Ol' Grumpy's guide to player reeducation

Sometimes the problem is you. (Sometimes, it's even me. I know you're shocked.)
If you've been playing WoW for a while, one fact is indisputable. You learned how to play your class or role by playing. It is in groups that we learn our toolkits, how to perform our role properly, and each dungeon or raid we run not only teaches us how to run that dungeon or raid but gives us the context we need to tackle new content down the road. We learn by doing, and moreover, we learn by interacting with our groups, be they guild runs or pickup groups. PUGs can be hard schools, but they're invaluable in jogging you out of your comfort zone and getting you to think about what you do and why.
If you think of your instance runs as where you go to farm a quick batch of justice or valor points, you're part of the problem.
You are there to learn and even to teach.
You are there to work together with four other people you may or may not even know. You are there to share knowledge, to help the group succeed, to learn skills you'll need later, and to help other people learn them. While some people will always have better reflexes than others, the general difficulty of even current heroics is not so great that a group cannot succeed even doing things with a brute force approach, trying to smash down every pull. What group coordination and information sharing can accomplish is to make it all much easier, take less mana on the part of your healer, and train everyone (including you, no matter who you are and what your role is) to do things more efficiently and with less downtime.

Part of the problem
Modern heroics are designed to effectively cause a good group to reeducate its members. When game design changes, it's the players, not the designers, who do the work of teaching each other what to do. If you're not willing to learn (no matter how awesome you think you are) and not willing to teach, then you're not helping the group succeed. That's what it all comes down to.
If you think you're too good to do either one of these things, then don't queue. You're not helping. It doesn't matter how well geared you are, how long you've been playing, or how awesome your numbers are, if you decide to be a drag on the group by not listening to what others share with you or not sharing what you yourself know. If you're going to get impatient, slag everyone off and leave the group in a huff, you just wasted everyone's time, including your own.
Right now, we're all learning. We're all teaching. If you can do either of these, you can get through a PUG. It's that simple.
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 5)
Kel Jan 3rd 2011 4:50PM
Or:
People had 80 levels to learn how to play their class before Cata, which is totally different from how they should be playing their classes now.
All that important stuff like CC and marking and communication? Oddly wasn't a big deal during Wrath. That's 2 years of experience and "learning to play our classes" that we have to unlearn now. So, yeah... you are definitely part of the problem.
Moeru Jan 3rd 2011 5:10PM
While I agree with the comments against this one, I still feel people should have learned a bit more than two abilities spam by the time they're 85. However, dissing them as being bad as a result isn't the solution. The solution is to help them now, or even earlier when you're leveling alts. I see a big difference in tanks who do BRC/TotT and later dungeons in terms of patience and pulling capacity. While the hardest teacher is always failure, some people will get the picture if one person in every group suggests/tells them (depending on how you respond to people) to play differently. Sometimes all I need to do is point out why we wiped and people learn from that.
Szass Jan 3rd 2011 5:12PM
Nah screw that.
Its not my fault if you played by yourself for 85 levels and don't know what to do in a group.
Its not my fault if all you learned in Wrath was to push your AOE button.
Its not my fault if you stop what you doing and rush over to attack the vicious sheep that just appeared.
Its not my fault if you are a keyboard turning mouth breather that clicks abilities.
I know how to play and won't put up with it as a tank, healer or DPS.
Back in my day they had a saying ... L2PLAY.
I had to learn the hard way, in BC heroics and old world dungeons and raids.
Its not my fault Wrath taught you all to be bads.
Learn to play your class and quit wasting my time.
Downrate me all you want I'M NOT running a wow happyland daycare center to train bads in my free time.
LEARN TO PLAY YOUR CLASS ON YOUR OWN TIME.
jq71586 Jan 3rd 2011 5:18PM
Cool story, bro.
brammage Jan 3rd 2011 6:09PM
Szass, please let us know your server and character name. Then we can be sure to avoid you and vice versa.
mj Jan 3rd 2011 7:00PM
The dungeon finder system is not restricted to players above some threshold of skill. It's a random sample from the WoW population, which makes it a given that you will meet players of all kinds of backgrounds. If you can't respect that—if you are unwilling to share your expertise—then it is your fault, not theirs.
After all, the LFD tool never took away the old way of actually putting together your own group. When runs went well, party members in fact added one another to their friends list (gasp!). My advice is, if you want speed runs in order to get gear and jp's, then run with your guildies and people you know.
isqueak Jan 3rd 2011 7:03PM
Szass, you can be as self-righteous as you want to be but you're STILL part of the problem. I'd write out a lengthy, well-thought explanation as to why... but you'd ignore it or disagree, so I won't bother.
You're the worst kind of player there is: a player unwilling to help others "L2PLAY."
Possum Jan 4th 2011 2:17AM
You sound like the guy who ragequit our heroic sfk the other day because half the people were new to the encounters. FYI we ended up finishing the dungeon within 15 mins when the new guy came, I hope you enjoy your many dungeon deserter debuffs.
