Scattered Shots: Survival hunter 101

Survival saw its first brief moment of raiding glory early in Wrath, just after the great BM nerf dethroned BM from the top position it had held for over two years. Now again at the start of Cataclysm, SV is the frontrunner of hunter raid DPS, in the lead by quite a large margin at the moment.
In addition to the highest DPS, survival also provides the best mobile DPS and the best CC. SV has long ago left behind its roots as a spec built around survivability and instead is the magical damage hunter spec, with only auto-shot, Kill Shot, and the pet contributing any physical damage at all. The SV rotation is very reactionary, rather than planned, but many players love the spec because of that reactionary feel.
Join me after the cut as we dig down into the details of the SV spec in Cataclysm, from talents to glyphs to rotations to stat weights.
SV talent spec
The survival raid spec heads down the MM tree to pick up the powerful Sic 'Em and Careful Aim talents, with a point left over to toss into the BM tree. As always, we're focusing on maximizing our boss damage with our specs. Trash will die either way; it's on the bosses that eking out every ounce of DPS can mean the difference between success and failure. Thus, we aren't maximizing this spec for AoE and only have one point in Serpent Spread. If you really want both ranks there, take the extra point away from Bestial Discipline.
Interestingly, I get a lot of questions about why talents points should go into Bestial Discipline or Sic 'Em. "After all," the logic usually goes, "we aren't BM; why do we want point there?" We may not be BM hunters, but we're still hunters. We still care about our pets, and our pets are still providing thousands of DPS -- even in SV. There's a disturbing tendency among non-BM hunters to completely dismiss our pet's contribution, which is very significant.
We're putting our talents where they will give us the most DPS on boss fights. It's true that Bestial Discipline, for example, may not add a whole lot of DPS, but it's certainly more than the lackluster One with Nature.
SV glyphs
As always, our prime glyphs are our DPS options. We have a lot of nice utility and quality of life options in the major and minor glyph categories, but nothing that's a straight DPS boost. As a result, your major and minor glyph options are a matter of choice, based on your playstyle.
Prime glyphs
SV is the one spec that is probably going to want to give the incredibly powerful Glyph of Arcane Shot a pass. As SV, we fire our Arcane Shot very seldom, maybe once every several rotations at best. The end result is we just don't use the ability often enough to get a lot of use out of the glyph in a raid environment. On the other hand, SV rocks out the Glyph of Serpent Sting, thanks in large part to the Toxicology talent.
Major and minor glyphs
Choose whichever major and minor glyphs suit your playstyle the best. These are primarily utility-based glyphs, not DPS-increasing ones, and what glyph is best depends on how you play.
SV rotation
SV's rotation is very reactionary, which can make it feel a bit clunky at times, but it has the advantage of being fairly automatic without a lot of head-scratching mid-rotation. The only real struggle in the SV rotation is balancing Black Arrow, which can be tricky to get in without pushing Explosive Shot back, particularly if you're wasting focus on Arcane Shot when you really shouldn't be (a common mistake).
You will always want to start by putting up Hunter's Mark and be in Aspect of the Hawk, then get Serpent Sting up on your target at the beginning of the fight. Thereafter, your standard priority looks like this:
- Explosive Shot
- Kill Shot (if available)
- Black Arrow
- Arcane Shot
- Cobra Shot
Lock & Load
Cataclysm has brought SV some fantastic improvements to Lock & Load. Now when L&L procs, it instantly resets the cooldown of Explosive Shot, enabling us to fire it right away. Note that Arcane Shot is also on the L&L proc, so you do not want to fire any Arcane Shots during L&L procs, since it's far less damage than Explosive Shot. Your L&L rotation looks like this:
- Explosive Shot
- Cobra Shot (or Kill Command)
- Explosive Shot
- Cobra Shot
- Explosive Shot
The first 20%
Much like marksman, SV benefits from Careful Aim, and this changes the rotation for the first 20% of the boss fight. During that first 20% of boss health, SV's Cobra Shot will actually average more damage than Arcane Shot. This means you will not want to use Arcane Shot for that first 20%, even if it means capping out on focus.
However, since you have to start the fight with Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting, and Black Arrow, you're usually spending most of that first 20% without enough focus for as many Arcane Shots anyway.
Rotation rumors
This is also a good point to address various SV rotation rumors that are floating around here and there.
It is a very bad idea for SV to take Improved Steady Shot and try to weave Steady Shot into the rotation to get the haste buff. Steady Shot does significantly less damage than Cobra Shot (it is reduced by armor, which is huge) and is not affected by SV's mastery. It works out for MM hunters because they have Piercing Shots and Master Marksman that combo with Steady Shot.
You want to use Black Arrow, and not Explosive Trap. At one point during the beta, it was better to use Explosive Trap because it gave you more ticks to proc Lock & Load; however, Black Arrow's damage was buffed significantly since then -- yet somehow the logic of that moment during the beta still lingers.
It's generally a bad idea to trap launch an Ice Trap to force Lock & Load procs. It costs you a little bit of focus and a big bit of time. With launched traps requiring two button presses and targeting plus triggering the GCD and no guarantee of the proc (I know it should proc now, but it does not always proc on immune targets), you're losing more DPS than you're gaining.
