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12-20-2010 @ 3:27PM
Huh, while I appreciate the positive approach in the article and recognize that negativity isn't going to win you any new recruits, I think the letter is completely valid.This is just putting lipstick on a pig.Blizzard nerfed the achievement experience, because bigger guilds were leveling faster than they wanted. Unfortunately, they didn't bother trying to figure out if anyone cared.Very few do. Just about everyone I know and play with is in a small guild. If they are serious Raiders, then obviously, they are in a large guild. Those guilds have nice perks, but so do small guilds.By taking away Guild Achievements as experience, they seriously nerfed a small guild's ability to advance their guild. My guild is small, maybe 20 members and our alts. We can't hit the Guild XP cap, in fact, we rarely go over 13% of it in a day. We're still Level 1, have zero perks, and our GL is still only "Friendly" with the Guild, yet is 85.I'm not QQing, I'm asking why a "balance" issue was addressed in a nerf, rather than trying to figure out how to actually balance it. They nerfed it because XP from Achievements was allowing guilds to exceed the XP cap. But rather than fixing their mistake, they just "fixed the glitch" and eliminated all XP from Achievements. This appears to be how they're fixing a lot of issues, just remove it from the game, rather than fix the mechanic that is bugged.Anyone still got a Feathered Lure recipe in their inventory that you cannot learn, and cannot get a refund for? But Blizzard just doesn't care?
12-20-2010 @ 3:40PM
Can't agree more. I have a small family guild of 10 members ever since vanilla. We have done all end game content and have fun doing it, but recently we have been a bit more casual and started on a new server for fun. We get about 1-2% guild xp/day. We are only about 70% through level 1...With this rate we won't hit 25 until the next expansion is out. Although many rewards are mostly beneficial in a raid setting like mass rez and mass summon, there are many rewards that we all want, but will most likely never see, like the scorpion mount.Adding members to our roster is not going to happen either. Pretty dissapointed. They are trying to make the game more open for casual players in class balance, but then they do the opposite in the guild leveling game. The more members in your roster, the easier it is to level your guild.
12-20-2010 @ 4:03PM
Player achievements do not earn experience (for a very good reason). To be consistent with what they already know makes for better game play overall, Blizzard had to kill guild achievement experience. They never should have let it out the door in the first place. It never should have seen the virtual light of day.I'm not sure where this attitude of entitlement comes from, but in every other aspect of both real and virtual life, the small fry do not and should not have the same advantages as the big fish. If you are not willing to grow your guild to the size required to get those perks, then you don't deserve to get them. The advantages of being in a small guild, if you decide that's what you want to do, are not related to these guild perks. And the advantages of small guilds are not possible in large guilds due to the cliques, the chaos, and the management headaches. I find it kind of appalling that you think you should have the same perks for your guild as I have for mine without doing all the work I did to grow mine to 200+ members who aren't vile douchebags.Decide what you want for your guild and make it happen. When you get what you want, be happy with it. Celebrate your advantages.
12-20-2010 @ 4:24PM
"By taking away Guild Achievements as experience, they seriously nerfed a small guild's ability to advance their guild. My guild is small, maybe 20 members and our alts. We can't hit the Guild XP cap, in fact, we rarely go over 13% of it in a day. We're still Level 1, have zero perks, and our GL is still only "Friendly" with the Guild, yet is 85."Really? The part about the XP cap being way out of reach seems hard to believe. Guilds with fewer than 20 members exist, and while they probably aren't still at the guild level cap, they probably are higher than 1. The maximum possible at the moment is level 5, my guild is there, and we were struggling to put together 10-man raids for most of the past year. Maybe it will get hard to keep up with guild advancement at higher levels but I'm pretty sure it isn't yet. As for your GL's reputation, "Friendly" is the cap for everyone at the moment. My reputation with my guild is friendly and my guild is level 5 and is on track to hit 6 tomorrow. The complaint that there's no way for large, serious, gung-ho guilds to progress any faster than anyone else seems to be much more common than yours. To put it another way, you say you "rarely go over 13%" of the level cap in a day. That implies that you do, sometimes. Let's be conservative and assume that you average 10 percent of the level cap per day, a very small number. Well, it's been two weeks. Even if you didn't get any of that extra boost from achievements on launch day AT ALL, you should be level 2 at least. So that makes your claim... to put this delicately, hard to take seriously.I dunno. Maybe I'm just nitpicking. It's not like it really matters if you were painstakingly accurate in a comment on a blog, and regardless of the reason you obviously aren't the only person worried about small guilds. But I can't help but take this with a grain of salt.
