Scattered Shots: Survival hunter 101

Survival saw its first brief moment of raiding glory early in Wrath, just after the great BM nerf dethroned BM from the top position it had held for over two years. Now again at the start of Cataclysm, SV is the frontrunner of hunter raid DPS, in the lead by quite a large margin at the moment.
In addition to the highest DPS, survival also provides the best mobile DPS and the best CC. SV has long ago left behind its roots as a spec built around survivability and instead is the magical damage hunter spec, with only auto-shot, Kill Shot, and the pet contributing any physical damage at all. The SV rotation is very reactionary, rather than planned, but many players love the spec because of that reactionary feel.
Join me after the cut as we dig down into the details of the SV spec in Cataclysm, from talents to glyphs to rotations to stat weights.
SV talent spec
The survival raid spec heads down the MM tree to pick up the powerful Sic 'Em and Careful Aim talents, with a point left over to toss into the BM tree. As always, we're focusing on maximizing our boss damage with our specs. Trash will die either way; it's on the bosses that eking out every ounce of DPS can mean the difference between success and failure. Thus, we aren't maximizing this spec for AoE and only have one point in Serpent Spread. If you really want both ranks there, take the extra point away from Bestial Discipline.
Interestingly, I get a lot of questions about why talents points should go into Bestial Discipline or Sic 'Em. "After all," the logic usually goes, "we aren't BM; why do we want point there?" We may not be BM hunters, but we're still hunters. We still care about our pets, and our pets are still providing thousands of DPS -- even in SV. There's a disturbing tendency among non-BM hunters to completely dismiss our pet's contribution, which is very significant.
We're putting our talents where they will give us the most DPS on boss fights. It's true that Bestial Discipline, for example, may not add a whole lot of DPS, but it's certainly more than the lackluster One with Nature.
SV glyphs
As always, our prime glyphs are our DPS options. We have a lot of nice utility and quality of life options in the major and minor glyph categories, but nothing that's a straight DPS boost. As a result, your major and minor glyph options are a matter of choice, based on your playstyle.
Prime glyphs
SV is the one spec that is probably going to want to give the incredibly powerful Glyph of Arcane Shot a pass. As SV, we fire our Arcane Shot very seldom, maybe once every several rotations at best. The end result is we just don't use the ability often enough to get a lot of use out of the glyph in a raid environment. On the other hand, SV rocks out the Glyph of Serpent Sting, thanks in large part to the Toxicology talent.
Major and minor glyphs
Choose whichever major and minor glyphs suit your playstyle the best. These are primarily utility-based glyphs, not DPS-increasing ones, and what glyph is best depends on how you play.
SV rotation
SV's rotation is very reactionary, which can make it feel a bit clunky at times, but it has the advantage of being fairly automatic without a lot of head-scratching mid-rotation. The only real struggle in the SV rotation is balancing Black Arrow, which can be tricky to get in without pushing Explosive Shot back, particularly if you're wasting focus on Arcane Shot when you really shouldn't be (a common mistake).
You will always want to start by putting up Hunter's Mark and be in Aspect of the Hawk, then get Serpent Sting up on your target at the beginning of the fight. Thereafter, your standard priority looks like this:
- Explosive Shot
- Kill Shot (if available)
- Black Arrow
- Arcane Shot
- Cobra Shot
Lock & Load
Cataclysm has brought SV some fantastic improvements to Lock & Load. Now when L&L procs, it instantly resets the cooldown of Explosive Shot, enabling us to fire it right away. Note that Arcane Shot is also on the L&L proc, so you do not want to fire any Arcane Shots during L&L procs, since it's far less damage than Explosive Shot. Your L&L rotation looks like this:
- Explosive Shot
- Cobra Shot (or Kill Command)
- Explosive Shot
- Cobra Shot
- Explosive Shot
The first 20%
Much like marksman, SV benefits from Careful Aim, and this changes the rotation for the first 20% of the boss fight. During that first 20% of boss health, SV's Cobra Shot will actually average more damage than Arcane Shot. This means you will not want to use Arcane Shot for that first 20%, even if it means capping out on focus.
However, since you have to start the fight with Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting, and Black Arrow, you're usually spending most of that first 20% without enough focus for as many Arcane Shots anyway.
Rotation rumors
This is also a good point to address various SV rotation rumors that are floating around here and there.
It is a very bad idea for SV to take Improved Steady Shot and try to weave Steady Shot into the rotation to get the haste buff. Steady Shot does significantly less damage than Cobra Shot (it is reduced by armor, which is huge) and is not affected by SV's mastery. It works out for MM hunters because they have Piercing Shots and Master Marksman that combo with Steady Shot.
You want to use Black Arrow, and not Explosive Trap. At one point during the beta, it was better to use Explosive Trap because it gave you more ticks to proc Lock & Load; however, Black Arrow's damage was buffed significantly since then -- yet somehow the logic of that moment during the beta still lingers.
It's generally a bad idea to trap launch an Ice Trap to force Lock & Load procs. It costs you a little bit of focus and a big bit of time. With launched traps requiring two button presses and targeting plus triggering the GCD and no guarantee of the proc (I know it should proc now, but it does not always proc on immune targets), you're losing more DPS than you're gaining.
