Officers' Quarters: Surviving as a small guild
Every Monday, Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership. He is the author of The Guild Leader's Handbook, available now from No Starch Press.
On the heels of last week's column about the guild achievement experience change, I received an email from a concerned guild leader about the future of his small leveling guild. All is not lost for guilds such as his in Cataclysm. This week, I'll talk about how your guild can recruit and survive in a game where the deck suddenly seems stacked against you. But first, let's read his concerns.
The fact that achievements no longer provide experience can actually hurt you in the short term, believe it or not. If you could level up the guild by actively earning the guild achievements within your grasp, you could have an advantage over a large guild that coasts on roster size alone and can't be bothered to complete them. Now you're more or less stuck at a slower pace until you add more members. (Obviously a large guild hell-bent on earning achievements would have the greatest advantage in this scenario, and that's why Blizzard removed the experience in the first place.)
The good news is that it won't take very many additional members to put you on the same pace with a much larger guild, as long as your existing members remain active. The question is how you go about recruiting in this new environment.
Fresh recruiting strategies
To attract players, you need to emphasize your strengths. Most players are already well aware of the advantages of signing up with an enormous megaguild. At the same time, most players are also aware of the drawbacks: You're much more likely to run into drama queens, abrasive jerks, clueless morons, snobs, beggars, loot whores, and all sorts of people you don't want to encounter. There's also frequently the issue of cliques. In a big enough guild, cliques are inevitable.
Some players do not want to be part of that scene. That's why guilds like yours will always be viable no matter what else is happening in the game. When you recruit, you need to play up the family-like atmosphere, the friendly attitudes, the lack of drama, and the willingness of your guildmates to help each other. More players than you might believe value those aspects over whether or not their mount can go 10 percent faster.
You would be wise to differentiate your community in other ways as well. What else makes your guild special? Do your members play at times other than peak for your server? Do you focus on leveling by running dungeons? Do you hold special events or contests? Are your members all from the same part of the world? Anything that can give your guild a specific identity is helpful. If you're really looking to add members, you don't want to be Just Another Random Leveling Guild™.
Encourage your members to be friendly to other players they encounter while questing. Sometimes all it takes is throwing someone a heal or a buff to make a friend. Ask them, when possible, to run dungeons with players on the server rather than strictly through the dungeon finder. By grouping up with them, you'll find like-minded people who are interested in joining a guild. Your members will also have a better idea about how the person acts in a group before you invite him or her to make sure that player is a good fit.
Slow and steady
You're not going to add a huge number of players to the roster this way, but you don't want to. If you did, you'd be a different guild entirely! When you invite someone, make sure you're inviting them because you think they'd be a solid addition to your community, not just because you'll earn perks faster. Over time, you will find the right players, but you'll have to be patient.
You simply can't compete with large guilds in some areas of the game, so don't. Instead, focus on what you can provide that they can't. Differentiate your guild with a clear identity, be friendly, and recruit with care. Your organization will flourish.
/salute
Join us to learn how to survive the leveling process, deal with guild perk freeloaders, and discuss the guild talent controversy or the guild reputation system. Send Scott your guild-related questions and suggestions at scott@wow.com; you may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
On the heels of last week's column about the guild achievement experience change, I received an email from a concerned guild leader about the future of his small leveling guild. All is not lost for guilds such as his in Cataclysm. This week, I'll talk about how your guild can recruit and survive in a game where the deck suddenly seems stacked against you. But first, let's read his concerns.
Scott,
I recently read your article regarding the controversy surrounding the guild achievements. Many aspects of the game are geared towards large groups of people, large guilds, etc. I am the GM of a fairly small guild, small enough that we needed to merge with another guild to manage 5-man guild runs. I have found it difficult enough to recruit folks, scrape together enough friends who haven't already run their 10-man for the week, etc.
