Officers' Quarters: How a guild dies

This column is a special one for me. A reader wrote an email to the Drama Mamas, who passed it along to me as a topic that seemed more appropriate for OQ. When I read the email, it struck quite a chord, because the issue the guild leader raises is one that led directly to the collapse of my own guild. Yes, my own guild is finished, and so I can now reveal what guild I led and why it is now defunct in the hope that others can avoid the same fate.
But first, the email:
My girlfriend and I are the founders of a casual raiding/leveling guild. It's always been an eclectic mix of people, and it's one of my favorite parts of playing WoW.
We're both friendly and empathetic, and people tend to develop bonds with us. We spend time together to the point where they feel comfortable in asking us for advice with serious real-life problems.
However, the major problem is that our guild is that it's highly focused around my girlfriend and I. It feels like the only people who can lead a raid are the two of us, for example. People help in other ways, like donating to the guild bank or recruiting, but there isn't much leadership in the guild.
I don't mind doing these things, if it weren't for the following issue: If my girlfriend and I can't be on for a week or two because of work, school, illness, travel or Internet issues, the guild falls apart. Nobody takes up the slack, people get in fights, leave for bigger raiding guilds, and when we finally get a chance to log back on, we're looking at a skimpy roster of what used to be "friends."
We've had a few officers throughout the years, but all of them left for one reason or another, usually a RL issue. Some of these mass exoduses have been so severe that we considered either disbanding the guild or at least moving our mains to another guild. Our little guild has accomplished some pretty amazing feats in its two years, and it's heartbreaking to even have to consider leaving.
Is there a way to find people who stay through thick and thin? Should we actively recruit people for officer positions? We have friends in a few powerful guilds on the server; should we put our mains in a progression raiding guild and leave our alts in our old one for nostalgia's sake?
Thanks for your help,
Ditched
Hi, Ditched. Your issue is a very serious one. It is in fact one of the most common reasons why guilds fall apart, as I know well. I am about to go on a long tangent about my own guild here, but it has lessons that I hope will be valuable to you and other readers.
Some background
Friends and I founded the Horde guild <Boomstick Syndicate> of Khadgar (US) on Jan. 18, 2005, less than two months after the launch of WoW. I set up the guild and became the guild leader, mainly because no one else wanted the job. At that time, I had absolutely no idea what I was signing up for. I played a hunter named Grengarm and later a paladin named Morningstar.
We started out as a social leveling guild, morphed into a casual raiding guild when we hit 60 and remained so throughout the years. We managed to run some 40-mans back in vanilla, but despite a massive roster that at times had close to 300 accounts, we were generally more successful in the smaller raids. Two of our key tenets were the absence of a raid attendance policy and valuing real life over WoW. Such policies are not conducive to large raid sizes, and we found it easier to field multiple, smaller teams than one big group on specific nights.
At the start of BC, I had a dependable, diverse, and effective officer corps. I had multiple raid leaders who were all great in that role, a dedicated and effective recruiting officer, a loot officer who knew the math behind the stats inside and out, an officer to manage the website and other tech, and even some officers who were great at handling drama.
One by one, however, the leadership of the guild dwindled, claimed by real-life responsibilities as people earned degrees, started families or new careers, or moved to incompatible time zones. Of course, a few also burned out. For the most part, such things are inevitable.
By early Wrath, the officer ranks had been whittled down to a paltry three. We made it known that we were looking for more help, and several members stepped up. None of them lasted very long as officers. Some ran into real-life issues; a few just admitted that they weren't cut out for the role and asked for a demotion.
I'll admit it: With a mix of casual/social members and members who were essentially hardcore raiders, Boomstick was a difficult guild to lead. It's one of the reasons why I don't advise mixing and matching guild types. It's much easier to run a guild that's purely social/casual or a guild that's purely for serious raiding. Combining the two is merely a recipe for personality clashes, and our guild certainly had its share. Because of our early cluelessness about such things, that's how the guild evolved. At some point between expansions, we probably should have made things easier on ourselves and sundered the community into two separate guilds. We discussed it, but we never had the heart to do so.