You want to use Explosive Shot. I know that Cobra Shot does crazy-good damage for SV, but even during the first 20% when you have Careful Aim active, Explosive Shot is still better. In fact, even if every Cobra Shot crit and zero Explosive Shots crit, Explosive Shot would still be more damage. Keep in mind that Explosive Shot is ticking three times every time you fire it -- so you don't see that one giant number, but those three ticks are huge when added together.
SV stat weights
Your stat weights will change not just with your spec, but also with every single change you make to your gear. Literally upgrading one piece of gear will change the exact value of the weights. I'm going to provide some general qualitative SV stat weights as a guideline to at least identify which stat is better, but the only way to get accurate weights for you is to use a tool like Zeherah's DPS Analyzer.
SV stat weights, from highest to lowest:
- ranged DPS
- agility
- hit rating
- crit rating
- haste rating
- mastery rating
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots






Reader Comments (Page 3 of 3)
Skarn Dec 27th 2010 11:55PM
Note that if you are using a trap for CC anyway at the start of a fight, it's a great way to get a L&L proc. It may not be useful for the final mob of a pack, but it's an excellent way to start a pull.
obarthelemy Dec 28th 2010 2:41AM
Thanks. I'm trying to switch away from BM since my DPS is lackluster. I'm at MM currently, and not linking it (too complicated). Now I can give SV a try.
Hanak Dec 28th 2010 8:55AM
Your link for Glyph of Explosive Shot should be http://www.wowhead.com/spell=63066
Right now you link to the shot instead of the glyph :)
rodmin Dec 28th 2010 9:11AM
Nice guide indeed. Kudos.
There's just one problem though: the glyph of explosive shot is showing the spell instead of the actual glyph.
Donut Dec 29th 2010 3:03AM
Great read...I'm currently leveling a worgen hunter and im leveling as SV its been a blast and can honestly say this will definitely help out when I get to Raiding and Dungeons thanks for the great post.
wescobar Dec 30th 2010 9:14AM
I have a slight issue with the rumors section. Personally, I have no issue with weaving steady shot into my rotation, or even with 2 steady shots for the buff. I find that, for me, keeping this buff, along with the serpent sting debuff is relatively easy, does more damage than cobra shot, and provides me with enough extra focus to not have to worry about what to do next. My rotation:
serpent>black>explosive>steady>steady>cobra>explosive and KC as a dump and the given LnL rotation
My main "issue" is using Black Arrow as soon as it's off CD, but this is more or less easily mitigated by not using KC or throwing and extra cobra shot when I see Black Arrow is coming up. I'm pulling 10-12k dps on most bosses in PVP/hybrid gear and a full raid spec (I mostly PVP, trying to gear for raids). Is there something I'm doing right/wrong? Is there potential for more dps with those 2 pionts spent elsewhere?
Tl;dr version: I have 2 points in improved steady shot and it works fine for me (10-12k boss dps). Can I do better with those talents elsewhere?
wsvap Jan 4th 2011 10:04AM
Something is not clear to me, why to talent Careful Aim if:
We don't use Steady Shot - "It is a very bad idea for SV to take Improved Steady Shot and try to weave Steady Shot into the rotation to get the haste buff. Steady Shot does significantly less damage than Cobra Shot"
We don't have Aimed Shot.
So for only the few Cobra shot? - "You want to use Explosive Shot. I know that Cobra Shot does crazy-good damage for SV, but even during the first 20% when you have Careful Aim active, Explosive Shot is still better. In fact, even if every Cobra Shot crit and zero Explosive Shots crit, Explosive Shot would still be more damage."
So isn't it better to talent 2 points One with Nature witch is effect all our ranged attacks?
thx
Frostheim Jan 4th 2011 7:40PM
Careful Aim is far, far better than One with Nature. We do indeed like it just for Cobra Shot -- even though Explosive Shot is our best shot, it has a 6-second cooldown. We end up using Cobra Shot more often than any other shot, and that's a massive crit boost for the first 20% of the fight.
Tielc Jan 17th 2011 10:42AM
A very good read for me. I picked up my hunter last night who had been a little dusty since before 4.0. So learning everything all over. Knowing SV was the way to go, this was the only comprehensive artical. The only thing it's missing is a link to the complete spec. It makes mention of a few talents here and there, but a full spec breakdown wasn't provided. I ask, because on Wowpopular, several people have talen Entrapment, and I don't really understand the value. I would think in a pure dps sense Survival Tactics or Point of No Escape would provide more value. Even though all three of the non obvious talents in this tier are all pretty much utility anyway.
Swiftblade Jan 20th 2011 12:16PM
What about Aspect of the Fox? Isn't that a necessity in fights where movement becomes a must to avoid boss's AoE and dmg? I love Hawk's DPS but I find I need Fox's ability to move and fire.
And THANK YOU for these awesome guides...can't believe I've been a hunter since '04 beta and haven't learned all this stuff. Yea - I got motivated to learn it all when I was in Heroic Grim Batol the other night and was getting flamed for my under 4K dps rating...now I'm always above 5K and learning my rotations better and occasionally getting over 6K...THANK YOU!!