Andy O. Jan 3rd 2011 4:36PM
Thank you, someone finally said it, if you don't want to tolerate my "have no time to play, but I want to get better and raid" tookus, then don't get in my PUG Queue. Please.
Kel Jan 3rd 2011 4:40PM
THANK YOU!
The other day, I spent 3 hours working through some hard encounters with a good but not over-geared group, one of the most rewarding experiences I've had. Then a new healer came along who was already wearing raiding gear, spent 30 minutes with the group, bullying us all into submission, then got me kicked for not doing enough dps. I was so upset. Not because I'd been kicked, but because she thought she was more important to the group than the 3 hours that I had already spent with them, simply because she was a 733t raider. UGH.
scherbaddie Jan 3rd 2011 7:49PM
It takes 3 people to kick, so at least half that group who you spent 3 hours with were also a little trigger happy with the votekick button. Too many people just click yes to every kick request that comes up.
Vidyala Jan 3rd 2011 4:54PM
Very well-said. I had to take a hard look at my own behaviour a few months ago when I was getting frustrated by pugs in heroic runs - and I think the problem was me then, too. I sometimes think it would help if people experienced a pug from all sides - as the beleaguered tank or the low-on-mana healer, or playing a DPS class they don't know well and being kicked for not being good enough. Would they be more considerate even when playing their "main" character?
It's this mindset that I was thinking of when I started a series of posts about heroics tips for mages (http://bit.ly/hpTbzW). It's not, "Hey, pull aggro from the tank, tick him/her off and then complain and drop group!" It's "Spellsteal this, it will make your healer's life easier," or "Your CC will be needed for this pull." If we all focused a bit more on what we could do to help the group succeed, I think the pugs would be much smoother.
jfofla Jan 3rd 2011 4:58PM
When I saw the title was "Old Grumpy" in my Mobile version, I knew without clicking Rossi was the author.
If anybody in a group I am healing says "Go Go Go" I say, "This is not Wrath kid, calm the hell down and do your job"
Spriestess Jan 3rd 2011 4:59PM
I wish this was required reading for anyone logging into WoW.
Moeru Jan 3rd 2011 5:12PM
Blizzard has already infused some of the basic courtesy 'required' for WoW inside it's tutorial, and it's been on the official site for years. But yes, I agree, there needs to be more towards this. I heard of a quest on Horde side (Wrath or Cata, I can't remember) that gave you a NPC to work with that emulated a bad player. Same goes for now in Cata on Alliance side, where a druid follows you around but can't seem to do anything right.
If nothing else Blizzard is trying to tell us to sympathize and get ready for bad players, while also letting the 'bad' players know how it feels when someone doesn't act to their standards.
JoJa Jan 3rd 2011 5:07PM
Rossi: Here's 5 copper for the clever use of chapeau in a post without a reference to Scarlet Monastery. Well played old bean.
Oh, and "yeah and stuff!" on rest of article.
Ebrion Jan 3rd 2011 5:08PM
If people would remeber thats its about killing the boss, not stroking your epeen with a dps meter, it would help things. I know I can put up big numbers on my Unholy DK, but I need to be aware of whats cc'd and how much threat i am pulling from the tanks.
Also, ask about fights and stuff if you are new to the content. I would rather take a minute to explain the fight and abilities before hand than doit after two wipes.
Moeru Jan 3rd 2011 5:18PM
This is a nice article, and more aimed towards people who'd bash bad players than the players who aren't playing well themselves. We're all learning, and teaching, all the time in WoW, and this brings it to light.
I think the biggest problem right now with the dungeons is lack of accountability. When it was server specific...if you pissed off the top raiding guild's MT, you couldn't do anything after that. But now there's not incentive to stay in the group if it's bad. Leave, 2 seconds later a replacement. I realized this when I wondered when it became that random groups tried to trip each other up rather than help :/.
The big problem with bad players is tunnel vision. Most people don't realize that other people have goals and ideals for their playtime, as diverse and as complex as their own. Or they don't care. There needs to be a system in place that rewards cooperative play, and Blizz is moving towards that, and they did it at the right time also. Wrath pugs were reaching their peak around ICC, so this helps a lot.
To quote the Raiding Procedures I wrote for our guild website:
"[Being polite] is something people usually learn in the early levels, but it always seems to come back and bite us. You are *not* playing alone. There are people behind those characters, each one with skills, abilities and goals as varied as yours. Learn to acknowledge this and think accordingly. Maybe you think going AFK for ten minutes isn't a big deal. But you're making other people wait because of it. If you know you'll be gone long or suspect it, don't make people wait just because you want to finish a run or raid. Tell them the time you'd be gone, and if they mind waiting. And don't complain if you're booted suddenly because of it. It may or may not be your fault, but that doesn't matter."
xenothaulus Jan 3rd 2011 5:18PM
Unless this has something to do with jumper cables (real ones) and hot irons, I'm not interested.
Otoah Jan 3rd 2011 5:24PM
Something tells me the people who need to read this the most, aren't regular readers of WoW Insider....