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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsA survey of gear levels in current 10- and 25-man Cataclysm raiding
by Matthew Rossi 
Jan 3rd 2011 at 6:00PM
If you've been curious whether or not you're geared enough to start raiding, the answer is "definitely maybe." Let me explain.
The nice people at GuildOx have collected and passed on their information for the average gear level for groups completing 10- and 25-man raids, and they were good enough to share this information with us. There are several interesting things to keep in mind about these numbers.
The nice people at GuildOx have collected and passed on their information for the average gear level for groups completing 10- and 25-man raids, and they were good enough to share this information with us. There are several interesting things to keep in mind about these numbers.
- These numbers are from the last seven days and only for the first time a group beat the encounter. Subsequent kills aren't counted in this data set.
- The average ilevel is higher for almost every single Cataclysm raid fight on 10-man than on 25-man. That is, the fights were first overcome by groups in higher ilevel gear on 10-man than on 25-man. Ascendant Council seems to be the only real exception to this rule.
- The ilevels for the groups defeating this content are well achievable, starting at 337 for Omnotron Defense System and Conclave of Wind on 25-man. This is well within the level of gearing achievable through heroics. Even the 10-man encounters don't require much more, starting around ilevel 341.
- There's a lot more data for heroic 25-man encounters than heroic 10s. Some fights don't seem to have had many or any clears on 10 for this data push.
- Heroic Conclave of Wind had 40 kills on 25s and none on 10s, while Ascendant Council on normal seems to be easier on 10s than 25s for some reason.
| Avg. gear score |
Avg. ilvl |
Avg. ilvl 25 |
Avg. ilvl 10 |
Total guilds |
||
| 1 | Heroic: Ascendant Council | 8,759 | 357 | 357 | 0 | 1 |
| 2 | Heroic: Valiona and Theralion | 8,720 | 356 | 356 | 0 | 1 |
| 3 | Heroic: Magmaw | 8,614 | 351 | 351 | 0 | 4 |
| 4 | Heroic: Atramedes | 8,592 | 352 | 352 | 0 | 10 |
| 5 | Heroic: Maloriak | 8,571 | 352 | 352 | 353 | 23 |
| 6 | Heroic: Chimaeron | 8,509 | 349 | 350 | 345 | 22 |
| 7 | Heroic: Omnotron Defense System | 8,487 | 350 | 350 | 353 | 23 |
| 8 | Heroic: Conclave of Wind | 8,382 | 348 | 348 | 0 | 40 |
| 9 | Heroic: Halfus Wyrmbreaker | 8,130 | 343 | 343 | 346 | 143 |
| 10 | Nefarian | 8,128 | 343 | 341 | 344 | 326 |
| 11 | Cho'gall | 7,963 | 343 | 338 | 343 | 1,147 |
| 12 | Al'Akir | 7,950 | 343 | 341 | 343 | 1,104 |
| 13 | Ascendant Council | 7,863 | 343 | 345 | 343 | 2,087 |
| 14 | Chimaeron | 7,813 | 342 | 339 | 342 | 2,119 |
| 15 | Atramedes | 7,741 | 341 | 340 | 342 | 3,034 |
| 16 | Maloriak | 7,679 | 341 | 339 | 342 | 4,347 |
| 17 | Conclave of Wind | 7,632 | 341 | 337 | 341 | 5,443 |
| 18 | Valiona and Theralion | 7,630 | 341 | 339 | 342 | 5,838 |
| 19 | Halfus Wyrmbreaker | 7,559 | 341 | 340 | 341 | 8,163 |
| 20 | Omnotron Defense System | 7,553 | 341 | 337 | 341 | 8,261 |
| 21 | Magmaw | 7,547 | 340 | 338 | 341 | 8,375 |
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm has destroyed Azeroth as we know it; nothing is the same! In WoW Insider's Guide to Cataclysm, you can find out everything you need to know about WoW's third expansion, from leveling up a new goblin or worgen to breaking news and strategies on endgame play.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, News items, Raiding, Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 3)
DoubleCrit Jan 4th 2011 9:57AM
Golly gosh gee gosh gear is needed for raids. Who would have golly gosh gee gosh thunk it.
