The problems with Tol Barad (and how to fix them)

There are six distinct problems with Tol Barad at the moment:
- Defending Tol Barad is too easy.
- The cap mechanics to secure capture points make it too easy to switch.
- The towers in Tol Barad that grant extra time to the attackers have no reason to be defended by the defending faction.
- Tol Barad's victory condition for the attacking faction has created a frustrating environment in light of the mechanics at play in the battleground.
- The graveyards are skewed in favor of the defenders.
- The losing side in Tol Barad receives no Tol Barad commendation for participating in the battle, while the winning team receives three.
The typical Tol Barad
Here's how Tol Barad usually goes when two full raids of players are pitted against each other on the island. The defending faction, which spawns in the middle of the island, moves to one of the three capture points as a group and waits. The attacking side moves to one of the capture points and begins to capture. Defenders are left at the capture point to guard against incoming enemies and to hold the point for the attacking faction. All three points must be held by the attacking faction to win Tol Barad.
As soon as another point is captured (and in most cases, beforehand), the defending team's zerg overruns the first cap point and, because of the way the cap mechanics work (more people = faster cap), switches the cap point almost instantly. The defending zerg then stays at this point until another point swaps in the attacker's favor. The cycle repeats, and after 30 minutes of running around in circles, the defenders have successfully defended Tol Barad.
Strategy should come into play in these battlegrounds and contested locations. Let's answer some common questions and rebuttals to Tol Barad first.
Why not just add more defense to each cap point? The problem is not the skill of the players or even the number of players on defense, but the cap mechanic. Each point can be capped by just having faction members present in the area, not the destruction of the forces there. The side with more forces around the flag begins to capture it. You could have 40 Alliance attacking 35 Horde on top of a capture point and the bar would immediately begin to move in the Alliance's favor. You do not need to vanquish your foes on the flag in order to begin to cap it, and the number of people you have on top of the flag makes the bar move faster with no upper limit.
What this results in is ultra-fast capping by a zerg of defenders against attackers who cannot even use their survivability to hold a point. It doesn't matter how good you are, because it's only a numbers game. Ten of the best Alliance soldiers will not be able to defend a point against 30 Horde grunts, even if those 10 Alliance soldiers were the best players on the server and could easily defeat their haphazard enemy. The instantly lose because of the cap mechanic.
The attackers can destroy the towers and get extra time. Extra time and nothing else. In Wintergrasp, the towers were powerful objectives because without them, the defending side lost a significant buff and the attackers lost their most precious resource, time. By lowering the amount of time they had to capture the fortress in Wintergrasp, defenders stood a better chance and made it harder for the attackers to win. The Wintergrasp towers changed the victory condition of the battle; what once was an easy, slow push to the relic chamber became a fast scramble to plow through the walls and win as soon as possible.
Conversely, Tol Barad's towers do nothing for anyone to change the victory condition of the battle. Adding time does not change the way to win -- you still have to capture all three points at once, while the zerg runs from point to point, recapturing in seconds what took minutes to achieve. Adding time does not hinder the defense in any way, unlike Wintergrasp, where the towers were powerful to both sides because they changed the victory conditions. Right now, there is no reason to defend the towers in Tol Barad.

Making Tol Barad harder to defend would go a long way toward allowing both sides access to the new content and dailies, as well as allowing the playerbase to devise new ways to win and succeed at the battleground. The problem has manifested itself as a way to surely win the fight and keep the defense, instead of making it possible for a skilled and strategy-oriented group to overcome the zerg defense. Strategy does not matter when the only factor that decides how a point is capped is the number of people in the area.
Broken capture mechanics
There are two problems with the cap mechanic in Tol Barad. First, you do not need to rid the area of enemies before the bar starts to move for your faction, and second, the deciding factor of how fast the bar moves scales with the number of people in the area. I understand why the first issue is present -- keeping respawn timers low means more time for players to jump into battle. The last thing someone wants to do is run into battle, die, and then have to wait 30 seconds for a rez. So let's leave the first point alone.
The second point is where the problem lies. Forty people bum-rushing a point results in 30 defenders having the point ripped from under them because they don't have the numbers in the area, despite being able to defend the area. And with the defending team respawning so close to every point on the map, it is hard to overcome the zerg even with a zerg of your own.
Wintergrasp had multiple entry points into the fortress and required people to be spread out, defending the walls of the fortress with an actual, physical barrier between the enemy and their prize inside the fortress walls. Tol Barad has no boundaries or walls -- every person is free to run from place to place, and no area is blocked away from the attackers or defenders.