And so we forged ahead, with myself and another officer, Kilrajin, handling all the recruiting, raid leading, website management, and drama. It was a lot to manage on top of our own personal lives. Kilrajin had done so much for the guild over the years and was so instrumental in the guild's continued survival that I eventually promoted him to co-guild leader at the guild's fifth anniversary party. A third officer handled loot for us for most of the expansion, and we were grateful to her for taking that off our plates. Our roster shrank as we began to feel the pressure of a reduced officer corps and stopped accepting all but the most exceptional applicants, often not replacing players who grew bored during Wrath's content gaps, never to return.
Regardless, we had quite a bit of success in Wrath. Once every raid could be run in a 10-man format, we set out to conquer all the content that Blizzard could throw at us. We were able to earn the Ulduar drakes during patch 3.2 and downed hard-mode Anub'arak. We killed the Lich King with only a 5% buff, but by that point, the guild was already rapidly falling apart.
The collapse
Kilrajin and I began to burn out from a lack of leadership help during the summer of 2009. We even tried sweetening the deal by guaranteeing officers a raid slot in our hard-mode runs, provided they weren't holding the raid back, but to no avail. By early 2010, we were desperate for more officers. We put out one final request and made it clear, against my better judgment, that we would be willing to promote anyone to the position regardless of their current rank or how long they had been a member, as long as they would take on one or two of the leadership responsibilities.
Two members requested officer status. One never followed through at all. The other agreed to take on recruiting and raid leadership duties. He excelled at it for a short while and even managed to put some 25-man, all-guild Icecrown runs together. Everything was going smoothly. Then one day, he simply never logged in again and never provided me with an explanation why, even via our website. I heard a rumor that his brother (also one of our key raiders) had decided to stop playing after meeting a lady friend, and our new officer didn't want to play if his brother wasn't online, but to this day I just don't know.
With the abrupt disappearance of two of our best raiders, our runs faltered. We were back to inviting PUGs if we wanted to run 25s, and Icecrown in the early days of its release was not a PUG-friendly place. A few other raiders who had joined us during Wrath decided to leave for dedicated 25-man guilds. Their departure triggered a chain reaction. In a matter of mere weeks, a guild that had been running 25s could barely field a workable 10-man team, and that ultimately caused further departures.
Kilrajin and I were in no shape to rebuild the roster. The greater part of the past year had been an enormous struggle. With no hope of any leadership help on the horizon and a roster that was no longer capable of putting together a balanced raid, we made the decision to cancel all future runs. That, of course, scattered our remaining raiders to other guilds. Amidst the disappointment, for us, there was also relief. The long struggle was over.
We used the time to consider our options. The two of us are raiders to the bone, and so it was either find another guild to raid with or quit the game entirely. Eventually we were lucky enough to find a Khadgar guild with some truly excellent and active officers who were willing to invite our mains as raiders for the remainder of Wrath. At the time, we left our alts as Boomstick's guild leaders and kept the guild as a purely social shadow of its former raiding self.
A few days before the release of Cataclysm, we met over drinks and decided the fate of Boomstick Syndicate. We considered turning over the guild to one of the remaining members. By that point, however, the guild hadn't been doing much of anything for about 8 months and only a handful of dedicated casual members were left. We decided to keep the shell of the guild in case we ever wanted to revive it, but to shut it down otherwise. We were done, at least for now, with leadership. We were very happy with the new raiding guild that we had joined and it was refreshing to enjoy the game as ordinary players. We had also managed to bring a few friends from Boomstick with us to our new home.
Five years and change is a long time to be a guild leader. It was an extraordinary experience, and I have no regrets. I met a lot of wonderful people in that time, and I still keep in touch with quite a few of them. I'm proud of everything we accomplished together, from our early Dire Maul tribute runs to our one and only Lich King kill.
Since I've never actually been a regular member of a WoW guild, I'm learning quite a bit from the experience that will help me when I become an officer or guild leader again some day. It's always helpful to see things from a new perspective, and I'm making the most of that.
Lessons learned
For a guild to survive as long as ours had, we'd overcome quite a few challenges, including prior periods of defection. However, to move past major obstacles requires leaders who are willing to put in the hard work. We'd done so countless times. Finally, the two of us just couldn't do it anymore, and with no one else to step up, the guild ceased to function.
That's why you are in perilous territory, Ditch. I'll answer your questions one by one.
Is there a way to find people who stay through thick and thin?
