.
Anyway, I play on a RP server ... which only happened because my brother (who now does not play) randomly picked it when he started. I started playing after him and thus chose the same server. My server is fairly weak when it comes to progression guilds, with only one having defeated heroic Lich King-25 (and it was after 4.0.1). For the duration of my Wrath WoW career, I was in a mid-level progression guild for my server, which got to 11/12 in ICC Regular. I was fairly disappointed, because I really want to get an achievement mount. The guild leader gave up trying to lead, and this week he joined the #2 guild on the server. He said he still plans to lead the guild I am in on his alt, but I know that is not going to work out. You can't lead a progression guild on an alt, while competing for server firsts on your main.
Because of his leaving, I want to find a new raiding guild, and I want one that will be more "hardcore." Thus, I applied to the same guild my old GM did, as I usually beat him in DPS meters, and he got in -- so I thought I would too. The new guild agreed to give me a trial run. I thought it went well, as we had zero issues, and I held my DPS against the regulars who far out-geared me. The regular raiders actually complimented me on my adaptability for learning hard modes for the first time and that my DPS was great for the gear I was in.
The group was fun, and with all the hard modes they did, a lot of the gear was an upgrade for me. The recruitment officer said I was free to roll but that I would only get items if nobody else wanted them, and I agreed. Because of this, I ended up rolling on a lot of loot and was declined almost all of it. I thought this was perfectly understandable and only rolled in case nobody else wanted it. I do admit though, it was excessive. The GM told me to stop rolling on loot, so I did. In the end though, I was declined. I didn't think it was that big of a deal, but I guess the GM was really annoyed. I was sad, but not angry, as there are other guilds.
I then applied to another guild (on the same day as my other rejection), but was immediately rejected. They told me this: "We received some internal feedback regarding your behavior in previous raid groups. We were told that you have a tendency to be pompous and self-serving in your pursuits, that you weren't a team player."
I was shocked. I had never been declined like this. I first was worried that I gave off this impression regularly and started asking people I knew to give me an honest critique. My old GM said this: "You're a good player, and you know how the game works. However, you're not very good at presenting yourself to strangers." I realized then that my absentmindedness with loot had completely killed my chance of joining a competitive raiding group. Also, I later learned that the guilds talk to each other about who is applying.
What can I do now? A friend recommended server transferring, which I am considering. I have a bunch of alts though, and I do not want to leave them behind. I can wait until after my race/name change and pretend I server transferred and apply to a third guild. I also was wondering what you would recommend in terms of how to act to improve my image, and what is the best thing to do in first impressions.
Thanks!
Sad & and Wanting to Improve
Drama Mama Lisa: I think your friend's got the right idea, Sad. The fair thing to do here is to give everyone -- including you -- a nice, fresh start. Here's why:- Don't pretend to be someone you're not. A new name won't change the past. Determined guilds and officers use tools such as WoWProgress to check out applicants for shiestiness, so you're fairly likely to get caught at your game. It's also fairly likely you'll eventually say or do something to connect you with your past identity and other characters. Most importantly, though, pretending to be someone else is just wrong -- and you deserve better.
- The grass really is greener. That's a pretty little metaphor -- much prettier, in fact, than the one my own guild tosses around in situations like this: "You've peed in your own pool." Get outta the water and go find another swimming hole. A realm full of people with reservations about your character is far from the place you want to hang your hat to enjoy your game time. This is your chance to find the right guild, the right realm, the right mix of people ... Your vistas are wide open before you.
- There's never been a better time to start fresh. You can change realms, factions, races, looks, names ... Or start fresh and see WoW from the start through the eyes of a race or faction or class you haven't tried before. There'll be plenty of raiding groups beginning Cataclysm content later on, once players have finished bringing up new characters and alts. The opportunities for finding a new raiding guild should stay open for quite some time.