Now I feel that our little guild will face even more difficulty in attracting players as we simply can't offer the same guild perks as the large guilds who are capable of hitting the guild experience cap multiple times over on a daily basis while we struggle to reach the halfway point on the scale each day. Allowing guild achievements to provide experience would ultimately make the gap that much wider between the larger guilds and ours.
SGGM: Despair and negativity is not the answer here. It may be difficult to swallow right now, when large guilds have already unlocked a number of the early perks, but remember that you will eventually have those perks, too.I hate to see the recruiting efforts of a start-up guild: "Come, recruits, I am asking you to forgo the larger guilds offering many awesome perks such as more loot from gathers, more experience gains from quests and kills, shorter hearth time, longer elixir durations, cool heirloom gear to further speed your leveling process, etc., and join our fresh guild with zero perks!" Personally I am not sure, but I think lead balloons may go over better ...
My guild is just about in that position. We are about halfway through level 1, while others are posting, "We made it to level 3 today," and I begin to question the future of the small leveling guild composed of friends trustworthy enough to share your Real ID with ...
Sincerely,
Small Guild GM
The fact that achievements no longer provide experience can actually hurt you in the short term, believe it or not. If you could level up the guild by actively earning the guild achievements within your grasp, you could have an advantage over a large guild that coasts on roster size alone and can't be bothered to complete them. Now you're more or less stuck at a slower pace until you add more members. (Obviously a large guild hell-bent on earning achievements would have the greatest advantage in this scenario, and that's why Blizzard removed the experience in the first place.)
The good news is that it won't take very many additional members to put you on the same pace with a much larger guild, as long as your existing members remain active. The question is how you go about recruiting in this new environment.
Fresh recruiting strategies
To attract players, you need to emphasize your strengths. Most players are already well aware of the advantages of signing up with an enormous megaguild. At the same time, most players are also aware of the drawbacks: You're much more likely to run into drama queens, abrasive jerks, clueless morons, snobs, beggars, loot whores, and all sorts of people you don't want to encounter. There's also frequently the issue of cliques. In a big enough guild, cliques are inevitable.
Some players do not want to be part of that scene. That's why guilds like yours will always be viable no matter what else is happening in the game. When you recruit, you need to play up the family-like atmosphere, the friendly attitudes, the lack of drama, and the willingness of your guildmates to help each other. More players than you might believe value those aspects over whether or not their mount can go 10 percent faster.
You would be wise to differentiate your community in other ways as well. What else makes your guild special? Do your members play at times other than peak for your server? Do you focus on leveling by running dungeons? Do you hold special events or contests? Are your members all from the same part of the world? Anything that can give your guild a specific identity is helpful. If you're really looking to add members, you don't want to be Just Another Random Leveling Guild™.
Encourage your members to be friendly to other players they encounter while questing. Sometimes all it takes is throwing someone a heal or a buff to make a friend. Ask them, when possible, to run dungeons with players on the server rather than strictly through the dungeon finder. By grouping up with them, you'll find like-minded people who are interested in joining a guild. Your members will also have a better idea about how the person acts in a group before you invite him or her to make sure that player is a good fit.
Slow and steady
You're not going to add a huge number of players to the roster this way, but you don't want to. If you did, you'd be a different guild entirely! When you invite someone, make sure you're inviting them because you think they'd be a solid addition to your community, not just because you'll earn perks faster. Over time, you will find the right players, but you'll have to be patient.
You simply can't compete with large guilds in some areas of the game, so don't. Instead, focus on what you can provide that they can't. Differentiate your guild with a clear identity, be friendly, and recruit with care. Your organization will flourish.
