Scattered Shots: Survival hunter 101

Survival saw its first brief moment of raiding glory early in Wrath, just after the great BM nerf dethroned BM from the top position it had held for over two years. Now again at the start of Cataclysm, SV is the frontrunner of hunter raid DPS, in the lead by quite a large margin at the moment.
In addition to the highest DPS, survival also provides the best mobile DPS and the best CC. SV has long ago left behind its roots as a spec built around survivability and instead is the magical damage hunter spec, with only auto-shot, Kill Shot, and the pet contributing any physical damage at all. The SV rotation is very reactionary, rather than planned, but many players love the spec because of that reactionary feel.
Join me after the cut as we dig down into the details of the SV spec in Cataclysm, from talents to glyphs to rotations to stat weights.
SV talent spec
The survival raid spec heads down the MM tree to pick up the powerful Sic 'Em and Careful Aim talents, with a point left over to toss into the BM tree. As always, we're focusing on maximizing our boss damage with our specs. Trash will die either way; it's on the bosses that eking out every ounce of DPS can mean the difference between success and failure. Thus, we aren't maximizing this spec for AoE and only have one point in Serpent Spread. If you really want both ranks there, take the extra point away from Bestial Discipline.
Interestingly, I get a lot of questions about why talents points should go into Bestial Discipline or Sic 'Em. "After all," the logic usually goes, "we aren't BM; why do we want point there?" We may not be BM hunters, but we're still hunters. We still care about our pets, and our pets are still providing thousands of DPS -- even in SV. There's a disturbing tendency among non-BM hunters to completely dismiss our pet's contribution, which is very significant.
We're putting our talents where they will give us the most DPS on boss fights. It's true that Bestial Discipline, for example, may not add a whole lot of DPS, but it's certainly more than the lackluster One with Nature.
SV glyphs
As always, our prime glyphs are our DPS options. We have a lot of nice utility and quality of life options in the major and minor glyph categories, but nothing that's a straight DPS boost. As a result, your major and minor glyph options are a matter of choice, based on your playstyle.
Prime glyphs
SV is the one spec that is probably going to want to give the incredibly powerful Glyph of Arcane Shot a pass. As SV, we fire our Arcane Shot very seldom, maybe once every several rotations at best. The end result is we just don't use the ability often enough to get a lot of use out of the glyph in a raid environment. On the other hand, SV rocks out the Glyph of Serpent Sting, thanks in large part to the Toxicology talent.
Major and minor glyphs
Choose whichever major and minor glyphs suit your playstyle the best. These are primarily utility-based glyphs, not DPS-increasing ones, and what glyph is best depends on how you play.
SV rotation
SV's rotation is very reactionary, which can make it feel a bit clunky at times, but it has the advantage of being fairly automatic without a lot of head-scratching mid-rotation. The only real struggle in the SV rotation is balancing Black Arrow, which can be tricky to get in without pushing Explosive Shot back, particularly if you're wasting focus on Arcane Shot when you really shouldn't be (a common mistake).
You will always want to start by putting up Hunter's Mark and be in Aspect of the Hawk, then get Serpent Sting up on your target at the beginning of the fight. Thereafter, your standard priority looks like this:
- Explosive Shot
- Kill Shot (if available)
- Black Arrow
- Arcane Shot
- Cobra Shot
Lock & Load
Cataclysm has brought SV some fantastic improvements to Lock & Load. Now when L&L procs, it instantly resets the cooldown of Explosive Shot, enabling us to fire it right away. Note that Arcane Shot is also on the L&L proc, so you do not want to fire any Arcane Shots during L&L procs, since it's far less damage than Explosive Shot. Your L&L rotation looks like this:
- Explosive Shot
- Cobra Shot (or Kill Command)
- Explosive Shot
- Cobra Shot
- Explosive Shot
The first 20%
Much like marksman, SV benefits from Careful Aim, and this changes the rotation for the first 20% of the boss fight. During that first 20% of boss health, SV's Cobra Shot will actually average more damage than Arcane Shot. This means you will not want to use Arcane Shot for that first 20%, even if it means capping out on focus.
However, since you have to start the fight with Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting, and Black Arrow, you're usually spending most of that first 20% without enough focus for as many Arcane Shots anyway.
Rotation rumors
This is also a good point to address various SV rotation rumors that are floating around here and there.
It is a very bad idea for SV to take Improved Steady Shot and try to weave Steady Shot into the rotation to get the haste buff. Steady Shot does significantly less damage than Cobra Shot (it is reduced by armor, which is huge) and is not affected by SV's mastery. It works out for MM hunters because they have Piercing Shots and Master Marksman that combo with Steady Shot.
