Ol' Grumpy's guide to player reeducation

Sometimes the problem is you. (Sometimes, it's even me. I know you're shocked.)
If you've been playing WoW for a while, one fact is indisputable. You learned how to play your class or role by playing. It is in groups that we learn our toolkits, how to perform our role properly, and each dungeon or raid we run not only teaches us how to run that dungeon or raid but gives us the context we need to tackle new content down the road. We learn by doing, and moreover, we learn by interacting with our groups, be they guild runs or pickup groups. PUGs can be hard schools, but they're invaluable in jogging you out of your comfort zone and getting you to think about what you do and why.
If you think of your instance runs as where you go to farm a quick batch of justice or valor points, you're part of the problem.
You are there to learn and even to teach.
You are there to work together with four other people you may or may not even know. You are there to share knowledge, to help the group succeed, to learn skills you'll need later, and to help other people learn them. While some people will always have better reflexes than others, the general difficulty of even current heroics is not so great that a group cannot succeed even doing things with a brute force approach, trying to smash down every pull. What group coordination and information sharing can accomplish is to make it all much easier, take less mana on the part of your healer, and train everyone (including you, no matter who you are and what your role is) to do things more efficiently and with less downtime.

Part of the problem
Modern heroics are designed to effectively cause a good group to reeducate its members. When game design changes, it's the players, not the designers, who do the work of teaching each other what to do. If you're not willing to learn (no matter how awesome you think you are) and not willing to teach, then you're not helping the group succeed. That's what it all comes down to.
If you think you're too good to do either one of these things, then don't queue. You're not helping. It doesn't matter how well geared you are, how long you've been playing, or how awesome your numbers are, if you decide to be a drag on the group by not listening to what others share with you or not sharing what you yourself know. If you're going to get impatient, slag everyone off and leave the group in a huff, you just wasted everyone's time, including your own.
Right now, we're all learning. We're all teaching. If you can do either of these, you can get through a PUG. It's that simple.
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 5)
omedon666 Jan 3rd 2011 4:14PM
"If you think of your instance runs as where you go to farm a quick batch of justice or valor points, you're part of the problem."
I'm just quoting this again to help it sink in.
With the onset of cataclysm, and the heroic design, "real content" for real teams starts at 5 people. These are my guild's raids, and we love them and respect them as such. If we PUG you along as a DPS, we will be friendly, we will be kind, but we will not be in a hurry, because we are still learning, and have a healthy sense of fear, awe and respect for this new shiny content. We have the majority, so please play along, or get back into queue.
A_V Jan 3rd 2011 11:28PM
And that is exactly the type of guild I hope one day to find. Whomever you all are, your attitudes rock.
BethioMoo Jan 4th 2011 9:34PM
I would love to be in a run with your guild group! Most times when I enter a dungeon and see that 3 or 4 people out of 5 are in the same guild, I know I'm going to get kicked. They don't talk to me. They talk in vent or guild chat. Then kick me without saying why. One time, it was even before the first pull! Another time, my friend got kicked because the tank wanted some dps gear and didn't want to change the paladin dps rolling against him for it.
Some times I think guilds just kick people for fun. "Haha, another dps has to wait another 40 minutes to get into another group that they're just going to get kicked from and have to wait ANOTHER 40 minutes. We rock!"
omedon666 Jan 4th 2011 9:38PM
That's just lame, yo, I'm sorry your experiences are so harsh, BethioMoo. The first thing we do when we do a 4/5 run is let them know we're all in vent, so don't mind if we're kinda quiet. If the person is cool, we invite them in.
Oh, A_V, I'm not trying to headhunt you or anything, but if you're interested in knowing more about my guild, we can be found at hoss.guildomatic.com. :)
happytales Jan 6th 2011 3:36PM
I second Bethiomoo
Tewaz Jan 3rd 2011 4:15PM
Well spoken lord of warr
Phil Jan 3rd 2011 4:16PM
I totally expected the first line to be "Back in my day!"
Gossamer Jan 3rd 2011 4:16PM
There's a lot of attitude in Heroics anymore, and it's pretty easy to get caught up in the bad feelings. I've actually had fewer problems in pugs where none of the members knew each other at all, and more problems when two or more of the members are in the same guild or social circle. People seem more inclined to listen to alternate views and tips when they don't know anyone, but when they have a friend to back up their point things can get nasty.
I think everyone should just keep in mind that we all have the same goal, getting to the end of the instance, and the better everyone gets along the faster this will get done. Sometimes its faster to just do it the group's way, even if you would differently.
Snuzzle Jan 3rd 2011 5:12PM
I've actually found that people tend to be a lot more patient and considerate in heroics than in normals. I've had several very smooth heroic runs, even one where we didn't get past the first boss because the healer left with a smile, saying he didn't think we had the dps, but great attempts. He was probably right, 5k isn't really a great number for heroics.
Whereas in normals, I've been screamed at, told GOGOGO more times than I can count, told "CC is for noobs" as they rush up and break my Sleep, and kicked for not being able to keep the entire group up when two Earthshapers were allowed to transform because, of course, interrupting is probably for noobs, too.
People don't treat normals seriously, so they think they can be as stupid and abusive in them as they were in Wrath dungeons. Heroics, however, are still dangerous and somewhat unknown, so people seem more willing to cooperate and stick it out.
Of course, you get your fair share of "We wiped twice, these guys are noobs," group-droppers, but overall I've found heroics far more tolerable to PUG than normals, surprisingly.
