A survey of gear levels in current 10- and 25-man Cataclysm raiding
by Matthew Rossi 
Jan 3rd 2011 at 6:00PM
If you've been curious whether or not you're geared enough to start raiding, the answer is "definitely maybe." Let me explain.
The nice people at GuildOx have collected and passed on their information for the average gear level for groups completing 10- and 25-man raids, and they were good enough to share this information with us. There are several interesting things to keep in mind about these numbers.
The nice people at GuildOx have collected and passed on their information for the average gear level for groups completing 10- and 25-man raids, and they were good enough to share this information with us. There are several interesting things to keep in mind about these numbers.
- These numbers are from the last seven days and only for the first time a group beat the encounter. Subsequent kills aren't counted in this data set.
- The average ilevel is higher for almost every single Cataclysm raid fight on 10-man than on 25-man. That is, the fights were first overcome by groups in higher ilevel gear on 10-man than on 25-man. Ascendant Council seems to be the only real exception to this rule.
- The ilevels for the groups defeating this content are well achievable, starting at 337 for Omnotron Defense System and Conclave of Wind on 25-man. This is well within the level of gearing achievable through heroics. Even the 10-man encounters don't require much more, starting around ilevel 341.
- There's a lot more data for heroic 25-man encounters than heroic 10s. Some fights don't seem to have had many or any clears on 10 for this data push.
- Heroic Conclave of Wind had 40 kills on 25s and none on 10s, while Ascendant Council on normal seems to be easier on 10s than 25s for some reason.
| Avg. gear score |
Avg. ilvl |
Avg. ilvl 25 |
Avg. ilvl 10 |
Total guilds |
||
| 1 | Heroic: Ascendant Council | 8,759 | 357 | 357 | 0 | 1 |
| 2 | Heroic: Valiona and Theralion | 8,720 | 356 | 356 | 0 | 1 |
| 3 | Heroic: Magmaw | 8,614 | 351 | 351 | 0 | 4 |
| 4 | Heroic: Atramedes | 8,592 | 352 | 352 | 0 | 10 |
| 5 | Heroic: Maloriak | 8,571 | 352 | 352 | 353 | 23 |
| 6 | Heroic: Chimaeron | 8,509 | 349 | 350 | 345 | 22 |
| 7 | Heroic: Omnotron Defense System | 8,487 | 350 | 350 | 353 | 23 |
| 8 | Heroic: Conclave of Wind | 8,382 | 348 | 348 | 0 | 40 |
| 9 | Heroic: Halfus Wyrmbreaker | 8,130 | 343 | 343 | 346 | 143 |
| 10 | Nefarian | 8,128 | 343 | 341 | 344 | 326 |
| 11 | Cho'gall | 7,963 | 343 | 338 | 343 | 1,147 |
| 12 | Al'Akir | 7,950 | 343 | 341 | 343 | 1,104 |
| 13 | Ascendant Council | 7,863 | 343 | 345 | 343 | 2,087 |
| 14 | Chimaeron | 7,813 | 342 | 339 | 342 | 2,119 |
| 15 | Atramedes | 7,741 | 341 | 340 | 342 | 3,034 |
| 16 | Maloriak | 7,679 | 341 | 339 | 342 | 4,347 |
| 17 | Conclave of Wind | 7,632 | 341 | 337 | 341 | 5,443 |
| 18 | Valiona and Theralion | 7,630 | 341 | 339 | 342 | 5,838 |
| 19 | Halfus Wyrmbreaker | 7,559 | 341 | 340 | 341 | 8,163 |
| 20 | Omnotron Defense System | 7,553 | 341 | 337 | 341 | 8,261 |
| 21 | Magmaw | 7,547 | 340 | 338 | 341 | 8,375 |
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm has destroyed Azeroth as we know it; nothing is the same! In WoW Insider's Guide to Cataclysm, you can find out everything you need to know about WoW's third expansion, from leveling up a new goblin or worgen to breaking news and strategies on endgame play.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, News items, Raiding, Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Rakah Jan 3rd 2011 6:04PM
mostly higher ilevel for 10 man. dunno how significant that is.
JT Jan 3rd 2011 6:39PM
In WotLK, a few fights were considered quite a bit harder in 10 man, Sarth 3D 10, for example. From my own personal experience, I've found that it's easier to "coast" in 25 man but in 10 man when one person screws up, the entire raid suffers much more quickly (example, 1 healer being carried off the platform in LK 10 man versus 1 healer being carried off the platform in LK 25 man.)
Guy Jan 3rd 2011 7:08PM
I think it also has to do with filling the raid. Since there are not as many raid ready people as there will be filling those last couple 25 man spots you may be less picky. Many guild could probably get 10 or close to 10 people, but few could get 25, so you may take a couple people just so you can go.
Eglo Jan 3rd 2011 6:08PM
Ten mans have higher ilvl's because that is where the 'dedicated core' of the guild are learning the fight, waiting for the other 3-4 healers and 10-11 dps to gear up and join them in the 25 man runs
AudreyR Jan 3rd 2011 6:15PM
Add to that the fact that there is generally less room for error in a 10-man than there is for a 25-man and the gear differences becomes more understandable.