You want to use Black Arrow, and not Explosive Trap. At one point during the beta, it was better to use Explosive Trap because it gave you more ticks to proc Lock & Load; however, Black Arrow's damage was buffed significantly since then -- yet somehow the logic of that moment during the beta still lingers.
It's generally a bad idea to trap launch an Ice Trap to force Lock & Load procs. It costs you a little bit of focus and a big bit of time. With launched traps requiring two button presses and targeting plus triggering the GCD and no guarantee of the proc (I know it should proc now, but it does not always proc on immune targets), you're losing more DPS than you're gaining.
You want to use Explosive Shot. I know that Cobra Shot does crazy-good damage for SV, but even during the first 20% when you have Careful Aim active, Explosive Shot is still better. In fact, even if every Cobra Shot crit and zero Explosive Shots crit, Explosive Shot would still be more damage. Keep in mind that Explosive Shot is ticking three times every time you fire it -- so you don't see that one giant number, but those three ticks are huge when added together.
SV stat weights
Your stat weights will change not just with your spec, but also with every single change you make to your gear. Literally upgrading one piece of gear will change the exact value of the weights. I'm going to provide some general qualitative SV stat weights as a guideline to at least identify which stat is better, but the only way to get accurate weights for you is to use a tool like Zeherah's DPS Analyzer.
SV stat weights, from highest to lowest:
- ranged DPS
- agility
- hit rating
- crit rating
- haste rating
- mastery rating
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots






Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
Zippö Dec 27th 2010 9:19PM
i would hardly think so, as your arcane would not do as much damage as the extra explosive would.
so you would just waste the L&L proc, by getting an arcane of it, like you said: Explosive(prec), arcane(proc), explosive(45 focus), cobra.
if you were at 90 focus, you'd still cap out during the two GCD's it takes to fire the first two (free) shots, with the regen rate at about 4,5 focus/sec. so even when you play it well, you end up with 99 focus.
you could also say, you would have been on the cap for about 3,5 GCDs(cobra, explosive, cobra, with a 1,5 sec cast time for cobra shot). at 90 focus, you would gain 4,5 during the first explosive you fire of, another 9 during the first cobra. but you would be at 100 after half the cobra, so you're at the cap during the other half of that cobra shot, the next explosive(still for free), and the next cobra shot, and you would burn it away with the third explosive, which would be of the proc.
so you would have 'wasted' 18 focus you would have gained during the time you were capped out.
on the other hand, if you were to fire an arcane instead of the explosive, you would have wasted a bit more focus there actually, as arcane shot only costs 25 focus(22 if talented), so the difference to the explosive is 20 focus. so you see, you pretty much lost 2 focus there, as you could have taken the far more expansive shot to fire for free, which would have done much more damage anyways.
as is start to think about it more deeply, it might shift a bit with a longer ast time for coba, but i'll have to figure that one out myself, and i got no access to wow for another week^^
Moofius Dec 27th 2010 9:21PM
The elitist jerks guide seem to be written using beta numbers, back then arcane shot did more damage, and thus it was better to use it instead of kill command.
I recalculated with damage from a recent recount and comparing to femaledwarf, doing exp>arc>exp>arc>arc gave 100k damage, and exp>kill>exp>arc>exp gave 120k damage.
focus usage for only arc: 90 focus
focus usage for including kill: 102 focus
Now, how much damage is 12 focus?
Arcane shot dps: 11729 Cobra shot dps: 7600
Difference is 4k, 4k/22*12 = 2k, thus cost of focus is neglible
Conclusion: exp>kill>exp>arc>exp gives the most dps, but it is not that much of a difference, so if your pet is out shopping, you can always use your lock and load proc on an arcane shot.
I used numbers from femaledwarf.com, and it's only a rough scetch in my head.
I'm just saying that this issue requires more testing than saying what you just said, just because it may seem obvious and everyone is doing it, maybe it's not.
Iirdan Dec 27th 2010 10:30PM
It would be more DPS, but you are wasting your focus. Keep in mind that Arcane Shot will consume the charge of Lock and Load, so your second Explosive Shot costs full focus and triggers the cooldown.
The ES -> KC -> ES -> AS -> ES method means that a Kill Command soaks up the extra focus that you generate between LNL Explosive Shots, and then you have enough left over to use an Arcane Shot and an Explosive Shot at the end of the proc. It also nets you THREE Explosive Shots per LNL proc rather than just two.
hillbillyrod Dec 27th 2010 7:49PM
I wonder if it bothers bliz to know the best spec is the spec that does magic damage. Kinda kicks that mana argument in the testicular fortitude.