The problem with the Tol Barad towers is that they do not change the victory condition for either side. Rather, they prolong a static victory condition that actually gets harder to accomplish the more time you are given. Wintergrasp's towers provided a buff to the attackers to help them fell the walls and were important to defend. If you destroyed the towers in Wintergrasp, a battle that was supposed to take a longer amount of time was suddenly cut short for the attackers, forcing them to change strategy as a result of their new victory condition.
The towers in Tol Barad need to change the victory condition for the attacking team in order to make them valuable to defend for the defending faction.
Victory conditions that never change
No matter how good the attacking faction is, the defending faction still only needs to hold one point in contest in order to successfully win Tol Barad. This means that a zerg defense can just run from point to point and steal a point out from under a capable and sizable offensive force just by numbers. As a result, Tol Barad rarely changes hands.
There needs to be a changing victory condition that allows the attacking faction to do something to break the defending faction's strategy and force a different approach. As of right now, there is nothing preventing the defending faction from turtling up in one place and never leaving or running from point to point as a group. It's not that this isn't a viable strategy -- it's just too hard to break. Wintergrasp had this strategy, but because of the size of the map and the many different entry points into the fortress, one large group would take too long to traverse from side to side, where a split force could take on many different fronts.
Tol Barad is much smaller than Wintergrasp, and as such, moving from place to place is much easier and takes less time. Therefore, the victory condition in place for such a small location coupled with the capping mechanics of numbers and not the presence of defenders means that the defense have a huge advantage -- an advantage that the attacking faction has no way to break.
Graveyards that favor the defenders
The original idea for the graveyards in Tol Barad is sound: The attacking force respawns close to the point they are trying to capture to give them an advantage in capturing. The travel time that the attackers save allows them to grab a few more ticks on the capture bar before reinforcements arrive. That works. The problem comes from the defending faction resurrecting in the middle of the map, an equal distance to any of the capture points. Instead of beating back the force that they had originally been fighting tooth and nail against, they'll find it easier to run the same distance to another capture point. There is little consequence to death for the defending faction.
Graveyard positions either need to be changed or spawn times changed to compensate the attacking faction for the defender's innate ability to get from one capture point to the other in the same amount of time it would take for them to refortify the point at which they died. It might not seem like a huge deal, but that proximity imbalances the entire fight, since death is so much more destructive for the attackers than the defenders.

In Wintergrasp, the winning side received three medallions for successfully winning, while the losing faction received one medallion for participating. This gave incentive for the losing faction to play, even if their faction was outnumbered and out-skilled -- you still gained something from playing.
Tol Barad gives three Tol Barad Commendations to the winners and none to the losers. The incentives are only the honor points gained, but the allure of Tol Barad are the unique rewards from spending those commendations at each faction's respective quartermasters. Why not give the losing side one commendation for playing in a contested zone that has specific rewards using those tokens?
How to change Tol Barad
Tol Barad needs to change, and here's how I propose to do it:
- Make the towers worthwhile by changing the victory condition associated with them. When all towers are up, the attacking side must capture all three points to win. When all towers are down, the attacking side must capture and hold two points when the timer runs out.
- By having the towers actually matter in the battle, you force the defending zerg to break up into groups to defend many positions and the attacking zerg to break up and capture different points, as their victory condition can change depending on where they put their forces.
- Change the capping mechanic to cap out at a certain number of people that can contribute to the sliding bar. For example, have the number of people who can contribute to capping be 20, so that overkill on that amount means that those people in excess of 20 are wasted by either side to cap. Instead, those forces would be better elsewhere on the battlefield. This also makes each capped spot more valuable, as they would not change hands as frequently.
- Give the winners of Tol Barad three Tol Barad Commendations and the losers one Tol Barad Commendation.
I love Tol Barad. The design is gorgeous, the lore is amazing, and the daily hubs associated with the content are the best Blizzard has done yet. The battle for Tol Barad itself is a mess and needs work, but it's far from unfixable, and I can't wait to see what Blizzard has in store for it.
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm has destroyed Azeroth as we know it; nothing is the same! In WoW Insider's Guide to Cataclysm, you can find out everything you need to know about WoW's third expansion, from leveling up a new goblin or worgen to breaking news and strategies on endgame play.





Reader Comments (Page 3 of 6)
Pyromelter Dec 17th 2010 10:12PM
The biggest problem Wintergrasp had was the massive lag it would cause when so many people would be in that zone, or when you'd have like 100 people in the inner CY, and the server lag from all those people and spells would just destroy your framerate.
