The Queue: Why the Tol Barad change is putting lipstick on a pig

We're going to take a moment out of our normal Queue banter and focus on a change to Tol Barad implemented recently in a hotfix. The change is as follow:
Tol Barad: Winning as an attacker now rewards players with 1800 Honor Points, up from 180. Winning as a defender still rewards players with 180 Honor Points.
This makes it much more advantageous to gain control of the zone, and indeed will likely act as an effective stimulant for players to return to the zone in hope of capturing it. However, this is not a fix for the zone, nor does it do anything other than create a system of unsustainable inequality. Let me elaborate.
With this change, we'll see one of three possible results. First (and I think the most likely), the controlling side will be encouraged to just let the other team capture the zone, in order to retake the zone themselves the next cycle. This back-and-forth swapping will give the greedy person (which modern economics dictates we are) the most reward (honor points) and thus, the most happiness. Another possibility is that one faction will control the zone without allowing the other team to take it back (which is much too easy) and not reap any rewards ever; I consider this a potential on servers that have a high-end raiding guild that's already bored with the content. The final possibility is that this will actually encourage proper equitable fighting in Tol Barad, which I find to be the most unlikely of possibilities.
Tol Barad is fundamentally broken in that the defense has at least a 3:1 advantage over the attackers, making it near impossible for an attacking force to retake the zone given any sort of coordinated defense (which I'm personally convinced can be achieved with as little as a well-geared 5-man group). The zone can be fixed by providing a combination of rewards for winning and losing the zone, changing the way in which the control of the zone is gained, implementing mechanics to stop the zone from being a back-and-forth hot potato with the towers, or any number of other creative solutions.
When I say this is not a fix for the zone, many people will say, "Duh, it's just a minor change." And they'd be right; it is. But we really don't know what's going on in the developers' minds. We don't know if this is the only fix we'll see for the next month or two, or just the tip of the iceberg, with more to come next week. Unfortunately, there has been no communication from Blizzard on this matter, leaving us to speculate when and if things will really get fixed. As broken as Tol Barard is, so too is the flow of communication from WoW's creators.
For more information on Tol Barad, see Mat McCurley's post on the matter and Zach Yonzon's guide to winning the zone.
Oh, and originally? This Queue was going to talk about Mork and Mindy. But Tol Barad is better. On with our regularly scheduled program ...
Begy asked:
Has anyone worked out chances to get epic archaeology items?
No, but it's really really low. My guess, given past epics from the RNG in other instances and mechanics, would be that you have between a 0.5% and a 1% chance of getting an epic. But that's only my educated guess; there's no hard data that I've seen to support such numbers.
Gamer am I asked:
Do we know what the new gold sinks for Cataclysm are going to be?
The Vial of the Sands is the sink, with a total cost of around 45k to 55k gold. There's also a lot of encouragement in this expansion to level alts and gear them up, so there are a lot of gold sinks involved with them as well.
Level1Paladin asked:
Wowpedia vs. Wowwiki? Which should I go for?
Whichever one you want. We're using Wowpedia.
Na-nu, na-nu.
Filed under: The Queue






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 10)
Darky Dec 28th 2010 11:06AM
Big hint for you hordies, get a goblin friend to buy your vial, and the sands because their 20% discount works on them, I saved myself 5.8k gold :D (now to fork over an additional 13k for true gold =_=).
Rob Dec 28th 2010 11:39AM
Good point, but consider also waiting a month or so for truegold prices to plummet (and ask guildies/really good friends for their CDs). That is if you want low price on the mount.
Bananacup Dec 28th 2010 11:09AM
*facepalm*
Blizzard, please just close the area until it is REALLY fixed. Stop letting one side get all the advantage on a server. Give some unique ways to the shunned faction to catch up. Stop fishing for transfer money.
Darky Dec 28th 2010 11:19AM
Don't close it, just make it multi faction.....somehow, so we can all do the dailies. (maybe let the other faction receive the quests from their respective campsite on the northern island to do the lower island quests) clearly this wouldn't work for the leftovers quest but 5 is better than none.
loop_not_defined Dec 28th 2010 12:28PM
Blizzard is going to be talking about Tol Barad pretty soon here. Said they would have a blog post up about what they're going to do with it sometime in the first week of January.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1670091264?page=7#131
Scooter Dec 28th 2010 1:46PM
I understand people are frustrated over the state of the Zone. Personally, I disagree with all of you. Attacking Tol Borad is indeed challenging but it's not impossible. As with any battleground the fight takes a bit of coordination and planning. Right now all of you are running around hoping to out-zerg a group who is on effectively equal footing. This ends in a round-robin of tower control which ends in the defender's victory. To continue to do this is outright stupid.