Anywho I'm a full blown member of member of BM spec but raid/pvp on Sur(only time I go BM in raids is with the switch boss in halls) When you PVP isn't haste more important that since it increases focus regin. Or is the increase so small it gets outweighted. By the way best articles on wow...
Necromann Dec 27th 2010 8:02PM
The increase in focus regen that haste gives is very small.
Juanin Dec 27th 2010 8:11PM
Very useful article.
I used to do CS-SS-BA-ES-CS-AS-CS until my focus is capped and then repeat, but I'll give this new rotation a shot. I feel that One With Nature is the only BM talent I'd give 3 points to just for the 30% bonus for AotH though. I personally don't care much about pets except for their singular abilities, which prove much useful for me than their DPS. If I am wrong, please open my mind!
jorSbalZla Dec 27th 2010 9:22PM
Try dismissing your pet and see how much dps you lose ;)
Knoxontholos Dec 27th 2010 8:15PM
Anyone got a talent calc on based on this guide? Thinking of switching my 85 to SV here soon.
Hanak Dec 28th 2010 8:58AM
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#c0oZfMMZcbhfMhrRsk
or possibly
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#c0oZfMMZcrhcMhrRsk
I'm really not sure about the second tier talents, while the rest of the spec was easily deducible from the text.
John Dec 27th 2010 8:22PM
Do you mean the percentage of DPS gained from increasing the crit stat decreases on the way up to 100%? Or does that only apply on the 0-1% and 99-100% ranges?
And are you referring to the percentage of DPS that is gained only from the crit stat, or DPS in general?
Frostheim Dec 27th 2010 8:40PM
The percentage of dps gained from increasing the crit stat decreases as crit goes up; however, the amount of dps gained from 1% crit is always the same. It's just that as the total increases the percentage that the same amount gives is smaller.
So if you do 100 dps, and 1% crit gets you an increase of 1 dps, going from 0-1% crit brings you to 101 dps, a 1% gain.
Going from 1% to 2% still gives you 1 dps, but this brings you to 102 dps, which is 0.99% dps gain. So crit is *not* getting worse when you have more, just that as your total dps increases from crit, the percentage from the previous total that that 1 dps brings gets smaller.
Twill Dec 28th 2010 6:51AM
isn't that true of every stat?
ImSteevin Dec 27th 2010 8:24PM
Anyone have an idea of how much haste is optimal for SV? I'm at 646 and cobra shot is at 1.7sec which feels like an eternity after getting steady down to GCD in wrath, anyone have any luck playing with this? I can't stand seeing LnL proc and waiting for a Cobra to finish up.
stealbeard Dec 27th 2010 9:00PM
About Serpent Spread, I would say take both ranks. Add burn phases seems to be a favorite mechanic for Blizzard in both heroics and raids. Have you done Magmaw yet?
Zippö Dec 27th 2010 9:18PM
not to sure about two ranks of serpent spread, as you hardly benefit from it at all i guess.
in the 6 sec the dot is active with one rank, you can easily get 40 focus for your next multishot, which you would probably fire as soon as possible. given that there would be 9 sec of it, you might be clipping it, probably after the first tick, just before the 2nd, which would lower the benefit of the second point there by quite a bit.
i don't really think you benefit from the 30% initial damge from improved serpent sting either, so really no point to take both ranks.
Weimar Dec 27th 2010 9:09PM
You forgot to put a link to the SV talent build. Or did you purposely leave that out?
Ithrandil Dec 27th 2010 9:09PM
Do you still have to worry about clipping the explosive shot dot during lock n load procs like in wrath?
SR Dec 27th 2010 11:59PM
Yup, which is why he put Cobra Shot for semi-focus-starvation, and Kill Command for focus-overload.
Drahken Dec 27th 2010 9:37PM
I don't understand why you wouldn't want to take One with Nature. With 3 points at 85, that's about a 200 RAP increase when you have Aspect of the Hawk up (which is always). That's a boost the all your attacks all the time compared to Careful Aim boosting only one of your attacks a small amount of the time. You mention pet DPS, and along those lines, I'd think 2 points in Frenzy would be better than 2 points in Careful Aim. But then, I guess that's why I'm not the hunter expert.
Kheldul Dec 27th 2010 11:30PM
WRT your shot priority:
1) Explosive Shot
2) Kill Shot (if available)
I tend to go with:
1) Kill Shot (if available)
2) Explosive Shot
If it's a simple mob, I hit it with KS and KS again (thanks Glyph!). This is usually just a faster way through trash.
If it's a boss, I may end up with KS, KS, ES, other dps, and baaarely eek in a second KS, KS on the boss.