12-20-2010 @ 8:22PM
honestly, i find it impossible to understand this. my guild is level 4, we have 7 85s and their alts. we are keeping up with bigger guilds, maybe you guys aren't serious players or something, because i find the fact that your not even level 1 impossible.
12-20-2010 @ 4:37PM
Absolutely, Rob. But it goes further. Remember, we can't keep playing such a high-quality game unless the players keep paying their subscription fees. Certain types of players get tired of the game after hitting max level, or once they've gotten all of their raid equipment. These min-maxers usually leave the game at this point. And Blizzard wants to keep this from happening as long as possible. The XP cap was a great tool for this, but removing achievements truly left small guilds alone in the cold. Blizzard made this even more obvious by locking the guild populations at 500.Guild perks is a great idea for rewarding the hard-core players that never stop raiding, but it wasn't meant for any of us that simply enjoy the game for the chance to communicate and participate alongside friends and family.Once again, it wasn't meant for everybody. Blizzard didn't create these perks for me, or for most of the people I play with.Several of my collegues at work play WoW. All of the hard-core raiders that I know HATE the leveling process. One even convinced his cousin to quit playing and let him take his max level rogue and warrior, so he would be able to play the classes without leveling them. When he finishes leveling his 12 max-level toons, he'll probably be doing so with the full compliment of guild perks helping him to get through this unpleasant task of "leveling" as quickly as possible.
12-20-2010 @ 4:54PM
Rob, using the example of the Feathered Lure (an item they have confirmed they will include in a future patch as usable) tells me you're misunderstanding a bit of Blizzard's standard development."I'm not QQing, I'm asking why a "balance" issue was addressed in a nerf, rather than trying to figure out how to actually balance it."This is simple, standard development cycle for something that doesn't work or is imbalanced on any major scale. We haven't had a single Cataclysm patch yet. Patches take a lot of work and potentially cost a lot of money for a company like Blizzard if they go wrong. Things can go wrong. Really wrong. They can hotfix easily, but they can't patch easily. Unfortunately, we'll have to deal with it.Issues like overhauling the guild experience system (and if you've any faith left in the company, they WILL work on it) and malfunctioning items (such as the fishing lure) are easiest to deal with by removing the problem, preventing further problems, and last but not least, fixing it in a future patch. A patch that takes a lot of triple checking and testing before it's even put on a PTR.The longer they left the guild achievement issue unattended, the worse it would have gotten. It didn't fit with their development intentions, so they removed it - quickly - before guilds got 7 or 8 levels ahead of the curve and THEN got nerfed once they figured out - through player feedback such as what you're writing - how to best re-approach guild XP. It may not have been a nice fuzzy move, but it was the best one they had.So if that makes sense, they are trying to figure out how to best deal with it. They just had to set the mechanic aside for a bit, so nobody exploited it too much, until it was working.
12-20-2010 @ 5:39PM
"By taking away Guild Achievements as experience, they seriously nerfed a small guild's ability to advance their guild. My guild is small, maybe 20 members and our alts. We can't hit the Guild XP cap, in fact, we rarely go over 13% of it in a day. We're still Level 1, have zero perks, and our GL is still only "Friendly" with the Guild, yet is 85."Speaking as a "Friendly" Guild Master of a Guild that only hit level 2 just yesterday, I don't see what the problem with this is. Smaller guilds will level slower - that's kind of the point.I am very, very glad they removed Achievement XP. The whole point of Achievements were to set guilds apart from each other. By attaching incentives to every single Achievement, every guild would have exactly the same Achievements...at which point, Blizzard could just remove them all and tie the Guild Rewards to Guild Level, like they do with Perks, and there wouldn't be any noticeable difference.
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