The Daily Quest: Uldum and other uproar
by Anne Stickney 
Jan 7th 2011 at 9:00AM
WoW Insider's on a Daily Quest to bring you interesting, informative and entertaining WoW-related links from around the blogosphere.
I have made no bones about my love for the tol'vir (or as I like to call them, the kitty cat people), although I have mentioned once or twice to my friends that I'd like to see more out of them. Uldum seems to be focused on other subjects, however, and it's those other subjects that have people debating. But then World of Warcraft has no shortage of those types of topics, does it? Let's take a look at some blogs that discuss various hot-button issues:
- Welcome to Spinksville doesn't like Uldum and doesn't quite know why.
- Murloc Parliament doesn't like Uldum, knows why, and would like the history lesson kept away from the internet dragons.
- Foofy's CupCake Factory discusses the 10-man vs. 25-man debate.
- World of Warcraft Philosophized takes up the age-old Horde vs. Alliance debate and wonders if the other faction is supposed to be a friend, or an enemy.
Is there a story out there we ought to link or a blog we should be following? Just leave us a comment, and you may see it here tomorrow! Be sure to check out our WoW Resources Guide for more WoW-related sites. Filed under: The Daily Quest
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
jealouspirate Jan 7th 2011 9:17AM
I have to agree with Spinks and Murloc Parliment here, the whole Harrison Jones line in Uldum really soured Uldum for me. Not that I'm too uptight to stomach a Nazi parody, it's just lazy (though it is also kind of in bad taste).
I'm sorry, but playing as Indie's sidekick through half an entire zone didn't make me feel like a hero, it's lazy storytelling, and it's a lot of wasted potential for actual interesting Uldum plots. I completed the zone for the sake of the Cataclysm Loremaster achievement, but I was bored of Uldum long before I left it.
tubby Jan 7th 2011 9:28AM
The progression from poop quests to torture quests to nazi quests seems to be some kind of bizarre dare. It makes me wonder what's next in line. And I'm somewhat sad to learn that you spend a great deal of your time in such a lovely zone being stooge to a pop culture reference.
thawedtheorc Jan 7th 2011 9:30AM
I never thought of that, but they/you are right. I enjoyed Uldum, but was surprised that so much of it was devoted to reoccurring Indiana Jones joke. I found myself thinking that it was going to end and when it did, there were no more quests.
Still, I think there will be a lot more potential for the zone. The instances are fun.
Slaign Jan 7th 2011 9:49AM
I have to strongly disagree about the "Schnotzzi" thing being offensive. I can't speak from a position of being strongly effected by the issue, but to me, it's not about the issue at all. Personally I can take or leave the whole Harrison Jones thing. I was never a big Indy fan, and I find riding backseat to a blundering fool who just happens to be a badass because Blizz made him that way a bit annoying. Still, the whole idea of being upset by a culture reference (We don't need to call it Pop Culture, it's just culture in this case) in a game is ever so more annoying to me.
The way I see it is this. The seriousness of an issue is directly parallel to the seriousness of it's context. As a rule, things brought up in this game are brought up in a humorous way. Nazis discussed in a history classroom is a sobering thing. Nazis discussed in a silly cartoonish game is not.
As a human being, it is necessary that you be able to understand that horrible things happen, and be able to talk about those horrible things without going into shock. It's a part of healing. Being able to look back and make jokes about Hitler isn't about forgetting the horrible things he did or the lives he ruined and destroyed. It's about being able to move on and enjoy ourselves despite him. It's about showing that we won't allow our spirits to be drowned in grief. It is, quite literally, about having the last laugh.
It's also important to analyze just how the game discusses the subject. What is the game making light of? Is there a part of the game referencing death squads, internment, racial oppression, or mass murder? As I remember, no. The things they make fun of are all either simple puns (Fashionism), true pop culture (MASH, Indy, and Great Escape) references, or things like the over emphasized silly (to many Americans) German accent.
At the end of the day, you need to look hard at what you're upset about and ask yourself if it's really worth it. Is Blizzard trying to come across with some sort of message here? Are they making any real comments on the actual event? Or is it just a silly joke?
You don't have to find every joke funny, but before you find a joke offensive, think hard about the intentions behind it. If it was really just going for a good giggle without intending to hurt anyone's feelings, it's probably OK just to not laugh and move on. Save your outrage for when someone's actually trying to make an offensive point.
Nina Katarina Jan 7th 2011 10:10AM
@Slaign - I think you are undermining your argument when you say that these references are never offensive. People have a right to be offended by things that affect them personally. Are you German? Do you have any close relatives who were killed in the Holocaust? It's not just 15-year-old Americans who play this game. I don't fall into either of those categories, but I could understand if someone who did found these parts of the game difficult to handle.
Denying people the right to be offended at things that upset them emotionally is a form of bullying. I know you probably didn't mean to do that; by starting off your otherwise well-written argument by belittling anyone who disagrees with you, you're diminishing the force of your argument and making sure that people who do feel slightly offended for whatever reasons have no impetus to follow along.
jealouspirate Jan 7th 2011 10:16AM
@ Slaign
My problem is more with the length of the Indiana Jones parody, not the "Schnotzis", but I don't entirely agree with you.