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
aelastain88 Dec 20th 2010 3:16PM
My guild has the same problem (tho not as bad as we still manage to hit the daily cap, tho sometimes just barely). With around 110-120 members, over 50% of that alts, it can sometimes feel like u can't get a group together or that u can't hit the cap. I can see how a small guild will feel drowned in despair at having to compete with guilds that have 200 members, let along 500.
kmaritato Dec 20th 2010 4:31PM
I know how you feel. I'm the leader of a guild with a total of 12 players in it, and we rarely have more than 2-3 on at a time unless we're raiding. We hit the cap the first two days because everybody was leveling, but we haven't even come close since then, and the odds of us ever doing guild 5-mans are very low unless they're scheduled way in advance. It really sucks that they did this after saying that they were going to keep things balanced for 10 and 25 man guilds when an ideal 10 man guild has barely over 10 people in it and that is clearly not enough to keep the guild leveling fast enough unless everybody plays nonstop.
balazamon0 Dec 20th 2010 4:28PM
Its all in your scope of reference, I had always thought a small guild constituted around 20ish members(not counting alts). 60+ is a pretty good sized though not huge guild I would think. Then again I always stay in guilds with real life friends and never get too deep into raiding content.
Albert Dec 20th 2010 4:44PM
Why not cap the guild xp, to prevent big guilds but allow guild achievements to progress to help big and small guilds that arent lazy and want to do those things. I run a 10 man raiding guild, and was looking forward to getting those achieves and now i dont care, like the personal achievements
Kar Dec 20th 2010 5:44PM
Or how about some diminishing returns on Guild XP? Seriously, there's diminishing returns on everything else in this game.
There several obvious problems with the current set up.
If you're an altoholic, your low-level toons aren't even contributing the vapor off a drop in the bucket for guild XP. This is probably an unsolvable problem unless blizz flat-out maxed guild XP based off of time /played.
If you're in a small guild like the SGGM, you're probably better off shuttering the windows, joining a megaguild as a group and creating a private /chat channel. Essentially, you're a pre-packaged clique in the new guild.
If you're hitting older content (Anzu, not-Baron Rivendare, Argent Tournament), you're dead weight XP-wise.
I think the average WoW player puts in 20 hours/week. How many active L80-85 toons would you need to hit the daily cap?
Just thinking out loud, I guess. Hopefully the HTML works.
Szass Dec 21st 2010 1:57AM
The point being missed in all of these comments is that Blizzard has put this small guild limitation in place to prevent people from simply making solo guilds.
I have my own small alt guild, simply for the storage space and easy sharing between my 2 accounts.They don't want this type of guild getting leveled up.The rules as they stand now favor guild consolidation. I want my hunter to be leveled up, he will no longer stay in my alt guild, he will go into my mains guild to get the perks I will never be able , or even bother to try, to provide.
The intention of this model is crystal clear. There are too many small guilds.
Guild perks and levels will lead to guild consolidation.It is the desired intent.
If you have a 4 man guild, you are either not trying to recruit, which basically puts you in the same boat as my solo guild, or you are doing it wrong.
Even a 4 man guild is ok too , as long as you understand you WILL be operating at a disadvantage.
As far as recruitment and retention goes, recruitment and retention are always constant issues for every guild.This will not change. While the small guilds WILL be at a disadvantage, there are always people who "go for the underdog" or "enjoy a challenge".
That will favor small guilds, also small guilds that want to recruit should remember to not just look for 85's. Sometimes the new players, sometimes they stay on long term.
Just some bits from my mind for ya all to chew on.
LittleHamster Dec 21st 2010 8:28AM
I thought 50-60 members is a fairly large guild too. I'm in a 25man raiding guild, and we have probably 30 members. We hit the guild xp cap every day even before I get back from work. The cap is set fairly low not to punish 10man guilds I believe.
@Kar I think the alts contribute more to the daily cap actually. From what I understand, you only get guild xp from quests, running guild pvp, dungeons and raids. We are semi-casual with raiding (haven't started raiding properly since cata), but all our raiding mains have farmed heroics to the point that it's not worth doing any more (ie 346 geared and maxed out justice points). As it stands now, the only real contributors to guild xp are the alts levelling up or farming gear from normal and heroics 85 dungeons.