- Don't worry about your alts. It's the beginning of a new expansion. XP flows like wine, and bringing up a new crew should be easy and more enjoyable than ever in the newly revised world. If you're starting out alone on a new realm, take a couple of gathering professions at first. You'll find yourself rolling in cash and resources sooner than you think.
Drama Mama Robin: Sad, I would like to point out a few things from your letter:
- You chose your current server because of your brother who no longer plays.
- It's an RP server and you don't RP.
- Your server is "fairly weak when it comes to progression guilds."
While honesty is always the best policy, that doesn't mean you have to go to your new server carrying your bad reputation with you, like prisoner 24601 showing his parole papers to all prospective employers. Everyone deserves a clean slate, particularly if you want to pull a Jean Valjean and use it to be better. You don't put that temp, part-time job you got fired from as a kid on your resumé, because you learned your lesson and don't need that black mark following you around. You also don't need to put your previous server's guild experience on your new apps. Since you are working hard to not be that same guildie, it's just not indicative of your current behavior.
Now I'm going to paraphrase some tips I gave to Raiding While Female to help you make a good first impression:
- Let your actions do the talking. Keep quiet in Vent and guild/app chat unless absolutely necessary, until you are accepted and out of your initial probation period. Show that you are the player they want you to be; no need to tell them.
- Be uber. Work on your skills and your teamwork. Be the best of your class, and they will want to keep you around.
- Be humble. There's always something new to learn. Listen to advice, even if you already know what they are telling you. Keep your mind open to new ideas.
- Be patient about loot. If you're not sure if it's appropriate to roll on a piece of loot, ask permission in whispers before rolling. The loot will come. It's more important to get in good with a group of people you enjoy playing with than to have the best gear first.
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with a little help and insight from the Drama Mamas. Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas@wow.com. Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
SerenityNow Dec 10th 2010 8:04PM
As usual, I believe the truth is somewhere in between.
I think you're right to an extent Kaphik: the GM probably did sour this guys app with sly comments in guild or officer chat before the run ended, which is unfortunate. But why? Likely because of past indiscretions from the letter writer during their time together in the old guild. And his apparently unfortunate character name probably didn't help him either, and just reinforced what the old GM told the new guild.
I also believe the letter writer was not telling the whole story with regard to the run. Probably not out of dishonesty, but rather because he/she just didn't realize social faux pas were being made. And even if you're told you can roll on everything, it's bad ettiquette to almost always roll, especially on gear you can't use. For example, if my guild had a potential member on a run who was a clothie and who was constantly rolling on plate, sure it might be abiding by the letter of raid rules... but it doesn't really make a good impression. It sounds like the letter writer realizes this in hindsight and won't do it again though, so lesson learned.
Ultimately, the mamas' advice was spot on. Time for this player to switch servers to a better fit, pick up a less embarassing name, and take the lessons they've learned (and the mamas' tips) with them.
As for improving social skills, being humble and polite and not engaging in banter until you've found your feet is excellent advice. I'd also recommend using emotes, to make sure one's innocent comments aren't misinterpreted as rude or arrogant (which happens to everyone). A smiley emote or a wink can make all the difference in what impression you leave. :-)
Saitenyo Dec 10th 2010 6:02PM
Call me jaded, but I remain skeptical of the letter-writer's story here. It's possible he got stuck with a really crappy guild and they were being absurdly ridiculous about loot distribution to the point where they got mad at him for following their own rules.
But I think it's more likely that there's something in the way he presents himself that he's not telling us (or perhaps not aware of). The fact that his old GM also felt that way really raises some red flags. Multiple different sources saying there's a problem means it's more likely that there actually is.
There's nothing wrong with wanting a fresh start, but I hope he's learned from whatever mistake(s) he made on his previous server. Because I get the bad feeling he actually did do something wrong and is trying to push the blame on everyone else. That does not paint a picture of "lessons learned" here and he may just end up making the same mistake again and alienating people on his new server.
