Patch 5.4 patch notes
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The latest patch 5.4 newsBreakfast Topic: Guilt by association
by Weston Arrowsmith 
Dec 13th 2010 at 8:00AM
I like to think that I'm a good hunter. I show up to raids on time at least 90 percent of the time, I do my best to bring my flasks and food, I keep my gear properly gemmed and enchanted, I research all encounters, and I do very respectable DPS. But despite all of this, I am not recognized by how good of a player I am. Instead, I am recognized "by association."
My best friend is a restoration druid, and he is damn good at what he does. This, of course, means that he gets invites everywhere to various guilds or raids, and I'm simply tagging along as his DPS -- the guy who gets into the guild or raid by association. It isn't all bad, of course. He and I do everything in game together, and we make a pretty good team, so if continuing to stick around with him means staying in his shadow, then that's OK with me.
Of course, the problem with being "by association" is how it is taken with others. If my best friend is promoted to an officer, he's going to share everything with me, so I am promoted. "By association." If guild leadership gets too many complaints about his behavior as an officer (which I never found out of line), it would be unfair to still have me as an officer, so I am demoted. "By association." If he leaves a guild over a dispute with guild leadership, I'm kicked out of the guild. "By association." And one time, he was kicked from a guild because he was defending me against some smack-talkers. Guess who also got kicked out? "By association."
So, fellow readers, do any of you live in the shadow of another? Or do you cast that shadow? Do you ever wish you could find a way out?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics, Guest Posts
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 3)
Taedran Dec 13th 2010 12:26PM
I've been healing for 6 years... and I cast that shadow for about 4 different people. >
Lynkfox Dec 13th 2010 12:33PM
I play a Resto Shaman, and have been Resto (except for leveling) since I hit 70. When I finally got to 70, after a long long time of leveling, my best friend was playing a prot paladin. He started dragging me through heroics as an extra hand, gearing me up to make me into his 'Pocket Healer' In time I did manage to get quite well geared, and was an excellent healer in my own right. But everyone on server and guild who knew us, knew us as Urumi the Prot Pally and his pocket healer, Raz.
He has long since moved on to other games, but I still get some whispers asking if Id like to do some dungeons and if my owner tank will tank for them.
Tinker Dec 13th 2010 12:40PM
I used to be the one casting the shadow over my fiance and when I had a dispute with fellow officers I was kicked however they let my fiance stay in though she quickly realized that they kicked me because I was the only one pointing out that they were abusing the system we had set in place. Now I am gladly in her shadow since she's a priest and likes healing (girls are weird) and I tag along as her dps buddy and occasional tank when things get tight. She's an officer and I am not but we are in a semi casual guild and everyone is open, no beating around the bush. If you have a problem lay it on the table and resolve it. If you can't be open with your guild as an officer about problems that arise then you don't belong being an officer and if you can't play nice then don't play with us :)
Yangli Dec 13th 2010 12:53PM
I assume if you DO always share opinions and such, you don't mind being seen as unity. After all it can be nice to know that everyone can see how the two of you belong together... But if one partner disagrees on the other's sayings or doings, it will become hairy. Thus I recommend to always make sure people know who you as a person are, or else you can't blame them if they continue to think of you in the way they are used to -- same as they think of your partner.
I understand it can be a pain in the ass for a GM to evaluate how to cope with couples of one or the other kind. But in the end having several couples creates a more personal atmosphere in the guild, which I think is good. :) (It might also create drama, but what doesn't)
Yangli Dec 13th 2010 12:56PM
Comment system fail :(
Saitenyo Dec 13th 2010 1:22PM
I've actually run into this problem only once and quickly devised a solution. My boyfriend and I both play, but we have different interests in the game and different playstyles. He's a pretty competitive PvPer, I'm a more relaxed raider in a casual guild. When I brought him into my casual guild, it became clear pretty early on that there were some minor personality clashes (and even moreso when his friends followed, as they were less inclined to try to make a good impression for my sake).
I was starting to feel uncomfortable with the fact that the antics of his friends were being associated with me to some degree, and I could tell he, and especially his friends, weren't really as in to guild activities as I was. Their primary focus was their 3-man Arena team.
So we realized that just because we're dating doesn't mean we -have- to do everything together in game. He and his friends left the guild and went to join a PvP guild better suited to their playstyle, and I stuck with my casual raiding guild. He still runs stuff with us here and there when we need someone to fill in, and he and I still do holiday achievements and other fun stuff together, but we're generally fine doing our own thing while still sharing a mutual love of the game.
I know this probably doesn't work for everyone. If you and your friend or s.o. share the same interests and goals in game, then there's a stronger desire to stick together and as a consequence, are more likely to remain exclusively associated with one another. But if the two of you have different goals and interests in game, often it can work just fine to go different directions and not feel compelled to always stick together.