Sleutel Jan 3rd 2011 7:45PM
Ayup. Don't have the people on to field a full 25? Too many wipes because the full 25 raid can't focus? Time to break into 10s. At which point you probably (and sensibly) stack one 10 with your best-geared (which usually means most-dedicated) players. They kill the encounter on 10, and then you come back next week, and those players use their experience to help carry through the less geared, less experienced, and perhaps less dedicated other members of the raid group.
Manadar Jan 4th 2011 7:21AM
This is not WotLK. There's a lot of bosses that's harder on 10-man, mostly fights like Halfus hc, Conclave and so on. Using a third tank on Halfus hc removes 1/5 of the DPS roles for example. Needing two DPSers to interrupt the add on Cho'Gall gimps a bigger % of the total DPS.
Don't make it out to sound like 10-man is naturally the easier one.
BigBadGooz Jan 3rd 2011 6:10PM
What drives me insane is that ilevel means jack if you stand in the fire so why would we use it to judge raiding.
Ben Bishop Jan 3rd 2011 6:17PM
Not standing in fire is important yes, but the overall of the mechanics are still the same when it comes to gear. if your in 321 fresh to 85, kicking out 6k dps and eeking thru, you cant raid. period. you will drag on the current group. Your health will dip a lot due to not having the buffer due to aoe abilities, and trash/adds in fights will be alive longer because of you. The iLVL isnt just there for epeen. You literally cant hang if your not geared. part of the game
PvtDeth Jan 3rd 2011 6:17PM
Sigh. This article simply presents data. No ilvl can't tell you who is standing in the fire, but it does give you a general idea of how much damage or healing someone can put out or how much avoidance, mitigation, and health they have. It's simply a tool.
Korey Jan 3rd 2011 6:18PM
Because it does matter to a degree when it comes to things like enrage timers, and mana usage. Nowhere there does it say that the ilev alone is what is making things die. However, it's still early in the expansion; It's a pretty safe assumption that the majority of the people contributing to that data know how to properly itemize their gear, so their average ilev means a little more now than if they had gathered this data two months from now. This is fairly interesting information.
dj.clayden Jan 3rd 2011 6:20PM
This is quite obviously an attempt to evaluate relative difficulty of bosses and raid sizes.
It is also an attempt to give people an idea of what ilvl they need to start raiding (although for this purpose it is of course horrendously flawed, as those that already have the kills will likely be more skilled and thus achieve it in lower ilvl gear than those that haven't yet done it could possibly achieve it in).
Either way, 0/10
P.S.: Sorry for that long sentence, I just read it back to myself and I meandered a bit, but it makes sense. Just.
Chewy&Go Jan 3rd 2011 6:26PM
It's called a gear check, that's all.
AudreyR Jan 3rd 2011 6:26PM
Well, it can be seen as an indication as to where the encounters are tuned. If the average ilvl is too high, the health/damage of the boss may need to be adjusted down.
Kirby Jan 3rd 2011 6:27PM
Yes we get it, ilevel =/= skill
But the simple fact of the matter is that your potential dps/heal/damage mitigation/threat increases as you gain in ilevel.
Since we can't go into each of these raids and figure out the RaidIQ of each raider this is the next best option.
themightysven Jan 3rd 2011 6:30PM
Because it's a (very) rough estimate for how much dps/hps/EH or whatever the groups are doing, so a raid leader can get a rough idea of what they need. No one should judge based on iLevel, but at this point there have got to be very few people that were gifted their gear on carryalongs.
TL:DR version; GearScore snobbery bad, iLevel estimates useful
Hangk Jan 3rd 2011 6:35PM
Since this data comes only from successful kills and not wipes, we can assume that these people didn't stand in the fire much. You do need a certain amount of gear to raid, after all, even if your entire raid always stands in the right place. You will not beat enrage timers if you do not have enough gear.
This information helps groups that may be struggling with these same encounters decide whether they just don't have enough gear or whether they're doing something wrong. Too many people have this attitude that they probably developed during Wrath, that failure in PvE == not enough gear, and the proper answer to any and all challenges is to throw more stats at it until you brute-force your way to victory. This information can potentially let a group know that they do, in fact, have enough gear, and that they need to work on their execution instead.
DoubleCrit Jan 4th 2011 9:43AM
This is why you roll a tanking class and queue up as tank/dps to gear up your main spec of DPS.
Blacksen Jan 3rd 2011 6:46PM
A lot of this data comes establishes a correlation, but not a causation.
As of right now, I think most of the "skilled player" population is still involved in 25man raiding.
GerardthePriest Jan 3rd 2011 6:47PM
Hypothesis 1: Raid bosses are relatively more difficult to complete for 10-man raids than for 25-man raids.
Hypothesis 2: Raid spots are harder to get for a 10-man raid than for a 25-man raid and/or 25 man raids are "filled up" or "topped off" with raiders who are less prepared.
H1 seems to be the working hypothesis to this write-up, but the data - absent more data on number of attempts/wipes - cannot distinguish between the two hypotheses.