If you want to win this thing you need to use all of your classes abilities. Running around going "Blarg I am DPS!?!?@!" Ends in the same crap 99 times out of 100. DPS is the LEAST important attribute in the fight. Use your CC's and healing spells even if your not specced for it. You need people alive and on a point more than anything else.
At the start of Tol Borad, select 5 CC's to ambush the enemy horde as much as possible. Slowing them down or outright preventing 5-10 enemy players from moving has secured a win several times for me on my server.
Scooter Dec 28th 2010 2:05PM
On a more positive note. There is a reasonably effective way to ensure the tides shift from time to time. Just make it so the "in control" portion of the PVP bar grows larger for the enemy every time a faction defends and have it shrink back down (but at 2x the speed) for defenders on each success.
Avan Dec 28th 2010 4:13PM
There is the auto-balance thing. If a faction holds it for too long they become weak and the attackers get an easy win.
Szass Dec 28th 2010 5:49PM
I dislike what Blizzard is implying here.
By upping the Prize for an attacking victory TEN TIMES what it is now, Blizzard is in effect saying...
"Tol Barad is fine. Its the players fault for not being properly motivated to win on offense.
So were going to offer a bribe to you to suck less on offense."
At least it seems that way to me.
Jawbone Dec 29th 2010 1:54AM
GREAT 'FIX' Blizzard - now we have frapping idiots like Rykinmthrfkr* of on Ghostlands honor leeching at the Defender's GY all Tol Barad long and spamming /raid + /1 + /trade afterwards 'educating' Horde-side on how we all get more honor if we just trade wins with the Alliance
This on a server that had a strong Horde-owns-WinterGrasp culture >.<
Blizzard, your 'FIX' is actually making things WORSE.
*reported for inappropriate name beyond his honor leeching
Jawbone Dec 29th 2010 1:59AM
of "Is Pretty Much Awesome" (guild) on Ghostlands (North America)
note to self: '' are reserved
Rob Dec 28th 2010 11:07AM
Seriously? You did a whole column on a hotfix.
Blizzard knows they can't fix the zone with a hotfix, but they also know they have to do something about it. This will at least provide incentive for the Defenders to do a poor job and throw the match (in order to then be an Attacker and get 10x the Honor), and it is an incentive for the Attackers to participate more fully, and in a more organized fashion.
I for one will not queue if we're Defending, and will go out of my way to queue if we are Attacking. The result will be no one defending, and an easy win for the Attackers.
If both sides play by that rule, everyone wins.
Darky Dec 28th 2010 11:10AM
No, matt did a whole column, this is adams PoV.
Darky Dec 28th 2010 11:12AM
Also your plan is flawed, tol barad only allows a 1:1 player ratio, IE if 100000000 horde queue and 10 alliance queue, all 10 alliance are allowed in but only 10 of the horde are allowed in.
Meatwadz Dec 28th 2010 11:13AM
iirc it is a forced 1:1 ratio.
So if there is no incentive to defend, less people can participate in attacking... In its current state, because we have a low Alli pop and I play Horde, I queue within 5 seconds of being able to and am lucky to get into the battle. If there are only 7 or 8 Alli queuing to defend...
Gossamer Dec 28th 2010 11:13AM
Actually, they did part of a column on a hotfix. Probably so they wouldn't have to do a whole column.
Erik Dec 28th 2010 11:14AM
If no one defends then no one wins. In order for the win trading scheme to work, everyone that wants to win must participate in the losses
(cutaia) Dec 28th 2010 12:12PM
"If both sides play by that rule, everyone wins."
Unless by "everybody winning" you mean that they actually had fun playing a game.
Meatwadz Dec 28th 2010 11:08AM
I think that attacking Tol Barad would be much easier if it weren't for the randomly-appointed Raid Leader kicking everyone out of the raid just to be a douche canoe. This happens regularly on Magtheridon - US Horde in both WG and TB. I thought they were going to fix this? I confirmed it was still happening two days ago and it really makes it impossible to coordinate attacks.
Adam Holisky Dec 28th 2010 11:12AM
Douche canoe is the word of the day.
Whenever anyone says it, scream!