Frostitute Dec 13th 2010 1:29PM
When I first began raiding, I was inside my friend's shadow. He introduced me to World of Warcraft on more than one occasion. The first, my trial, didn't stick - I was trying out a night elf rogue, then. Being a mage himself, he suggested to try it out. After watching a video about AOE levelling (it looked really cool, and something about unorthodox tactics is my style) I decided to start the mage out. I loved every second of it. I went from about 12 to 60 purely on blizzard AOE, and that was honestly a really formative time for me. People would be passing by on their quests, see me kill about 30 pirates at once, and they'd whisper me things such as 'Holy crap!!!1'. It was really a great feeling to have a mastery of a certain aspect of my class so early. I made a lot of friends and impressed a fair number of people.
When I got to 60, I applied to raid. I was accepted by vouch of the mage friend I had, and put into the raider rank. As Burning Crusade was coming out in a month at the time, there was no more raiding to do, so I bided my time until the new cap was 70. I levelled pretty quick, much quicker than my original mage buddy, and had made friends with the class leader. We'd stay up late theorycrafting over patch notes, spell rotations, small buffs that can help out, pretty much everything. And this guy was good.
When raiding began, my output was significant. With time and practice in a raid environment, I began regularly surpassing my class lead, sometimes in inferior gear. Then I began taking the top DPS slot. It got to the point where if I didn't have the top DPS slot, I had done something wrong, and I got frustrated with myself. I had made a name for myself, and I was 'that guy' that people would point to and say my chosen spec needed to get nerfed. I was happy.
When wrath raiding came out, it was much the same story on a different playing field. I was promoted to class leader as the old mage decided to roll a death knight. With the early content being extremely short (Consisting of only Naxx, Sartharion and Malygos) and Ulduar more than 2-3 months away in development, I took hiatus and lost interest in the game. Maybe I felt what I had come to do - cast my own shadow.
After that, I took on bigger beasts. Went into EVE. After quickly picking up the mechanics, especially that surrounding economics and industry (every MMO I play, I usually end up filthy rich like a goblin, or at least attempt to be.), I met a friend with whom I play games with to this day. I was promoted to a director in the corporation I was in - and even though he wasn't one himself, we both sort of ran the mining/industry section of the corporation together. I had amassed a titanic value in currency and was really good at multiplying it. No real goal in mind. Just make money.
Eventually, we parted ways. He had school and work, and I felt the need to return to my roots, and try running a raiding guild in WoW. It was extremely successful, in my eyes. Probably the most successful project I've ever started. I had a handful of really good people (who happened to be good players as well, so that's a bonus) and made them my core group of officers. I listened to their insight, and with a communal direction we prospered. When we got near the end of the content of Wrath and people were getting busy with school again (this was around Sept.), we decided to go on hiatus until Cataclysm.
Now that cataclysm is out, things have kicked back into gear. The aforementioned friend and I had reconnected, and I extended the invitation for him to try WoW. He was skeptical at first, but it didn't take him long to buy all the expansions including Cataclysm with Blizzard's 20 dollar deal.
Being a guild leader, I think I cast a shadow a lot just because of what my position demands. Although at the same time, I think I cast it as well just because I strive to be the best as justification for that position. I try not to tower over people too much, everyone just wants to have fun. I know when people have done well. I expect the friend of mine will do well. But striving for the top is what's fun for me, and if I cast those shadows in the process? It's mostly a byproduct.
Probably TLDR for most readers. I just figured I'd get it out how if you're in a shadow, you don't always end up staying that way.
TheBigFatMuffinMan Dec 13th 2010 2:22PM
When I was a newb 80, I was invited to a guild that I had always wanted to join. Apparently, they needed more tanks (imagine that), and asked if I could go Blood if they paid for my dual-spec and geared me through heroics. This all went great, and I was finally able to tank ICC as my DK/first 80. Almost right after we had finally gotten the Blood-Queen down, someone started whining about the way the loot was split up. The guild then went downhill, and what was once a heroic-25 man raiding guild became 7 people who had stuck around to see if we could get it back up and running.
Now, my friend, a dwarf Warrior and main-tank (I was off-tank, wasn't quite feeling confident enough to take over his job) was invited to another guild we had raided with in the past. The moment he got the invite, he was made officer and was told to "invite that off-tank you work with". So, he invited me and was demoted (apparently they hadn't even bothered to learn my name T.T) and we began raiding with them. Almost everytime he was asked to tank, I was asked to off-tank. When I was invited to a raid, he was invited to a raid. Mutually association?
Fernin Dec 13th 2010 2:26PM
I'm not so much in the shadow of anyone, or casting a shadow; more rather I'm kind of "that one guy" who nobody really talks to because he's so quiet, but gets called because he can put out good DPS when a regular can't make it.
Majikthyz Dec 13th 2010 3:10PM
The thing that concerned me the most here was the issue of getting promoted to officer in a guild because "he's going to share everything with me". If a guild is run along principles of *secret officer's business* then it is following worst practices of business and government and is already broken and a few "loose lips" away from catastrophe.