Akhi Dec 10th 2010 5:38PM
It might just be the way I read this, but there didn't actually seem to be any feedback from the guilds this person was applying to that related to loot. Obviously this is a well written letter, but from what I saw only the writer said anything about taking too much loot (the GM asked him to stop, but that was it). The "However, you're not very good at presenting yourself to strangers" comment makes me think it might be a different issue.
There are people who have applied to my guild who do a great job at fights and know their class, but say things that are just slightly offensive or irritating to the rest of the guild. Invariably these people will come to me later and say "Why do I feel like everyone hates me?" It's not that they ninja loot or demand priviliges or anything like that, but the way they speak(through type) is ever-so-slightly off. Some people use "u" and "r" incessantly, and my guild simply doesn't. Some people come in and offer unsolicited advice to people who are established and accomplished raiders. Others come in and start acting superior to the rest of the server, which my guild works very hard to avoid. Some people just come in and start talking a lot...treating a new guild like their old and trying to organize raids or 5mans or BGs without waiting to get the feel of the guild.
I find the best kind of applicant is one who is polite, and who doesn't start talking until they've gotten a strong grasp of how the guild works (and it's not always easy to find out). Waiting at least a week before you start flinging comments into guild chat is always a good idea.
Iirdan Dec 10th 2010 6:04PM
Most of this is good advice, though I feel it necessary to emphasize that it depends on the guild. My guild, for example, pulls new recruits into guild chat on a regular basis. I've struggled to encourage that, actually, as I always worry when new recruits are quiet that they aren't liking us or meshing well with us; I take the care to make sure my recruits feel welcome.
There is a fine balance. Don't be the silent stranger that rarely speaks, but don't be the stranger who speaks too much.
Akhi Dec 10th 2010 11:17PM
Oh, I agree! I just meant you should make sure of the feel of the guild before you plunge in to talking (or not talking at all).
Infinite Duck Dec 10th 2010 5:42PM
I can see the guild getting concerned it he/she was rolling on loot any anything remotely useful as soon as it was announced. If your told you get scraps, but keep instant rolling or rolling on items that might not be ideal, I can see them getting a little concerned. It send warning sirens that this person is gear hungry.
I'm a number cruncher, I look at pieces of gear and I can generally judge which classes/specs/raiders that piece is ideal for. I will 'glare' (no one can see me glaring at my computer screen) at players who I think took a piece that should've gone to someone else. I'm not a loot h0r, but I am picky on loot distribution. I generally never complain unless it's a dps taking spirit gear over a healer (or something similar), but if I was asked to vote on accepting a newbie, well I hate gear hungry players. I most likely (given the information here) have voted no for this player.
Everyone wants upgrade, everyone needs upgrades, and everyone will get gear. If you don't get you piece this week, well there is always next week. If I say "you get the scraps" I except you to wait and see if anyone rolls, and then roll. I expect you to look at the piece and say "If this right for me?" But that's me. Although, if I know guildies are rolling against you just for the sake of taking the item. I will be furious at my guildies. I have seen this done in the past.
Epiphany Dec 10th 2010 5:48PM
What i'm trying to understand is why they thought he was pompous? If he's constantly getting declined gear, wouldn't it make sense that he would keep rolling on the next drop if the previous drop didn't go to him?
Although he did say he was declined almost all of it so I guess he did get a few pieces of gear, I always go with the safe expect one piece of gear a run and stop rolling approach :D
iceveiled Dec 10th 2010 5:48PM
I would either transfer to another realm or just start your own guild and be the raid leader.
Also I probably wouldn't roll on loot in trial runs. you're there to showcase your skill and ability to be a team player. Worry about loot and gearing AFTER you get accepted.
