Scattered Shots: Survival and haste for hunters

Today, we're going to talk about one of the most difficult stats to pin down with the needles of math: haste. Nowadays, haste does all sorts of different little things for hunters, and even in our best mathematical models, its behavior is tricksy and elusive, making big leaps up and down the stat weighting seemingly on a whim. Haste is like wizards or cats: subtle, and quick to anger.
Are there really all kinds of haste plateaus, where just adding 2 haste increases your DPS by large amounts? But then adding another 2 haste actually drops your DPS? Well, no, there aren't. When you see that kind of behavior on the spreadsheets, it's an artifact of the modeling process and not something that you'll actually see in game.
Join me after the cut for a rundown of what haste is actually doing for you and why significant haste plateaus aren't currently attainable. Since survival is currently so far ahead of the other specs that it can actually see its backside (and a fine view that is), we'll talk about haste specifically in the scope of the SV spec.
What haste does
Haste is like some kind of mad gnomish engineer, tinkering with a zillion things at once but doing it in a very small way. Here's what haste does:
- increases your rate of Auto Shot fire
- decreases the cast time of your Steady Shot or Cobra Shot (and Aimed Shot too, technically)
- increases your base focus regen
- increases your pet's attack speed
- increases your pet's base focus regen
The reasons that haste isn't as good as it could be are many. Any time we're moving, we lose our Auto Shots and all of haste's benefit to our Auto Shot (and stutter stepping is harder than ever); our base focus regen is so low -- around 4 focus per second -- that the impact of a few hundred haste is virtually undetectable; and finally, our signature shots are so awesome that we have only a small window of time between signature shots for other shots, and it's essentially impossible right now to get enough haste to increase the number of shots we can fire between signature shots.
The SV rotation and plateaus
There was a lot of theory when we first heard about our new systems that with certain magical amounts of haste, we'd hit awesome plateaus at which the extra haste would let us change our rotations. In practice, however, there is only one attainable haste plateau.
Survival has the totally awesome Explosive Shot. This shot rocks. We want to hit it every single cooldown, because pressing our Explosive Shot button will get us more DPS than any other button we have. We want to be sure we always have enough focus for it, and we do not want to delay pushing that button if we can help it.
Explosive Shot has a 6-second cooldown, and when we fire it, the shot triggers our 1-second global cooldown. This means that we have 5 seconds to fill with other shots in between Explosive Shots. Normally, this means we'll fire three Cobra Shots, but on occasion, it will be two cobra and a Black Arrow, and even more seldom, it will be two cobra and an Arcane Shot. But the vast majority of the time, we're firing three cobra shots.
Cobra Shot has a base cast time of 2 seconds. Survival hunters will always have the 10% attack speed buff from Hunting Party and another 3% attack speed increase from the Pathing talent. This means that the base cast time of Cobra Shot before haste is 1.765 seconds. Firing three in a row, as we normally do, takes us 5.295 seconds in a best-case scenario -- but we only have 5 seconds to work with! That means that we're actually pushing our Explosive Shot back a little bit with every rotation.
So the first plateau that SV can reach is getting Cobra Shot cast time down to 1.66 seconds, so that we can actually fire our Explosive Shot on cooldown. To do that, we need just 6.325% haste from our gear -- something that is so easy we'll probably beat that without even trying. But if you're below that, it's definitely worth reforging into some haste to hit that plateau.
The other SV haste plateaus
But now what happens with our haste beyond that 6.325%? Let's say we're stacking haste and we get up to 18% haste. Now our Cobra Shot cast time is 1.495 seconds (we still have the 10% buff and 3% from Pathing). Firing three Cobra Shots now takes us 4.485 seconds. We have an extra half of a second ... but there's really nothing we can do in that time. If we try to fit any other shot in there, we'll be pushing back our big, damage-dealing Explosive Shot.
There are two other theoretical SV haste plateaus beyond the 6.325% that we basically get by default.
The first enables us to cast four Cobra Shots in between each Explosive Shot. To do that, we'd need to bring our Cobra Shot cast time down to 1.25 seconds, which would take a whopping 41.2% haste -- something we're not able to attain outside of a Rapid Fire or Ancient Hysteria cooldown.
The other would be to reach the point where we can cast three Cobra Shots and one instant shot in between Explosive Shots. Since the instant shot would only have the 1-second global cooldown, this gives us a bit more room. In this instance, we need our Cobra Shot to have a 1.33-second cast time. Alas, this still requires 32.4% haste from gear ... something that is still not attainable.