You want to use Explosive Shot. I know that Cobra Shot does crazy-good damage for SV, but even during the first 20% when you have Careful Aim active, Explosive Shot is still better. In fact, even if every Cobra Shot crit and zero Explosive Shots crit, Explosive Shot would still be more damage. Keep in mind that Explosive Shot is ticking three times every time you fire it -- so you don't see that one giant number, but those three ticks are huge when added together.
SV stat weights
Your stat weights will change not just with your spec, but also with every single change you make to your gear. Literally upgrading one piece of gear will change the exact value of the weights. I'm going to provide some general qualitative SV stat weights as a guideline to at least identify which stat is better, but the only way to get accurate weights for you is to use a tool like Zeherah's DPS Analyzer.
SV stat weights, from highest to lowest:
- ranged DPS
- agility
- hit rating
- crit rating
- haste rating
- mastery rating
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
speedytbc7 Dec 27th 2010 7:05PM
First...For the first time ever
VioletArrows Dec 27th 2010 7:24PM
Congrats! You get voted down because nobody cares and it's stupid!
(Seriously, why do people still do this knowing everyone who's ever done this gets voted down to oblivion, deleted, or outright banned?)
Sarhna Dec 27th 2010 11:46PM
@VioletArrows It's called trolling, and it looks like its working.
speedytbc7 Dec 27th 2010 7:08PM
Also, excellent read. As a die-hard BM hunter, I've considered switching to SV now that the spec has been modified and revamped.
Ata Dec 27th 2010 7:18PM
Did you copy the list of stat weights from the MM article? I know all three specs are pretty identical, the typo of 'MM stat weights, from highest to lowest.' was a little noticeable. ^^;
Otherwise, thank you for this article. I went SV in Wrath and loved it all through ICC, (we needed the replenishment) and while my hunter is probably not going to be my raiding main, its still good to know how to stat and gear up. I was waiting for this one! Thank you. :)
Gossamer Dec 27th 2010 7:48PM
I think he must have copy/pasted the format, as mastery is vaguely better than worst for the other two specs.
Frostheim Dec 27th 2010 8:48PM
Thanks for the heads up! Yup, I just copy the format over so that it stays consistent for every 101 for the hunter specs.
Twill Dec 28th 2010 6:49AM
Frost, I think mastery has diminishing returns. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the more mastery you have, the less it does (like dodge for tanks).
can you check? o.0
Frostheim Dec 28th 2010 1:31PM
Mastery does *not* have diminishing returns. Every 1 mastery you get will increase your dps by the exact same amount (assuming nothing else is changinjg) regardless of how much you have.
Brontag Dec 27th 2010 7:19PM
Great stuff, always a fan of your work. Tiniest thing, though: under the final header ("SV stat weights") you wrote "MM stat weighs, from highest to lowest". I'm assuming that's just a mistype.
Mojo Dec 27th 2010 7:32PM
Could you post a link to the spec please?
Pyromelter Dec 27th 2010 7:35PM
Does haste affect hunter DoTs?
Frostheim Dec 27th 2010 8:25PM
No, haste does not affect our dots.
The general rule of thumb is this: if haste improves your resource regeneration, then it does not affect your dots. If it doesn't improve your resource regen, then your dots will get boosted.
Xayíde Dec 28th 2010 12:52PM
What about clipping? Can you clip Hunter DoTs betwee the final 2 ticks without losing DPS like you can with caster DoTs?
benbettis Jan 13th 2011 3:15PM
No one ever answered your clipping question.
Before Cataclysm, we had to worry about clipping serpent sting when we had to manually reapply it as BM or SV, though it wasn't nearly as detrimental to our dps as say, a Shadow Priest clipping their dots. Nowadays, serpent sting is meant to be kept up by refreshing it with Chimera Shot (if MM) or Cobra Shot (SV and BM). Reapplying is a waste of a gcd now.
Black Arrow's DoT duration is shorter than it's CD. So that solves that problem for us.
Dreadbeard Dec 28th 2010 9:14AM
This game has turned into an math major's wet dream and a player's nightmare.
VioletArrows Dec 27th 2010 7:44PM
My main spec is Beast Master and was wondering which one of the other two specs I should try first, SV or MM to make transition to another spec easier (I'm not really concerned about dps charts either, so whatever).
SR Dec 27th 2010 11:58PM
Ya know, I really didn't like SV during wrath, since it really was a hassle to get SV to work properly back then (At least, to me) for around 200 DPS boost (for me), so I just went with MM and was totally fine with it.
Then, I tried out SV in Cata, and man. It feels a lot better playing it now, than the multi-debuff-managing prototype in Wrath. Just the fact that I only have to fire Serpent Sting ONCE made my life so much easier.
In addition, unlike MM, you have to manage less cooldowns, since I barely get to fire (?) one Rapid Fire per fight. (Only been in dungeons for my hunter) Not to mention, it looks like Marksman is pretty much at where it was when Wrath launched. You might not care about your DPS, but... Man. I think I can actually run my BM spec better than Marksman.
Don't hate!
Moofius Dec 27th 2010 7:47PM
Let's say you have 90 focus, and you get a lock and load proc, wouldn't it be better dps to do Explosive Shot>Arcane Shot>Explosive Shot>Cobra shot(x1.5 or what the time extra is) instead of the suggested Explosive Shot>Kill Command>Explosive Shot>Cobra Shot>Explosive Shot.
I remember reading this on elitist jerks, but maybe I'm just remembering wrong.
disdrgfreak Dec 27th 2010 8:30PM
Nope. Arcane Shot consumes LnL procs, so Kill Command is indeed better.