Mindee Dec 10th 2010 6:03PM
I think there is probably something else going on as well, but I totally understand about rolling on every piece of loot a person can possibly use being a ground for rejection EVEN if they told him he could. Having been a former GM, and stepping down from that position because of loot drama very similar to what this guy was innocently doing, I can understand. If you tell someone they can roll on whatever anyone else doesn't want, and they go about rolling on everything, while knowing they can only get it if no one else rolls...why are they even rolling if people roll? It looks much better and puts you in such a better light, if you just don't roll if anyone else even rolls a 1 at it. :/ I'm not saying this guy expected to get any loot, but just don't roll if anyone else rolls. Obviously people were rolling so he was constantly getting turned down for loot, so why did he continue to roll with other people rolling? To some people that would just come off as being a future problem with loot they would have to deal with. I would be thinking something like Is this guy always going to roll on every piece of loot he can use regardless if he got a piece off the first boss or even the raid last week? A guild is about working together and gearing everyone, and gear does not come fast, but it does come! So I have no idea if I made complete sense, but yeah... To me that shows a lack of restraint, regardless of how innocent his rolling was, that would crop up later and cause loot drama or just generally annoy someone...and then it comes the GM's problem to hear the complaining, and then the poor GM just gets so fed up and steps down and server changes. It happens!
I assume his name is some ridiculous immature reference or pun since he took the time to mention it as well. That probably rubbed some people the wrong way as well. This person should look for a guild that is going to be more understand and easy going imo. To each his own! Some people can't work together, and you shouldn't concern yourself with their rejection of you because you probably would not have been happy.
Just be more aware of how you present yourself. :) If it matters to you!
roseclown Dec 10th 2010 6:12PM
Yeeeaah. Being on WRA myself, I can tell you straight up-
Punny name+not being considerate on loot = people thinking you are a moron.
Wyrmrest Accord is pretty savage about it's rp rep, and even some of our top raiding guilds have rpers who would twitch over this. In fact, since WRA is ranked 4th in the USA with raiding, I can't help but wondering if this is the server the person is speaking about.
So, personally? If this was WRA, I could totally see a stupid name, rolling on everything, and social awkwardness all causing people to dislike you.
Heck, on WRA in the worgen quest zone they had people forming a perfect line for one of the quest objectives to kill, so each could take their turn! That is how freakin' nice this server is. So yeah, the lack of consideration would be a death knell combined with a bad name.
This person definitely needs to get on a pvp server.
roseclown Dec 10th 2010 6:13PM
I meant pve or pvp. >.>
Ah well. wtb edit button
transrelativity Dec 10th 2010 6:19PM
On the flip side, if you're told to roll on upgrades but that you'll only get them if no one else wants them, and then you never roll, I as a raid leader or loot master would wonder if you actually understood your class and knew that these were upgrades.
Zaphkela Dec 10th 2010 6:53PM
Just wanted to say that I was totally in that Worgen line on WRA on Tuesday night :)
Twill Dec 11th 2010 1:47AM
This post was actually a friend of mine. I can tell you it wasn't on that server :P
jfofla Dec 10th 2010 6:24PM
I think it is funny he is talking about competing for server firsts on THAT realm.
That is like a race between two turtles.
Twill Dec 11th 2010 2:18AM
Where are server firsts... or any realm... mentioned at all in the letter?
Slaign Dec 10th 2010 6:30PM
The issue presented is, as others said, likely not the only issue. But, it is the only one we can properly analyze. Now, it's easy to assume that the other person is a dick, but let's be honest. You got feedback from 3 different people indicating you had an abrasive personality. Your friend, rather than indicate nothing was wrong, suggested you transfer servers. I think there may be an issue with how you are fitting in with others.
However, an issue with fitting in doesn't mean YOU are wrong or bad. It doesn't mean you have to change. It just means you haven't found a proper fit. Consider this: You put absolutely no thought into the server you chose or the type of people it may attract. This means it's a good chance the server is not a proper fit for you.
RP servers attract people who are social, but sort of reserved. These are people who like to escape from being themselves. That's not a bad thing, but it's a certain personality type. Further, because they tend to be small, and have a reputation for being friendly, they attract introverts.