Possum Jan 3rd 2011 5:40PM
I've noticed no difference. I have to say they've seemed very much the same to me (not in terms of difficulty but the people) Sometimes the people are nice, sometimes they talk tactics and sometimes people are rude and don't, or a combination of the above. I have to say though that both are a huge improvement on Wrath dungeons and heroics where the chance of people talking was probably 1/10.
NecDW4 Jan 3rd 2011 6:28PM
O have to agree with Snuzzle. Even on the most wipe-filled pug/LFD runs, everyone pretty much has a very casual attitude towards wipes. Hell, the answer to "What does this boss do different in heroic" is more often than not "We'll find out when it kills us" and everyone has fun with that attitude.
We've had maybe 1 person ragequit on a run since cata launched, and that was a VERY bad DK tank. We all figured he was just a DPS who queued as a tank for the instant run and was a bit disappointed when he couldn't just "Wrath" his way through it.
Otherwise Cata seems to have led to one of the all time highs in the community's level of respect all around. DPS offer to CC without prompting, will pay attention to things that suddenly make a beeline to the healer and try to head them off, and generally attempt to play more intelligently than ever before, even offering alternative pull strategies when things start going rough.
Hulkin Jan 3rd 2011 4:20PM
Well said! As both a Paladin and Druid tank, I can't tell you the amount of times I've had someone yell GO GO GO! when i'm marking and figuring out CC, only to have that same person wipe the group due to there inability to follow directions.
Gossamer Jan 3rd 2011 4:27PM
Unfortunately this problem isn't limited to non-tanks. I tried to explain to a Paladin tank the other day that my trap has an arming time, and pulls would be less messy if he marked and let me trap first. I am capable of pulling a mob to a trap if necessary, but with the trap launcher the mob stays out of the group and the tank put his consecrate down without worrying about breaking CC . He said he didn't want to be slowed down by bads and I got booted for my trouble.
Aruhgulah Jan 3rd 2011 4:40PM
When someone yells GO GO GO at ME, I immediately come back with "Do not scream at me. I will NOT GO GO GO. I go at my speed and the healers. If that's too slow for you, please drop group."
Usually shuts them up.
Snuzzle Jan 3rd 2011 5:04PM
The biggest thing I learned in PUGs is to be specific. Assume nothing. The other night I was in a half PUG (I had a healer who is a good friend and one of his guild warlocks) with a random DK and ele shammy.
We were in H Throne of the Tides and on the first boss I gave the fateful instructions: "Burn the melee adds and cc the casters." The warlock offered to CC the left add, the shaman said he'd take the right. Okay.
Boss comes out, we're avoiding the floor-death, and since I had never tanked this boss before I was tanking her in the middle. Apparently, the melee add comes out closer to the back of the room, so the DK was way closer to her. He took to heart the words "burn" and immediately started in on the add, getting two-shot in the process. We then wiped due to not having the DPS to burn the adds before she came back up.
What I learned? Be specific. I quickly added to my instructions that "When I say burn, 'let the bear hit it first' is implied." But nothing is really implied. If you mean you'll be tanking something but they need to DPS it down quickly, say so. Especially because on that last boss in the dungeon, I would not be tanking the murlocs or channelers, but they still needed to be burned down hard.
You cannot be specific enough, because no one knows each others' playstyles very well, you have to kind of learn on the fly that the DK will be helpful and death grip casters or that the ele shaman does not have a clue what a LOS pull is.
Sonalita Jan 4th 2011 6:15AM
@gossamer
THIS x10000
Tanks, for the love of god, PLEASE learn this one thing: Hunter traps have an arming time. If it's a launched trap, it has a flight time. If you want me to thow a trap onto a mob, then yoiu have to learn to let the hunter pull, otherwise the mob won't get trapped, even some castor mobs move a little when the tank throws something at another mob in the pack.
I've been kicked so many times from groups because either I'm told off for starting the pull with a trap or worse, failed to trap a mob after the tank pulled as I was launching. This is not teh hunter's fault, it's the tanks. Learn This Well tanks...
BethioMoo Jan 4th 2011 9:48PM
I agree with Snuzzle, you can NOT assume a THING! Even in normals! I was in a Lost City PUG and the tank was just pulling without saying anything or asking anything. Up until the point when we wiped on High Prophet Barim, I thought everyone knew what was going on because no one seemed to be doing anything wrong and no one asked anything. Afterward, the healer was complaining that this hunter was standing in stuff too long. He said "I don't know the fight :( sorry." Which is when I realized that he hadn't been there before and he hadn't needed to really know much about anything on the first couple bosses. So I told him to not be ashamed and that he should probably speak up when he has a question. I think people asking questions and learning the fight is definitely better than wiping on even a normal boss...
Vyle Jan 3rd 2011 4:23PM
Back in my day, we didn't have no rocks. We had to go down to the creek and wash our clothes by beating them with our heads.
Szass Jan 3rd 2011 4:26PM
A little harsh.
Sometimes the 4 random 10 year olds that got into your random group are beyond redemption.
People have had 85 levels to learn how to play their class, I'm not joining a group to teach them how to play. I'm joining to complete the encounter.
If they can't get their stuff straight, I'll re-que.
omedon666 Jan 3rd 2011 4:40PM
"People have had 85 levels to learn how to play their class when by themselves"
Fixed that for you.
You are part of the problem, I'm afraid.