There is not. They will emerge as the ones who stand by your guild when it encounters setbacks. Thus, you will eventually know who they are. But there is no way to recruit for loyalty. Even if there were, loyalty from your members is something you as a leader have to earn. It is not freely given.
Should we actively recruit people for officer positions?
I don't recommend it. Players are generally reluctant to become officers, and pretty much no one wants to join a guild and immediately become an officer of it. Besides, it's a bad idea in general for someone who doesn't know the community to be thrust into a leadership role.
The only way to find officers is from within your own roster. If you don't have any members who want to help you right now, then you probably won't have any help for quite a while. Most likely, you'll have to wait until a member you recruit down the road is around long enough to become an officer. Until then, I suggest scaling back guild activities to a level that the two of you can manage.
Don't fool yourself into thinking that it has to get better at some future time. It may always be just the two of you doing all the work. Can you handle that? Can your guild survive it? These are two very important questions to ask yourselves right now.
Should we put our mains in a progression raiding guild and leave our alts in our old one for nostalgia's sake?
It all depends on how you answer the two questions above. For Kilrajin and I, that became a temporary solution until we made the painful decision to shut down Boomstick for good. It was a bittersweet ending for us. Our new guild is a rock-solid organization and we are excited to be there. (I even switched to a death knight main because the guild had so few.) However, it was excruciating to watch our own guild sputter and die.
My advice to you is to make it clear that the guild can't continue without some additional help from members. Hopefully, someone will answer the call. If not, then try to be realistic about your own abilities and the guild's future, and make your decision accordingly.
The lesson in Boomstick's demise for everyone is that even a long-established guild cannot survive without an adequate number of active and motivated officers. I urge any nonofficers who are reading this column to help your officers if they seem to be struggling. For all but the smallest communities, one or two people cannot handle all the tasks that go into leading a raiding guild, at least not indefinitely.
You don't have to be an officer to help. There are minor tasks, such as helping to moderate your guild's forums, managing low-rank bank vaults, or organizing a PvP night, that anyone can do. In Cataclysm, guilds are more crucial to an enjoyable WoW experience than they're ever been. If you value your community, volunteer to lend a hand. Believe it or not, your guild's survival may depend on it!
On an unrelated note, the site is still having problems forwarding messages through our old wow.com email addresses, so please use my updated email address -- scott@wowinsider.com -- moving forward. If I haven't replied to your email, that means I haven't received it, so please resend it to the updated address. Thanks!
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Pugnus Jan 10th 2011 5:14PM
One of the best Officer Quarters. Being a current guild leader and a past officer in another guild ... it seems that guilds are perpetually on the brink of collapse. It doesn't take much for a good, solid guild to veer a bit much and fall apart. It's one of the most exhausting and un-fun parts of the game. The constant care and feeding can just get you down.
musicchan Jan 10th 2011 5:16PM
I was an officer in a guild for quite a while and it's a tough job, especially when you can see the guild going downhill. I really enjoyed this article and it has so many valid points when you look at things from the other side of a guild collapse. It's just amazing how much a dedicated officer core can make to a guild of any sort. You can't just have officers who are there; they have to be actively participating in the running of the guild. You get what you put into a guild but the officers are the ones who have to put in the most.
This isn't just good advice to people who are running a guild though. This is also good advice to people who are wondering if the guilds they're in are healthy and likely to continue.
CLASSIFIED Jan 10th 2011 5:20PM
I tried making a guild once. We had a good start, but it didn't last long. I soon discovered being a guild leader is like a part-time job. A commitment I didn't want nor couldn't make =\
Scooter Jan 10th 2011 5:21PM
The only time a guild dies is when a guild master has had enough and has no one to hand the guild over to. Your fighting against yourself as much as your roster. The question is are you able to continue? So long as your guild has 1 member it is still a guild and capable of growing. Your guild is once again a leveling guild.
Either start a new character and invite people as you level up or stick with your current main and say farewell. You'll always have your memories.
Goodbyes often suck. But they pave ways to new fortune.
Phelps Jan 10th 2011 5:24PM
FWIW, our guild has been similar. ( Aggramar) We've got our core cadre (more than two, thankfully.) We've always been small. We took all our mains to another guild that was raiding (but I wouldn't call it it a raiding guild) and eventually got into disputes with the leadership. What do you expect when you invite guys who used to have "Criminals" in their name? But we kept alts in the old name, as an escape hatch.