Zach Yonzon wrote this a few weeks after WotLK hit (source: http://wow.joystiq.com/2008/12/20/the-art-of-war-craft-wintergrasp-part-ii/ ):
"In my opinion, Wintergrasp is one of the best features of Wrath. It's fun, it takes little time, and is friendly even if you're not a fan of PvP. Check it out if you haven't, hopefully armed with a bit of knowledge on how to play. And knowing is half the battle."
It was a hit right from the start. Sure, it wasn't perfect, but it was pretty darn good. Tol Barad? Not so much.
QQinsider Dec 17th 2010 11:42PM
"I really really get the impression Blizzard is more and more using its B team on WOW.
Too many bugs, too many wrong decisions, too much imbalance in the early leveling, too much screwed up decisions like mana shortage for a crucial class as healers."
They are. Jeff Kaplan wasn't on the Cata design team, having gone off to work on (possibly) Blizzard's new MMORPG, and it shows, it really does. Kaplan wasn't perfect, but he knew what makes a great MMORPG.
The second issue is related to how rushed this release was. Blizzard are no longer a company that releases "when it's ready", now they release when they told the shareholders they would release, whether it's ready or not.
Anyway, what do they care when they can release a steaming pile of crap like this PvP zone and the author here, after pointing out what a steaming pile of crap it is, says he loves it. The only thing they will care about is when people start cancelling in droves.
motodale Dec 18th 2010 2:27AM
if your healers are going oom then someone is doing something stupid, either standing in some stuff or using their old goto heal and spending way more mana than they should. our guild just figured out how to never go oom again unless the tank wants to chow on some fire
Zaros Dec 17th 2010 7:20PM
You forgot to mention that we can only enter at level 85. Since we are all in crappy gear, they could lower that to 83 or something. My server has like 50 alliance queuing and 5 horde, which means that we never get to play. Almost makes me miss tenacity XD
erknost Dec 17th 2010 7:24PM
In my server the Horde (rival faction) have contro of Tol Barad since the launch f Cataclysm, and the Alliance (my faction) have no the number or the numbers to take it back. I miss WG!
chris Dec 17th 2010 7:25PM
I will never get to see it since they changed the whole fairness pvp thing...most of my faction on my server never get to see this type of bg
Minutia Dec 24th 2010 11:36AM
whats worse, never getting past the que? or never winning once you get there?
pancakes Dec 17th 2010 7:24PM
Tol Barad has massive potential. I was delighted when I discovered how the new tanks work, & the atmosphere of the place is great.
The mechanics could definitely use a revamp though. I know it's an annoying cliché, but I'm surprised that the fundamental flaws in Tol Barad were not discovered in beta.
I especially like the first dot point suggestion, and am amazed the last 2 were not already implemented.
Ralod Dec 17th 2010 7:25PM
A Mechanic that buffs the attackers needs to be put in place as well after one side holds it for an extended period of time. On my server Horde had more 85's first, and this have been able to defend since, it has never changed hands.
Pyromelter Dec 17th 2010 10:02PM
The amount of 85's you have does not matter, since the queue system only allows the same amount of people to enter the bg on each side. In other words, if 100 people queue horde side, and 3 people queue alliance side, it will only allow 3 hordes to enter v. those 3 alliance.
Corrupted Dec 17th 2010 7:30PM
I'm sure we can all remember WG was not all peaches and cream at launch and went through several changes before it got to where it was at the end of Wrath. As far as Tol Barad, I've only stepped into the zone once a couple days after launch, but no battle was taking place. I hope the issues get addressed. I really do like the concept of these types of zones.
Pyromelter Dec 17th 2010 10:01PM
My recollection of WG was the problem wasn't so much the mechanics of the BG itself, but the massive lag that it would induce due to the amount of people that would be in the BG. It was so popular everyone wanted to do it, even people who weren't big on pvp.
Minutia Dec 24th 2010 11:41AM
id rather they fix the old boards than give us new broken ones to bang our heads against.
Eldoron Dec 17th 2010 7:31PM
"Tol Barad's victory condition for the attacking faction has created a frustrating environment"
Welcome to the world of trolls. Founded sometime between 2004 and 2007
Johnnyd2 Dec 17th 2010 7:35PM
add one more problem to the list, I tried doing some dailies right before a battle on Scarlet Crusade on my alliance ret pally, got some done (2 of the undead ones). The questgiver despawned pre battle RIGHT before I was about to turn it in, and we sadly lost... while defending none the less XP. Luckily we got it back today, unfortunately, the dailies were a different set (The demon dailies), so I'm now stuck with the quest items and the quests until not only the undead quest givers come back up, but we have to control TB as well.
