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12-18-2010 @ 12:10PM
So when can we defect from the Horde? I am tired of being Garrosh's bitch
12-18-2010 @ 12:12PM
I am also sick of being asked to spread Plague, mmkay Sylvanas? talk about bad eggs
12-18-2010 @ 12:18PM
Welcome to the Horde of Garrosh, were morals are quickly becoming a thing of the past...But seriously i wish they would just stop treating Vol'Jin like a gnome.... he is who should have been Warchief not Garoshh
12-18-2010 @ 12:20PM
This sounds like a great idea! While I would never transfer over to alliance, because they're just as douchey, I would love to transfer over to the Twilight Cult! Can you imagine if we could play on Deathwing's side, but to keep from the game being really odd and messed up, we establish a revolution within its ranks and assist in taking him down from within. Like Death Knights, but more neutral. Alliance and Horde could still be angry at us because we're technically the enemy, so PvP would still work. Either that idea or some other neutral thing. The races could actually be the "factions"
12-18-2010 @ 12:54PM
I really, really had hoped Garrosh would have been at the least grievously injured during the intro to Twilight Highlands. No such luck though, of course he comes out of it unscathed.Oh well. Back to the drawing board.
12-18-2010 @ 1:00PM
I'm fine with being evil, it's just that it's stupid evil with the current Horde. Orcs seem to have devolved back into war-obsessed idiots that hate humans for no apparent reason.Bring on the Legion faction! I call shotgun on Shivarra priest.
12-18-2010 @ 1:04PM
you dont have to defect from the horde because of them. the horde is so nuch more than garrosh and sylvans, its also baine and vol'jin.oh yeah and lor'themr
12-18-2010 @ 1:31PM
Yeah, Saurfang Sr. would have been a much better choice. or Eitrigg./sigh
12-18-2010 @ 1:37PM
You know, I wouldn't have much of a problem playing a horde character if they weren't so obviously amoral. Thrall is pretty cool and it's great that we alliance players get a chance to interact with him without having to resort to stabbing him in the face, but Garrosh and Sylvanus don't really make it easy on the player to feel justified in what they're doing. Don't get me wrong, they're both completely badass, but so was Arthas Menethil and Illidan Stormrage. Now don't get me wrong, the alliance has leaders that make questionable decisions too, but I don't think I've ever seen Magni Bronzebeard or High Tinker Mekkatorque do anything close to gassing entire populations with mustard gas. I would like a little bit more gray area when it comes to the factions as it would add internal conflict in the players making us ask, "was it really a good decision to kill all of those orcs when they were on a peacekeeping mission to kill crocodiles that were threatening that gnome town?" I think that if the game made us feel bad about our decisions more often, it would add greater depth to the story and the game. Much more than there is now with the whole, "Orc bad, Orc smash" and "Alliance=good guys for some reason." It was like this in Wrath but not so much now in cataclysm.
12-18-2010 @ 1:44PM
I actually find the new horde much more enjoyable than the old one. The new horde is dynamic and conflicted, its faced with morally ambiguous issues and the whole thing just seems far more realistic and immersive now. It's also not so black and white as I think everyone is making it out to be. You have orcs who don't support Garrosh's warmongering, Forsaken apothecaries who use explosives and who work against the plague as opposed to spreading it, as well as Goblins who choose (try) to put morality over profit every time. It's not like every orc is all "let's butcher some Alliance scum" and every Forsaken isn't all "how many people can we plague-bomb and then raise today?", its complicated.Mostly, however, its a story that's begging for a resolution because of all the conflicts its created. This is a testament to Cata's new storytelling style as it is the new Horde leadership and actions. Its uneasy and I love it. As for defecting, the Horde has always been made up of the "scattered outcasts" of the world, the "enemies of my enemies" groups of people, and there has, and always will be, tensions between these groups. The Alliance, to me, has a fairly common and united purpose, whereas the Horde isn't so clear-cut: each race likes to act semi-autonomously, and they don't have the history of cooperation that the Alliance does. Disagreeing with the actions of Sylvannas or Garrosh or Vol'jin comes with the territory, but in the end the races of the Horde have shown they can band together when it counts, and that's why (if given the choice) I'd stay with them anytime.