Ofc if you are in a PvP guild then arena season just started and the mains should be able to contribute still.
lilrabbit129 Dec 21st 2010 12:43PM
To me your guild is pretty large. My guild is about 20-25 people, with usually about 10 people on at once. Everyone knows each other pretty well. We were hitting the guild xp cap when everyone was leveling but now, not so much. Still we do 5-mans together and hopefully will raid together.
We may not get the perks right away but we're slowly getting them. Level5 now.
Faydre Dec 20th 2010 3:18PM
I do that think as soon as some of those very large guilds reach level 25 they won't have a great need for many of their members and they'll start trimming.
Our guild, Parallelguild.com has held of on recruitment because we don't want members that are only looking for these perks. We want people that are friendly, understand that real life comes first, if you have to drop group in the middle of a heroic, that's fine, that's real life.
In saying all that, the perks are nice, having rank 5 with cash flow allows us to increase the guild repair money.
Persephanie Dec 20th 2010 3:23PM
if you throw out your members their experience goes with them... they dont carry it to the new guild but you do loose it from yours. Its what makes Guilds less likely to kick someone and a individual player less likely to leave.
TimR Dec 20th 2010 3:49PM
@Persephanie - Are you sure about that? My guild recently lost most of our very active members because we decided not to be a dedicated raiding guild this expac. These were the people who rushed to 85, and had earned the most xp for the guild since release. It doesn't appear we've lost any guild xp by them leaving, though.
theRaptor Dec 20th 2010 5:01PM
You don't need many active members. My casual raiding guild (Ancient Prodigies of Frostmourne US) has with the xpac had 20-30 people on most of the day and we hit the cap by mid-afternoon. From this it is my impression that the guild XP cap is set to about that of your ordinary 25 man raiding guild.
Being a mega-guild only carries the advantage of the 10% extra money from mob drops.
Maybe it would be more fair if it was a weekly cap like guild rep, but the cap is fairly easy to hit.
Persephanie Dec 20th 2010 3:22PM
My problem is most of the acheivements and 90% of experience gain is from running 5man heroic dungeons... My guild of 81 members (all goblin) have a really hard time hitting cap every day because questing and low lvl dungons just dont give enough guild experience. We were finally able to hit lvl 2 about a week ago. Thanks to us alowing non gobs in (who made race changes now) to farm 5 man heroics so we could hit lvl 1 and we still havent gotten to lvl 2 yet...
It really gimps low lvl guilds as well.. If your not in a power housing oober leet lvl 80 guild with 500000 memmbers then your screwed and your guild is going to fall apart... No one wants to be in a guild that is lvl 1. eveyone wants guild perks, even at the expense of being in a VERY large oober epeened guild. Rather than in a tight knit guild with friends.
Vladeon Dec 20th 2010 4:20PM
It's all about what you want. Almost all of the guild perks are geared towards a certain playstyle, that of the hardcore raiding guild. If you're an RP guild your members won't get too bent out of shape if you're not glevel 10 by January. If they did, they wouldn't have joined an RP guild. Alternatively you could make RP events to gain xp by doing quests together.
Shelly Dec 24th 2010 12:32PM
If someone is requesting a guild invite based on the perks your guild could bring, you should immediately ignore them.
Kind of like the whole "hazbanktabs, haztabard, hazhelpfullnezz" guild ads you see in chat. Waste of text.
Is there a way to limit which perks are available to which subset of members? Like no increased speed boost for those under x rank? I feel like some of my alts haven't contributed enough to the guild but are getting the benefits from other peoples contributions. Yeah, I also pass on gear upgrades when someone else rolls as need regardless of their (or my) spec.
Squeaksbcod Dec 20th 2010 3:24PM
The problem is that not all small guilds want to actively recruit just to put butts in seats so to speak. I doubt my build will ever feel positive about recruiting people. If people want to join, that is fine, but we are not the type to say "Let's go find people".