Not making jokes about WWII or the Nazi regime isn't about "letting ourselves be drowned in grief", or about not being able to move on and enjoy ourselves. It's simply about respect for the seriousness of what happened and for those that lived and died in the middle of it. I'm not saying there should never be any jokes about it, or that we must be ever somber when talking about it, but I think there's a certain reverence that ought to permeate our thinking on the matter that "fashionism" don't display.
I know Blizzard didn't mean any harm by it, that's it's simply a few light-hearted quests in an equally silly game, but I think the fact that it's made so light of is the problem in the first place.
theRaptor Jan 7th 2011 10:19AM
Are you seriously telling me that people are taking offence (or even finding in bad taste) a parody of a movie from the 80's which made fun of the Nazi's as well? Especially as that movie was made by Stephen Spielberg who has more right to be offended by Nazi jokes then most of the middle class PC crowd that normally get upset over this stuff.
One of MY pet peeves is people taking offence on behalf of other people. Thinking that the Schnotz parody was in bad taste in a game whose lore describes several attempted genocides* is a clear indicator of someone who needs to get a fucking life so that they can take offence to something that actually fucking matters.
* Let's see:
Draenei by the Eredar.
Draenei by the Orcs.
Elves/Humans by Trolls.
Trolls by Elves/Humans.
Everyone by the Burning Crusade.
Everyone by the Scourge.
Cataca Jan 7th 2011 10:19AM
Would it be horrible of me to post a downfall video to Spinks and Murloc Parliment's site?
(If you don't know what I'm talking about see here. http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/downfall-hitler-meme)
Thundrcrackr Jan 7th 2011 10:29AM
The only thing I hated about Uldum was the 9568730478 cut scenes interrupting my game every other quest turn in.
Other than that, i loved it.
DoubleCrit Jan 7th 2011 10:40AM
What? How can you not like Uldum?!? It's by far the best new zone in cata. I would say it beats out NaGrand as far as awesomeness goes. I love the indie quest lines. In fact I play Indiana Jones on my second monitor while in that zone. At 85 I came back to clear every quest in the entire zone it was so much fun.
Alchemistmerlin Jan 7th 2011 12:23PM
The entire zone would have benefitted from more Ramkahen/Brann Bronzebeard and less Jones/Schnottz.
Also: Anyone else a little irked that the Horde archeology trainer is...a nazi?
theRaptor Jan 7th 2011 1:29PM
@Alchemistmerlin
Belloc Brightblade is a reference to Rene Belloq from _Raiders of the Lost Arc_.
He is the Horde archaeology trainer because the alliance trainer is Harrison Jones. In the Indy universe they were rivals for many years. Belloq wasn't a Nazi he just worked for them.
Additionally there are no Nazi's in WoW. Schnotz is a reference to the Nazi's from _Raiders of the Lost Arc_ but the references are nearly all puns ("Fashionism" and "NINE NINE NINE NINE!"). If it wasn't for the Indy references his actions in Uldum are stereotypically Goblin and have nothing to do with the ideology of Nazism.
Fox Van Allen Jan 7th 2011 3:16PM
In general, I feel there should be "no limits" when it comes to comedy, because that's comedy's point. I love brutally offensive comedy.
My problem with the Schnotzz Uldum quests isn't that they're offensive or that they reference Nazis. It's that they're just not funny or entertaining. It's all just lazy puns. Puns are not funny. Puns are stupid. And to make it worse, the most "offensive" of the stuff isn't even really related to the Harrison Jones "adventure." It's just tacked on.
If you're going to wind up offending a bunch of people -- which any reference to Hitler will no doubt do -- you might as well be funny while you're doing it. Swing and a miss.
Maribel Jan 7th 2011 4:11PM
I'm not an Indiana Jones fan. I don't have anything against them, I just never saw them in full. So the references in the quests didn't mean much to me, and they certainly aren't the beloved-childhood-nostalgia that a lot of people got.
I wasn't offended by the Schnottz thing, per se. But I was distinctly grossed out by the part where I go to visit Schnottz under my own power and start doing things he tells me to do, especially when the references to real Nazi generals pop up. It would have been one thing if they'd stayed at one remove - references to the Indiana Jones villains, who were Nazis - but now they were just direct references to the Nazis.
My husband is Jewish; his grandparents fled Poland when Hitler invaded. To me, Nazi means "these are people who would murder your husband, and any kids you might have, and possibly you." It's difficult for me to separate them from that, so my first thought was "this goblin is planning genocide, even if it's not obvious yet. My Draenei lived through an attempted genocide. She should either kill this guy in the face or run away screaming, not run errands for him." I actually left the zone and dropped the quests for a long time, until completionism drew me back. I know the final outcome was a more standard "we will rule/destroy the world, using this doomsday device!" but in the early stages of the quest chain, in Schnottz's camp, the whole thing made me queasy.