It's worth noting here that one way to bridge part of this haste gap is to go for the Improved Steady Shot talent and use two Steady Shots and one Cobra Shot in each rotation to maintain the buff. This is a bad idea. Steady Shot does significantly less damage than Cobra Shot (since it's mitigated by armor and Cobra Shot is not), on top of the fact that the SV mastery boosts Cobra Shot damage but not Steady Shot.
What it means
SV gains the largest benefit from haste going from 0% up to 6.325% -- during that period, haste is actually enabling SV to cast Explosive Shot a tiny bit more rapidly. After 6.325% haste, the reduction in Cobra Shot cast time doesn't give you any practical DPS gain. You're still increasing your rate of Auto Shot fire and your focus regen, and your pet still benefits; haste is still helping you, but it's no longer affecting your rotation.
The SV rotation only actually changes with extremely high levels of haste -- a minimum of 32.4%, and right now there's no practical way to make this happen. During Rapid Fire or Ancient Hysteria, we'll see our rotations change so that we can fire four shots in between Explosive Shots, but other than that, it's just the three.
Why haste may get better and better
But who knows what will happen with new tiers of raid content? It's entirely possible that haste will get better and better each tier, until it's the best secondary hunter stat.
We've been told that the combat rating of things like hit and crit will change with new tiers of raid content. In other words, it will take more crit rating to get 1% crit in the next tier of content than it does now. This kind of "crit suppression" is already on raid bosses, by the way -- but now it will scale with each tier of content and affect hit as well. But so far, this is something akin to a buff on the boss itself -- not something on you. It's entirely possible that haste will not be affected by this scaling. Combine that with the possibility that our itemization goes up in decent-sized jumps -- possibly making one of those big haste plateaus attainable with a bunch of work -- and it's possible that we'll close out Cataclysm with haste as the best secondary hunter stat and crit as the worst!
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Hulder Jan 6th 2011 8:11AM
I know I'm beginning to sound like a broken record but: Thanks for once again explaining a slightly confusing stat/mechanic in a way that makes sense even to people who don't have a degree in advanced mathematics :-)
Elleyna Jan 6th 2011 9:29AM
Agreed. They claimed to be taking out stats that might become confusing (like ArP) but at the same time they make haste more complicated than ever and add in mastery which is harder to evaluate than ArP was. Luckily those 2 stats are our least important ones so it's not that big of a deal.
Sterb Jan 6th 2011 9:53AM
And by "degree in advanced mathematics", you mean "understands basic algebra"?
Adrammelech Jan 6th 2011 8:21AM
The other slightly, very slightly, useful thing about getting haste over that first plateau of 6.325% is input lag. If you play like I do with the new custom lag tolerance setting at 0ms (since I want to be able to react at a moment's notice and not be stuck with a spell queue) then having an extra few ms of buffer space between your cobra shots helps to make sure you get your Explosive shot off on exactly every cooldown.
Amenman Jan 6th 2011 8:29AM
Thanks for showing me this. A Druid in my guild(hunter main in Wrath) was wondering when I was putting a haste cog in my eng helm. Now he will read this and go, OOOOOOHHHH.
Great post Frost!
krixoic Jan 6th 2011 8:36AM
erm, as the dps increase after the 6,325 % is kinda small :P could it maybe be better to use mastery after that? as we "know" that it increases our dps by a small amount per % ?
or am i still confused about how haste works and that it still is better than mastery after 6,325 % ?^^,
rokkitan Jan 6th 2011 8:45AM
I don't think the rating needed for each point of hit or crit will change with later tiers, but rather we'll need more hit to be hit capped. And we'll get reduced crit chance, more than the 4.8%? we're currently suffering against bosses. So the relative value or hit and crit rating will not change much against haste rating.
angelodellisanti1 Jan 6th 2011 8:52AM
Great post.
Let me ask the obvious question...
If we are above the 6.325% mark for haste, which of the following should we do?
A) Leave it alone; the benefit from the sum of all the haste-enhancing attacks we have is greater than reforging into something else.
B) Reforge it; once you're above 6.235% haste is more-or-less worthless (kind of like the hit-cap, but not really) and you'd do better to reforge mastery or some other useful stat.