TLDR Make it possible for dailies from a different quest set to be turned in regardless of which set of dailies is avaiable to do.
Ice Dec 17th 2010 8:40PM
Speaking of dailies I have never seen worse dailies in my life.
Respawn timer is literally 2 seconds sometimes, mobs are right next to eachother so you fight 3 at time or in row. No time to drink/eat at all. Also they hit A LOT.. at this gear level you cannot even pull a lot of normal mobs and "aoe down"..have to be one by one and then drink after while, atleast I cant. Its horrible.
I thought daily mobs should be hitting less. These hit like wrath heroic trash, literally.
Kylenne Dec 17th 2010 9:02PM
@Ice: I just haven't had those issues doing dailies. I don't know if you noticed this while leveling up from 80-85, but you aren't *meant* to be able to round up a bunch of things and AoE them down at this gear level. You have to be smart about your pulls (thinking like a tank in a 5 man helps) and be intimately familiar with the tricks of your class if things go south in a hurry. I have yet to die doing these dailies, and I'm a clothie that's barely geared for heroics (as in sub 100k hp). Granted, I'm also a frost mage, but just about every class has *some* kind of sneaky method they can use to get out of trouble. This isn't Wrath of the Zerging anymore, and frankly I *like* that I have to be smart when doing dailies instead of rounding up 15 cultists and AoEing them down every day.
That's not to say that there aren't some spawning issues, but I've run into far, far fewer of those while doing TB dailies as compared to say, questing in Vashj'ir. I've been pretty faithful about dailies since I dinged, and I can count on one hand the times when I haven't been able to eat/drink because mobs kept spawning. As long as you don't do something silly like sit in the middle of the cemetery, you should generally be fine.
Jaq Dec 17th 2010 9:17PM
@Kylenne.
No amount of careful pulling can save you if while you're killing a mob that you think is isolated, two more respawn right on top of you, which happens to me a LOT in Tol Barad, especially in the quests where you go into the cell blocks. I can take one, even two mobs in Tol Barad on my DK, thanks to a tough as nails ghoul, but three is pushing it and four will slaughter me. The funny thing is, the respawn rate for mobs out in open areas where you can properly avoid things is far lower.
Ice Dec 18th 2010 7:42AM
@Kylenne
Thats what I mean. You arent able to aoe them down. There lies the problem because they are desinged to be taken one by one so they hit harder..
The desing of "AoEable= X amount of mobs hit hard together but tame alone. One by one = One mob hits hard".
But they spawn so fast you end up fighting them aoe anyway or using some cc that might not work depending what daily you have today (like you cannot fear/hex/poly unded etc).
When you go to tol barad like these cell blocks or the "towns" in other side of the map the mobs spawn at WAY TOO RAPID speed since theres tons of people in the area after battle, but maybe not killing them (they seem to spawn faster the more people there IN THE AREA itself and there is a lot of them after battle = super fast respawns).
Once you kill one, other spawns near it..after that, the one you killed before spawns.. and so on endlessly.
Easiest way I could get away from it was to simply die and wait for res timer at GY rather than fight my way out which would take 10 minutes if you were at end of it or at one of those longer cells like ghost one. Dailies shouldnt be this annoying since some of us might end up doing these for rest of expansion.
I'm sure they fix it but man, I sure hope its fast.
Sadman71 Dec 18th 2010 8:44AM
Here is what I find humorous in all these arguments, WG was epic. The way you won WG on a faction out balanced server was simply to zerg all siege weapons. Tenacity didnt help, you would get a zerg of defenders on the keep and they would just eat though any vechile heading to the wall.
TB on the other hand requires startegy, some of the articles points are valid, but alot seem like someone who was accustomed to just zerging to win.
I have noticed on my server that we are beginning to work together as a faction and I am back to enjoying pvp(I was part of the vanilla HWL grind)
TB needs small fixes, but is definitely not broken. It plays as it was intended. New zone new startegy.
Now for those who say you cant capture TB, we took it back easy everytime we have to attack. Again work together, seems to be the theme of the expansion.
As for the rating on gamescores, most people who are complaining about Cata seem to have gotten to comfy with the way wrath did everything, Pug friendly. I myself am very happy that Cata has started to feel like vanilla again. OK preparing for the downrating and the flames, but really quit QQing and relook at your class and strategy. Learn to adapt enjoy the newness of everything. The game has changed and so has the mechanics. Be epic and relearn, or just QQ