Then we joined an alliance for a while as FLC, and ended up joining the largest guild in the alliance when it fell apart, again with our mains. And then, BC came out, that guild fell apart, and we put FLC back together. Then, we were able to start doing KZ with 10 after a little recruiting, but eventually we recruited up to handle the 25 mans. And then things fell apart again.
Like you said, Wrath having the option of 10 mans for everything has helped a lot. We've stayed together through all that, occasionally having enough people for 25s but mainly staying on 10s, because we have a low tolerance for asshattery.
The main thing I've learned is: if the old guild is still there, you will remain a clique inside the other guild, because it will always be in the back of your mind that you can say, "screw you guys, I'ma goin home." That's a warning for guilds who take in small guilds as well. You may very well be bringing in a seditious (to your purposes) clique. I think that Blizzards guild rep system will alleviate some of this, but since the rep doesn't go away in the old guild, it's still gonna be easy to say, "you don't like my way, I'll take the highway."
Alberoth Jan 26th 2011 9:24AM
In a way, I agree totally with the larger guild absorbing a smaller guild. If you are going to be serious about a merger between two guilds, you dont just get all the members of the other guild join the larger. You create a whole new guild with a name made from both guild names or something completely new with no attachment to either guilds.
With one of the guilds I have been associated with, we were approached by another guild to do merged raids with the intention of merging both guilds. But as we were the larger, we took the attitude that if you want to merge, you can join us... and it all fell apart. They ended up making a new guild (Damnation) and then merging with another guild (that had Dawn in their name) and became Dawn of Damnation. Those guys went on to kill the LK in heroic mode on a regular basis while the guild I was in stagnated.
The GL would organise 25man raids, where perhaps 15 members of the raid were pug friends and the remaining 10 members were from the guild. The GL wouldnt organise 10man runs on ICC because he had his own little group going made up of friends and a few members of the guild.
Since then, the members of the guild I used to run have all started up new toons or left the guild and I restarted our old guild as a place where we could get together and be social and maybe do some raids together. Since then, we have recruited carefully and we are actually prospering and having a lot of fun. We have a lot of alts in the guild and about 40-50 actual members and we are slowly getting organised for Cata raiding.
Fun is the main aim of our guild and raiding together is a side effect of that fun.
jcgoodman Jan 10th 2011 5:24PM
I'm a member of a guild that has been around continuously since launch. We've gone through at least three rounds of mass exodus, but we're still going strong. The key?
"A bad guild is like a person. If it loses its head, it dies. A good guild is like a starfish. All the arms are equal, and if one is lost, the others work fine until a new one regrows." -- Me
Jeremy Jan 10th 2011 9:22PM
You quoted yourself? Really? Just say what you have to say.
altaddictneedsrehab Jan 10th 2011 5:28PM
"I don't advise mixing and matching guild types."
I was once an officer in an RP guild that decided to start "casual" raiding. Casual raiding raiding became hardcore raiding and the guild was constantly split between the raiders and the RPers. It was led by a husband and wife team who were also seen as divided: one as pro: raid and the other as pro: RP.
The raiding group would eventually figure out they didn't need anyone else and split off from the main guild. This happened at least three or four times. Of course, the accommodations made to please the raiders made the RPers unhappy. Eventually most of the RPers left. The guild was in a constant state of flux and drama. Officers would leave or ask to be demoted. The guild still exists, but it is a shell of its former self. Very sad.
W01ph Jan 10th 2011 5:28PM
This is also eerily close to what we're facing in the guild that me and my wife created. At the very least, it gives us much to consider, as our guild is also a somewhat mixed type guild. I think we've been remarkably successful with our guild as it is, however, I've known for some time (though I haven't wanted to face it) that we need to clarify our guild persona. Now we just need to decide where we go from here...
lsprof4 Jan 10th 2011 5:32PM
I've also been playing for several years and haven't really figured out how to "create" a workable, progressive guild... in my experience, they either happen or they don't, and they always seem so fragile.
Arrowsmith Jan 10th 2011 5:49PM
I've watched four guilds die.
The first one died because a senseless fight between officers caused a mass exodus. The second was because the GM was using guild raid IDs to run raids with friends, and I jumped that ship before it really start to sank. The third died from ignorant officers and a ninja-happy ex-GM causing a major divide, and the most recent guild I watched die happened at the end of Wrath, due to our first GM up and leaving after committing a mass ninja, and none of us able to properly pick the guild back up.