If you are an extroverted person who likes to joke and small talk and be a social butterfly, a room full of introverts is the last place you want to be. To an introvert, you are their worst fear, a new person who wants to engage them. Introverts take a lot of time getting to know someone before they speak to them and open a relationship. People who are instantly all over the place and energetic make them uncomfortable.
I suggest, before you start trying to change who you are over some feedback you got from people who barely know you, you take the offered advice and transfer. This time, put a lot of thought into where you want to go. If you are an extroverted, fun loving, energetic person, especially if you are competitive, try a high population PVP server. This way, you will be on a server that attracts like minded people, and with a high pop, if you do make a mistake, your name is less likely to be marked.
Take the time to find a server that resonates with you. Find a name you think sounds cool, play the faction you like best, and make decisions based on who you are. That way, you will be with people who made similar decisions based on who they are, and hopefully, you'll make some friends.
When you choose your new name, pick one that you think sounds cool and represents you well. If you are a silly person, a silly name is fine. Choose a name YOU like, because it represents you, and trying to represent yourself as someone else is no good. It will always out, so it's better to find a place to be accepted than to conform to someone else's standards.
As far as your loot issue: If the GM asked you to roll only when someone else didn't want it, that means something different than if he said you would only get loot when no one else wanted it. If you rolled every time even though others were rolling, the GM may be annoyed at having to look at your roll and mentally exclude it, when you should have known you wouldnt recieve it anyway. Instead, you should have waited, and if no one else rolled, or the GM said "DE?" or "Do you want this Sad?" then you roll/say yes.
rkaliski Dec 10th 2010 6:46PM
One thing that struck me was his comment about beating his former GM on the meters and doing well despite his gear. It's not just the numbers on the meter. You don't know what whispers or comments flew around on guild and officer chat. You can just imagine what might have been said.
Tank: " Will you tell this boy to at least wait till I get the boss to me before unloading. My key I have bound to taunt is broke from pounding it so hard."
Healer: " I guess don't stand in the fire and spread out doesn't count if you are trying to get on top of the meter. Most of my healing was to keep his sorry ass alive and not the tank"
DPS: " Will you tell this noob that I know how to play my toon and I don't need unsolicted advise from a recruit on his first run with us"
Raid Leader:" How many specs is this guy going to roll on? If his gear is that bad he rolls on everything that he could possibly use then why would we possibly need him?"
Okay, here is another point. With the badge system just about anyone can get great gear if they are willing to put the work in and run randoms till they puke. Other than weapons and trinkets you should have a great set of gear before enlisting in a guild that is doing hard modes in 25 man ICC. Upgrades should be limited to stuff like the trinkets and perhaps a weapon.
Did the GM of the guild he applied to wonder if this guy was going to be a loot whore and then when he got geared up then jump ship again? After all he was willing to leave his old guild for progression. Sure you can try to move up, but it's not just the numbers that gets you in the high end guilds. They probably get a lot of recruits and can get those numbers from just about anyone. The lack of being a team player is probably what killed his chances.
As a tank I know lots of DPS who thought their only goal in life was number one on the meters no matter what they were asked to do. They spam damage meters and LOL at the off tank who switched over to DPS gear because the fight only needed one tank. Yeah, that makes you really welcome.
You are young and dumb only once in life. I hope your attitude in the game does not cary over into your real world job.
Twill Dec 11th 2010 2:25AM
That was a very good line. I know the person who wrote the letter, and sent them that. i think it helped.
Side-Note:
He tanks. He heals. He was applying for his off-spec which was dps. :P
(One of those people who can play every role. That is 3 sets of gear, lots of rolling. (the idiot!)
Also -- He was fully geared with ICC 25 stuff in every set, but not the heroics the new guild was running :P
Doldrums Dec 10th 2010 6:52PM
What, why wasn't the title video the bravery song? UR DOIN' IT RONG!