12-18-2010 @ 2:08PM
@Neuropox have you played through the troll starting zone?it gives a nice explanation why Vol'Jin is inot in Ogrimar and also why Thrall chose Garrosh over him.doesnt make me like him any more but it helps ease the pain of seeing the wrong warchief(oh and for a feel good garrosh moment, do the horde stonetalon mountains quests, love the ending)
12-18-2010 @ 3:02PM
@N-TrainThrall's Horde was morally ambiguous. The was the whole point of Alliance vs. Horde during the WoW and the first two expansions. Two morally ambiguous super powers fighting over territory and resources.Garrosh's Horde is not morally ambiguous. Garrosh's government and Sylvanas' government are plain evil.
12-18-2010 @ 4:03PM
I'm still hoping that a feature in a future expansion pack, or even a future patch in this one is a "Horde Revolution," where we get to revolt against Garrosh and kill the idiot.
12-18-2010 @ 5:08PM
What happened to Warchief Basic Campfire?
12-18-2010 @ 6:21PM
I still got the idea of a "hero" class - mercenary (unlocked for present but not new toons) at ... say level 70, 75. Once you change to mercenary status, you open up all factions; Alliance to Horde, Horde to Alliance etc - all depending on the amount of gold a questgiver offers. For instance, certain "mercenary quests" would pay more than even dailies, or something.Details ... Well, I'm not qualified for those. I'm just the visionary :)Think about it. An orc working for the Alliance in killing Arthas, or someone else. Deathwing maybe. A nelf working for the Horde, a Goblin working for, uhm ... gnomes. Taurens teaming up with draeneis in a paladin run, Forsaken doing surgical strikes for the Argent Crusade, worgen sniffing out the evidence, murlocs ... posing as humans.Think Blackwater meets Northrend (I doubt the Earthen Ring is ready for sellswords, but anything is possible).With the Alliance and Horde armies gone from Northrend - who keeps the native hostiles in check?Mercenaries.
12-18-2010 @ 10:37PM
WTB Defias reputation, they're seriously the good guys in that story.
12-18-2010 @ 10:51PM
I think that bad people are usually less bad, and good people less good than we like to think.
12-19-2010 @ 12:53AM
@ Dashrendar - I still believe in Basic Campfire! Whenever I see Garrosh I /slap, /spit, and plant our true warchief upon his throne. Sometimes I /challenge him too, but Daddy Issues Hellscream is too craven to accept. Mak'gora!@ Udderpowered - I'm *still* trying to work out why Krom'gar wasted The Bomb on Thal'darah Grove. Alliance side it's never explained why he uses it on an obviously non-military target, so I went through Stonetalon on my goblin and he's actually got General Grebo falsifying evidence that it's a military target! No explanation as to why, and since Daddy Issues Hellscream throws him off the elevator we will never know.
12-19-2010 @ 4:45AM
After playing through Vashj'ir, I want to roll a naga.That is all.
12-19-2010 @ 5:41AM
/sighEveryone is still making a fatal error when considering Garrosh's morality: you're all mistaking anger for villainy. Yes, Garrosh is an extremely angry character who seems to get pissed off at you for just clicking on him, but that's not an indication of evil. And yes, he is very warlike, but that is also not evil. You have to understand, he is leading a group of outcasts here. He is trying to create a place where the people of his faction can be safe from oppression and, in his mind, that means the Alliance needs to go.Now, I can understand how you might have thought Garrosh would be an evil leader BEFORE Cata actually hit, but now that it's out and you can see him in action... SERIOUSLY? How can you think he is not good, let alone pure evil?? Do something for me (actually, for yourself) if you haven't already: go to the Forsaken High Command in Silverpine Forest and talk to Mortuus. Take his quest. Do it. Do it now. Yes, it seems obvious that Sylvanas is becoming increasingly evil, and I'm not arguing that. But I'm talking about Garrosh here. Did you see his reaction?! Do you understand why he reacted that way? Do you realize the very reason that Garrosh introduced an official swear word into WoW for the first time ever, and in voice-acted form??? He compared Sylvanas to the Lich King, and rightfully so. Let me show you the math.Lich King = pure evil. Garrosh + highly negative reaction to (Sylvanas = Lich King) = Garrosh BADASS GOOD GUY.You see? The math proves it. Garrosh is just an extremely angry good guy. Also, do quests in Stonetalon Mountains. I haven't done the quests myself yet, but I heard the sound files pre-Cata. To put it simply (and without ruining it too much), someone does something obviously immoral and horrible, and Garrosh has another badass good guy moment.Seriously people. Get off Garrosh's case. Cataclysm is out, and you should all be able to clearly see, via said expansion, that Garrosh is GOOD. Quit ranting about how he said things in a mean tone to you when you clicked him.
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