What's kind of funny is that aside from the second guild I've watched die, the other three were all guilds that my best friend and I had a hand in creating. Third time's the charm, we've both vowed to never help someone else start a guild ever again. Ever.
Garnlok Jan 10th 2011 5:58PM
I've only been playing WoW for about a year and a half, and for the duration other people where paying for it for me. In that time I've become an officer twice, once when a freind decided to make a RP guild. I was helping him knock out the kinks in the background for the guild (Horde guild worshipping Grumsh, God of Orcs, who's backstory we invented to fit into the WoW universe) when the guild leader got grounded, so it never really got anywhere. The second time was on my Dranea palliden Briken. I was questing in Feralas when a gnome mage named Wizurd invited me to join the guild he was building. Deciding I might as well, I joined it. Wizurd told me he intended it to be a social guild while he lvl'd up, then turn it into a raiding one so he could see end game content.
At the time it had a few people he had run across and asked to join. For a while it was basicly a glorified chat room for the 2 or 3 people that would be on at a time, but I got bored with this, so I offered to start orginizing fun activities for charecters of all lvl's to liven up the guild and actually get people to meet each other and interact. At the time my main charecter, Garnlok, had hit 80 and was raiding with a freinds guild, meaning when I wasn't raiding there wasn't much to do on him other then grind achives out of boredom, so I played Briken alot, quickly heading towards the lvl cap. I'm an aweful recruiter, and Wizurds method of randomly asking people was very hit or miss. Fortunatly for us we recruited Serenae, a very social person who easily made lots of freinds and invited them to the guild. Membership boomed, although we still had mostly 70 and under charecters.
When I finaly hit the lvl cap I started to consider raiding, as this had been the intended goal of the guild once we got that high. We had only about 5 members at the cap, none of whom had raided much other then me, so I decided to run Kara for everyone 70+. We Puged up to 10 people and cleared the instance (although I insisted on 3 healers... my first time leading an old world raid XD), having tons of fun along the way.
Wizurd decided to pass the leadership of the guild to me, because he realized I was doing most of the work. We managed to work through a rough spot here because I wasn't sure if Wizurd even wanted to be an officer, as he had not seemed motivated to lead at any point. Eventually we settled on him being PvP lead, because he had found he liked that far more then PvE, and I asked him to get people to do bg's together for rated battlegrounds. The idea was to be a social guild that dabbled in everything, focusing on having fun doing things together instead of clearing bosses or earning PvP titles.
Realizing I couldn't do all the work and motivated with my new shiny Guild Master title, I started trying to get a team of officers going. Unfortunatly, there seemed to be no officer materal members. I made Serenae recruitment officer, wich was fine, though her duties where still fuzzy, Wizurd PvP lead, he ended up never scheduling anything, and another player raid leader, she scheduled some things, then stopped logging on when she had difficulty with people coming (I had been leading mostly PuG raids into ToC, wich epicly failed due to my failure to figure out how to tank the worms correctly).
Then I learned my funding was going away for WoW come October. I started trying to groom Serenae to lead when I was gone, because she was the only officer still trying to help lead, but she didn't want the presure of the job and didn't seem to understand I wouldn't be around all the time, as it was doubtful I could find a job to fund WoW before I had to quit. Then my computer broke and I didn't even get to prepare the guild for my sudden vanishing. I hope someone managed to hold it together, though I doubt it. Its likely gone back to being a glorified chat room it was before I tried to build it into something. I'm also not really sure why I just wrote this all down, but maybe it'll be an interesting read.
Brett Porter Jan 10th 2011 6:42PM
I know a lot of people don't like "walls of text" but I actually really enjoyed your recounting. It was similar to a guild I helped create with folks I didn't know, but I was an original signer and eventually asked to be 3rd in command.
Unfortunately I'm an altoholic, and I'd switch back and forth between my horde server (this one I'm talking about) and my alliance one; since then I found the WoW Insider guild so all my hordies are there, and all my alliance folks are with WHU.