I'm not speaking for my husband, who has more right to be offended or not, but hasn't done Uldum yet. That was just my reaction - discomfort, and some frustration that my character was letting Harrison hog all the heroics. I wanted to tell him "you go mess with the ruins, I'm breaking Schnottzi skulls," or at the very least, put up a fight when I was sent to be executed, but nope.
Also: Lazy puns are the worst kind of humor. Put in some EFFORT, Blizz.
Nina Katarina Jan 7th 2011 9:33AM
I got rather tired of the Indiana Jones questline; at least I won't have to do it on any of my alts. Four or five quests would have been fine as a tribute, but the hourslong epic with fifty billion cutscenes where someone other than myself was the hero... ugh.
It felt a bit like lazy writing. I would far have preferred more about the Ramkahen, the titans, the air elementals, even the crazed gnomes. We've got a whole zone that fleshes out the earth elementals, but when we get to Al'Akir, I'm not sure why we're fighting him other than phat lewtz.
In addition, as a Hordie, Uldum felt far too Alliance-biased. Our archaeology trainer is named after an obscure Indiana Jones villain, and appears only as flavor text in the questline. The final reveal of the questline showcases another famous Alliance archaeologist. Where are our heroes in this zone?
jealouspirate Jan 7th 2011 9:40AM
"Four or five quests would have been fine as a tribute, but the hourslong epic with fifty billion cutscenes where someone other than myself was the hero... ugh."
Exactly! The objective for this quest (http://www.wowhead.com/quest=27431/tipping-the-balance) basically sums up Uldum for me:
0/1 Stayed Out of Harrison's Way
I'm not even sure why we went there in the first place. There seems to be absolutely zero Horde or Alliance presence, and the breadcumb quest to go there essentially says "There might be treasure, go loot the place".
Kylenne Jan 7th 2011 12:39PM
I absolutely adored Uldum and the whole Harrison Jones quest line, being a big Indy fan myself. I think it helped that my main is a female Blood Elf though, I just pictured myself in the role of Marion. :D That said, I can understand the criticisms, especially the one about the lack of Horde heroes in the zone. With all the sun motifs going on in Uldum, it would have been a perfect opportunity for Tae'thalan Bloodwatcher to show up, especially when you consider the Reliquary's very raison d'être is to find and secure powerful artifacts. Where the hell were they after the breadcrumb quest that leads you there from Deepholm?
I would have liked to have seen Belloc play a bigger role, since there was no real explanation for why the Horde archeology trainer was ostensibly working for the bad guys; yes, he's a shoutout to René Belloq and that's why he's there with Schnottz, but non Indy fans wouldn't catch the joke and it just feels like bad storytelling for the sake of shoehorning in a parody. Honestly, as much as I love the zone, that seems to be a running theme with that questline--the *WoW* storytelling seemed to take a back seat to writing an elaborate love letter to the Indy mythos.
Aanye Jan 7th 2011 2:13PM
I was worried that such an extended amount of pop culture references would bother me, but Uldum turned out to be my favorite zone in Cata. They blended the Indy spoof seamlessly with the Downfall gag, and... Heck, I don't even know what led us to "Hacking the Wibson" and what I call the Katamari Gnomacy... But it was hilarious!
I don't get where the OMG-Nazi-I'm-uncomfortable thing comes from. It's not a Nazi = German thing. This isn't stereotype, it's satire. And why can't Blizzard poke at a historical regime in a fantasy realm? Plenty of significant examples of pop culture lampooning Naziism in the past... Before the Downfall videos, there were The Producers. Before that, Hogan's Heroes. Heck, Chaplin satirized Hitler BEFORE America even joined WWII.
And I don't see anywhere that Blizzard is poking fun of the atrocities the Nazis committed. On the other hand, I don't see them humanizing the Hitler figure in any way. So where's the offense coming from? I just don't get it. I'm glad I'm not so easily offended--it was a fun zone for me.
sprout_daddy Jan 7th 2011 9:39AM
I agree as well. I am particularly put off by the stupid "German" text. Is that supposed to be funny?
I made a point when Cataclysm started to finally read and absorb all the quest text - I was rolling a new character, starting fresh, and wanted to absorb all the lore and flavor. The Schnottz quests are hard to read, not particularly funny, and, despite my efforts to remember that this is a game, offensive. I understand the need to have a villain, and I understand the desire to continue the use of Harrison Jones (who I found entertaining in LK and continue to find entertaining here), but the introduction of a Nazi parody seems a bit much. I was glad the Great Escape homage occurred quickly in the quest line, as the prospect of a plotline parodying the Third Reich with prisoners in huts had the potential to develop along cringe-worthy lines.
I completely understand its just a game, but I'm not sure you can make something funny that wasn't funny to begin with, nor am I sure this is the kind of thing that should have been trivialized in a video game plot, even if it was to keep the Harrison Jones plotline in sync.
Angelyne Jan 7th 2011 9:41AM
What I really want to know about kitty kat people, is where are all the women??