Greg Jan 4th 2011 10:51AM
An equally interesting set of data might be a correlated list of average DPS. Gear score is an objective measure of a players gear quality, but does not necessarily translate into real play improvement.
DPS on the other hand is objective, since it is an account of damage done. Much of the debate seems framed around whether or not a player is reaching her potential (you're bad), without really framing the discussion within the objectively determined full potential of a given gear level.
Fyreaxe Jan 4th 2011 11:49AM
there is definatley less room for mistakes in 10 mans. however I don't believe that is the reason for the ilvl results we are seeing.
Common sense suggests that any guild will be able to fill a 10 man raid before a 25, so the first 10 raid ready players will also be the most dedicated and who have min/max'd and crafted their epics and farmed rep and heroics for higher gear.
As the guild gets more players to 85 and they get geared not everyone will be geared as good as those first 10 and therefore, just for the sake of filling up the 25 raid slots the average Ilvl would obviously get diluted and appear lower across the board.
This doesnt indicate which one is harder, it just shows that guilds are willing to take less then ideal geared people so they can get started on 25 mans, because they might not want to wait the extra week or two to get the rest of the raid members better gear.
Argumentativeweasel Jan 4th 2011 12:50PM
I'm sitting here reading everybody's defense of the Ilvl tool. I do agree with you. However, where the hell were all of you when Gearscore was the tool for raiding? Gearscore= Avg ilvl * number of items you know?
Chris Jan 4th 2011 5:20PM
GS, when used properly is a great tool. The problem with GS is not GS, it's 80% of the WoW community that misused it, and started substituting skill for GS by only accepting people with higher and higher GS for the same content because they just wanted a faceroll.
Right not the ilvl tool is great, because there is no such thing as over-geared for a fight in cata and most people barely meat the requirements for heroics. But soon this will change, and the WoW community will screw up ilvl the same way the screwed up GS. It won't be long until the vast majority of WoW players will start booting anyone out of a heroic with less than an average ilvl of 340 then 350 and up and up and up, even through you can finish them at 333. Then gearing up and pugging with a new toon will be a pain again. Already I'm getting the gogogo guys in heroic pugs. I boot them the moment they start that crap (including a healer with 345 ilvl), because you have no business pugging heroics right now if you're impatient.
GS and ilvl actually reminds us there is a more dominant force in the crowd than wisdom, and that's stupidity.
totally Jan 5th 2011 4:55AM
The numbers don't seem to add up.
I've just taken a look at my GS and ilvl. I'm running at 348 according to my character tab.
if i check the gearscore/playerscore addon, it shows me sitting at 7819
which if the table is right, i'm looking at fights where the average ilvl is 348ish, and the average gs is nearer 8400.
or am i missing something in the figures.
redaxe Jan 6th 2011 12:41AM
Gearscore and ILvl don't necessarily follow each other.
ILvl is a straight average of the item levels of the items you have in each slot.
Gearscore weights different slots based on the item budget - for example, it will put more emphasis on the head, chest and leg slot items. It will also take into account the item quality. From a gear stat measure, Gearscore is more accurate.
So, you will usually have a different gear score from one person to the next, even though you may have the same equipped ILvl. If your gearscore is coming out lower then it probably means you have lower quality items in the key slots (chest, legs, head and possibly weapon).
ales_blahynka Jan 6th 2011 2:17AM
LOL - 10's regardless of what the ilevel indicator seems to show are A LOT easier than their 25 man counterparts.
Like someone mentioned, right now your 10 best players (usually best geared also) will go into 10's to learn the fights, then go into 25's with others not so great geared players, artifically dropping the ilevel score of 25's
Realistically, 10's could easily be cleared in much lower ilevels, its just a tale of numbers and averages.
This really indicates nothing, other than that for the 10 man clear everyone that went had full i346 gear, and the 25 a couple of peple had some ilevel 333 pieces. which by the way drops the average on the 25, yet amazing, you could take a full group of ilevle 333 people in a 10 man and wipe the floor with it. But of course that isn't how the numbers are shown. The more people you add to the mix the harder it is going to be get the same average number.
Getting 25 people in full i346 gear is drasticaly different then getting your first 10 into i346.