Rufio Jan 10th 2011 8:25PM
Yeah me too, enjoyable read, thank you for sharing :-)
artifex Jan 11th 2011 2:20AM
Hey, maybe your guildies will read this and at least understand what happened. They might even reply here :)
I've been part of a couple of guilds that failed, and it was pretty much for reasons similar to yours. One, the GL was pretty much jobless and couch surfing with a buddy, but decided he was overstaying his welcome or something. We didn't hear back from him for months, but at least we heard pretty quickly. The other, he just disappeared, and after a couple of months his roommate showed up and said he thought he was stuck in another country. Eventually he came back, too, but someone had already petitioned for guild leadership and dissolved it.
But hey, at least your guildies will know what's happened. I also knew another guy, we became heroics buddies, etc., and eventually he started asking me to log in as him on his toons and help him level, or help his guildies run some heroics with his priest. He offered to pay me gold, but when I asked why the heck he wanted me to do this, and why he'd give me his login info (his guildies were okay with it) he told me he was having to go into the hospital a couple of days at a time for treatment and stuff. Well, one day he just completely disappeared, no warning, he just didn't come back. And if he wasn't making up what was going on... I have to assume the worst.
Not knowing sucks. For online buddies who have no idea what's going on, just notice you're gone, they don't know if you're bored, or broke, or buried. Good thing you let your officer have some idea, and good you can at least make some kind of followup here, even if you can't get back in the game.
pere Jan 10th 2011 6:01PM
This is definitely one of the best officers' quarters I've read. I've been an officer in a progression raiding guild for over a year now, and ever since becoming one I've made sure to at least skim the articles here, even if they were regarding issues that didn't necessarily pertain to my guild. This article however, really struck a chord with me because the issue explained here has been the single greatest threat to the life of my guild, and only through a lot of hard work, and more than a little luck, were certain flare-ups of this issue prevented from annihilating us, and even then we had a long period of recovery at one point.
From my own experience I can say this: no matter how brilliant of a leader you are, you will always need a good team of people to support and work with you, and they have to be people willing to step up on their own. The officers of a guild can't be the arms, legs, and body of which the guild master is the head that, in the end, controls everything. The officer corps has to be a solid team that works together, and the guild master is simply the captain of that team.
It takes huge luck to find people who are willing and able to make it all work (especially in the long-term), and even then there will be hard times. I think it's a gargantuan achievement to have lead a guild for over five years before it finally died. I don't think I'd be able to do even close to that, but hopefully with these articles, I'll be able to keep things going a bit longer than they otherwise would.
Much thanks.
Adoisin Jan 10th 2011 6:01PM
You also have to be true to your vision. My guild started out as a small place to hang out with friends who casually raided. Everyone started complaining about not being able to do 25 mans tho. They wanted better gear and more content. Another guild was disbanding, and I knew the leaders, so they decided to merge with us so we could all do the larger raids. All of a sudden, the ones who were originally complaining said the guild was too big, it had changed, and they all defected.
You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.
Eric S Jan 10th 2011 6:09PM
I've managed to rise to officer, or even guild leader, in every guild I've ever been in, despite not having great leadership skills, just because I'm a helpful person that does stick it out till the end.
Well, the first guild I ever joined in WoW, and had been GL of for three years, fell apart over this summer. It was a pretty sad thing, but I just let go, because we had a good run, and trying to keep it going would have tacked more bad memories onto what was essentially a good time.
So now, I'm in a new guild (a few guildies followed me, and one or two even jumped first) as just a regular person, not leadership or anything, and I'm loving it. Sure, it's not the same group of people, but at least I found a similar group. And when something does go wrong, I don't feel like I have to make it all better.
My original intention was to leave a few of my toons in the old guild to keep in touch and only move my active toons over to the new one, but to be honest, there's only one person that's even close to active in the old guild and he's on my friends list, so I've decided to move all of them.
I won't say that there are no regrets, but overall, I've gone back to enjoying the game rather than dreading logging in just to see who has left this time.
Doroga Jan 10th 2011 6:43PM
I can not believe how similar this story is to my own. Similarities to yourself as well as your partner in crime are felt all too deeply. Wrath seemed to punish any guild member that *was* loyal, and we lost a lot of core members.
Anyway, as a guild leader that tried for the "Real life over WoW, but still hardcore raiding" title, I can agree it's damn difficult.
I feel your pain man, as I'm sure my fellow Onyxia hordies do as well.