I do suspect Blizz will change things around as time goes by. I suspect when many a large guild are all level 25 the leveling will somehow become quicker and faster. But for the time being, I am just accepting (sadly) that for my guild guild levels are not really even worth paying attention to.
It seems the simple compromise would have been that Blizz could have kept achievements as giving XP, but have that XP count as part of the cap. That way if a guild can not get the daily XP due to size, if they want to go do an old world achievement for some extra XP, they have that option, but it is not going to help the mega guilds as there is still a cap in place.
Or they could have just added an age factor to each guild level. I.e. for level 5 you must have X experience and have been a guild for Y time. Then you can farm and rack up XP as much as you like, you are not going to level faster. You may get the level the second it opens, but you still can not get it sooner.
Even worse, I suspect there will be less room for people to PUG now. As raiding in my guild is not really an option I do like to PUG. I actually like it. But with the guild perks and advantages, I just am not too optimistic about seeing as many opportunities. I fear that even running with friends will dry up as many do not want to loose a run being a "guild run" so will not have room.
I was actually looking forward to the guild leveling system, now I find it is just horribly horribly depressing.
Faydre Dec 20th 2010 3:31PM
I agree with your comment about keeping the guild XP for achievements. There are nights and days, especially during the week where it's really hard to reach that max. If Achievements counted then on those night we could go back into BC or MC and make up for it.
I'm just glad they didn't remove the option of gaining guild reputation from doing achievements. So alts can gain rep a little easier.
LittleHamster Dec 21st 2010 8:43AM
I think you are confusing small with inactive. A normal run-of-the-mill 25man raiding guild has about 30 members, and can easily reach the cap. (It's hit sometime before I get home for the evenings). We are on level 5, the cash flow level, and will be level 6 by tomorrow. All our raiders are honored.
I really do believe a 10man pve guild or a 15-20 man pvp guild that is active will have no trouble hitting the cap.
How many people do you have logged on at peak time? We usually have 20+ even on non-raid nights.
CrabMasterJ Dec 20th 2010 3:24PM
Same problem here. I am an officer in a guild of really good friends. Our guild has a current roster of about 115 (just kicked about 30 characters for not loggin in for the last year.) The same goes for us as aelastain, i would say that well over 50% of those are alts of alts of alts. We are lucky if we have more than 4 guildies logged on at any given time. At Cata's launch we were having no trouble hitting the xp cap but now that most of us regulars (once again, 4 of us) have hit 85 and moving away from the majority of time spent quest, and are more focused on farming and dungeon running here and there. I feel the pain for those of you in our situation and i hope we can find some sort way to attract new members.
Rob Dec 20th 2010 3:27PM
Huh, while I appreciate the positive approach in the article and recognize that negativity isn't going to win you any new recruits, I think the letter is completely valid.
This is just putting lipstick on a pig.
Blizzard nerfed the achievement experience, because bigger guilds were leveling faster than they wanted. Unfortunately, they didn't bother trying to figure out if anyone cared.
Very few do. Just about everyone I know and play with is in a small guild. If they are serious Raiders, then obviously, they are in a large guild. Those guilds have nice perks, but so do small guilds.
By taking away Guild Achievements as experience, they seriously nerfed a small guild's ability to advance their guild. My guild is small, maybe 20 members and our alts. We can't hit the Guild XP cap, in fact, we rarely go over 13% of it in a day. We're still Level 1, have zero perks, and our GL is still only "Friendly" with the Guild, yet is 85.
I'm not QQing, I'm asking why a "balance" issue was addressed in a nerf, rather than trying to figure out how to actually balance it.
They nerfed it because XP from Achievements was allowing guilds to exceed the XP cap. But rather than fixing their mistake, they just "fixed the glitch" and eliminated all XP from Achievements. This appears to be how they're fixing a lot of issues, just remove it from the game, rather than fix the mechanic that is bugged.
Anyone still got a Feathered Lure recipe in their inventory that you cannot learn, and cannot get a refund for? But Blizzard just doesn't care?