Thanks again.
mannlock Jan 6th 2011 9:28AM
I have reforged it into Crit and it seems to be working very well.
jim.chorn Jan 6th 2011 10:01PM
This is a very good explanation why my rotations are not working out for me. I want to use the Kill Command, Arcane Shot, Black Arrow, Serpent Sting as well as my Explosive Shot but if I'm concentrating only on DPS, then a standard 3 Cobra's and an Explosive Shot is a better way to go, even if it feels clunky and slow. My current 3/7/31 spec seems to be ok but too concentrated on focus regeneration (BM 3 points in One with Nature, MM 7 points in Go for the Throat, Efficiency and it appears I'm wasting 2 points in Improved Steady Shot) so I'll respec again to see if that makes a difference. Then I'll remove steady shot from my rotation all together and see what happens. Since I've reforged as much haste as I can, I'll have to back off those changes and concentrate on Crit and Mastery stats (10% haste, 15% crit, 12% mastery currently). Although my gear average is only 341, that will get better once I run more heriocs and get better gear through rep gains.
But all of this bothers me because of my alt BM spec is so dramatically focus efficient. In BM I'll mostly fire off my Stings and then spam Arcane Shot until my focus is below 20. Casting Fevor in emergencies only, I'll use a couple of Cobra shots or Steady shots to get my focus up and then go back to spamming Arcane shot. This gives me a faster feel to the shot rotation and I'm thinking only about what shot to put up next or if it's time to launch a trap (during low focus times I'll sometimes do this as well).
When in my SV primary spec, it really is too easy to run out of focus. Unlike BM, we don't have a spell like Fevor that can be life saving at times. And when low on focus, waiting 2-4 seconds for Cobra Shot to increase focus feels like I'm waiting for lava to flow out of my weapons. At first, I thought it was because I was low on haste but with your insights into haste benefits (or lack there of) I'm having to rethink everything. Given the arsenal of shots SV hunters have, it amazes me that we can't be using most of them more often mainly due to focus regeneration.
Michael White Jan 7th 2011 2:09PM
You should move those points from imp steady into Sic 'em and 2 points from One with Nature into Careful Aim ending up with a 1/9/31 spec. I very rarely use Arcane Shot and Kill Command even less (actually I'm struggling to find I time when I've used it in a Cata raid). I'm using pvp gloves to reduce the CD of Black Arrow by 4 seconds so all of my focus goes towards Explosive Shot, refreshing Black Arrow, the occasional Trap Launcher, and Arcane Shot in between the 2nd and 3rd Explosives from a Lock and Load proc. With my Cobra Shots casting at 1.65s this system feels very smooth to me and I've only noticed a delay in casting Explosive Shot when I've poorly positioned myself and been unable to get in that 3rd Cobra.
Zyrinx Jan 6th 2011 9:26AM
What is the Haste Rating # for the magic 6.325%?
I just checked and I'm only sitting at 6.08% / 778 rating; I'd be nice to know exactly how much I need to reforge into.
This was a great article.
Also, @ angelodellisanti1... I would think Crit is your best bet there as it seems to be the best secondary stat.
angelodellisanti1 Jan 6th 2011 9:30AM
Zyrinx,
Thanks. Yes, I am aware of this. I am talking about many of our items that already have Crit on them, so I cannot reforge into Crit.
I am currently over 1% higher than the 6.325% that's necessary for our rotation, so the question is (aside from Crit, which is the obvious choice), is it better to reforge into Mastery or Expertise or something like that until I bring my haste down to just above the 6.325% that's necessary.
Thanks for your comment.
Lohkie Jan 6th 2011 9:44AM
@angelodellisanti1
my personal choice would be hit till cap, then mastery. may as well get that little extra boost from all that magical dmg us non-mana using hunters are sending out there =D
mannlock Jan 6th 2011 9:44AM
Yes.. then Reforging into Mastery is the way to go
JKWood Jan 6th 2011 2:08PM
128.125 haste rating per haste%, so you're looking at 810 or 811 haste rating.
Frostheim Jan 6th 2011 8:29PM
If you can, you want to reforge into crit (once you're at the hit cap). Crit is far better than haste or mastery for SV.
Jiminimonk Jan 10th 2011 5:10AM
@angelodellisanti1 - Expertise is a melee stat, hunters should never waste a single point on that stat.
tamadams23 Jan 6th 2011 9:31AM
I would say for now put it into crit if you can over mastery, because crit rocks!
*Disclaimer*
**Based purely on the fact that I love big crits and no theorycrafting whatsoever**
Saeadame Jan 6th 2011 10:01AM
Ugh haste is so confusing... The whole how it affects HoTs/DoTs thing just makes my head spin 'cause I have no idea how it actually works.