The Daily Quest: LFG
by Anne Stickney 
Jan 10th 2011 at 2:00PM
WoW Insider's on a Daily Quest to bring you interesting, informative and entertaining WoW-related links from around the blogosphere.
When the dungeon finder tool was introduced with Patch 3.3, people rejoiced. Here was an easy way to queue up for both regular and heroic dungeons that required much less sitting in capital cities and spamming trade chat with pleas for groups. Instead, you could queue up, go about your day, and then begin your dungeon when the queue popped. These days, the shiny newness of the dungeon finder seems to have faded, 40- to 50-minute queues for DPS being the norm. Today, we've got a few posts from around the blogosphere regarding the tool, as well as behavior in heroics.
- World of Warcraft Philosophized discusses the problem of subjectivity in dungeon finder policing.
- Priest With A Cause talks about the current state of the dungeon finder from a healer's point of view.
- Flash of Moonfire ponders the problem with daily heroics and lackadaisical tanks.
Is there a story out there we ought to link or a blog we should be following? Just leave us a comment, and you may see it here tomorrow! Be sure to check out our WoW Resources Guide for more WoW-related sites. Filed under: The Daily Quest
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Gossamer Jan 10th 2011 2:08PM
I like the idea of quests that teach you how to be a better dungeon goer at the end of dungeon finder policing. Some things, like kill order, who to CC and when , waiting for the healer to mana up, etc, are all learned from experience. I've been playing WoW for years now, but I remember my first pug dungeons and how much I struggled with things experienced players think are basic. Pugs can be brutal for newbies, and a little taste with faux group members could be very helpful.
Kaphik Jan 10th 2011 2:28PM
That's what friends are for in WoW. I was taught how to tank by another warrior way back in Scarlet Monastery, nearly five years ago. Oh sure, I understand the community has changed a lot, but there are still people on every server who are more than willing to help out new players, and teach them how to perform their role.
What the LFD does is bring about a fix for those who want faster queues and more rewards. That's all. People need to recognize this, and understand the possible downsides to being with a full random group. New players should be encouraged to seek help from other players on their server. That's the only downside to the way things are now.
omedon666 Jan 10th 2011 3:13PM
"What the LFD does is bring about a fix for those who want faster queues and more rewards. That's all. People need to recognize this, and understand the possible downsides to being with a full random group. New players should be encouraged to seek help from other players on their server."
Quoting for emphasis. Thank you.
AGx07162 Jan 10th 2011 4:29PM
A lot of times there's no talking to people anymore. I used to be very helpful but lately everyone takes everything you say as an insult. Yesterday for instance, I was healing a group as Disc Priest and had a Paladin Tank in Utgarde Keep (sp?). The tank was getting pummeled which was odd for a Lv70 in there. The DK said, "you're getting hit pretty hard lol" and the tank said "STFU I know how to play" when no one insulted his play style. I inspected him later and noticed he appeared to not have on any chest or shoulder gear and I asked "Is my game messed up or do you really not have any chest/shoulder gear on". I got told to stfu and the tank left.
An even better example would be when a Paladin forgets to put Righteous Fury on. Its an easy mistake that I did all the time leveling Pally but I never got pissed like some people do when I tell them "you forgot Fury" and I always do it in whisper because I dont even want to accidentally imply that I'm trying to make the pally look foolish to the group.
Guy Jan 10th 2011 5:30PM
I like that idea. I think if earlier dungeons needed more CC and kill order, it would be learned early on. Won't change what is happening now, but if I need to worry about CC, even a little on Ragefire, and let the CC get more intense so by the time you are running heroics, it is like 2nd nature.
Sergel Jan 10th 2011 6:00PM
@ AGx: I've had those problems. I hate tanking usually, preferring to DPS or heal, but sometimes I think i should since the tanks i get seem to take everything personally. I don't get upset at all at people, I mean i probably messed up. I deal with it, its just a game in the end.
BurceMage Jan 10th 2011 10:23PM
I'm actually a pally tank myself. Doesn't bother me if someone wants to give me advise, i actually appreciate it helps my game and that way we can actually get some bosses down. But what bothers me is a DPS starting to complain about the way i tank. Do not get me wrong if you don't know how to help me out to make it better because you don't know yourself well you should just keep you mouth shut and let someone that actually know how to tank help me out. Now for the Wait time well as a tank i don't have to wait 40min so basically if you start being really nasty with me and don't stop i will ask if we can kick that guy out and get another person first or i just leave the dungeon and re queue up.
PeP Jan 10th 2011 2:17PM
The URL of "World of Warcraft Philosophized(...)" is inverted with the "(...)dungeon finder policing."
Tom Ashmore Jan 10th 2011 2:20PM
Is it bad that I clicked enter dungeon?
ckknight Jan 10th 2011 2:20PM
As a warrior tank newly running heroics, I now refuse to run them unless the majority of my group consists of guild members (any typically, it's a full guild run). I've just gotten too frustrated with DPS that don't know what they're doing, constantly breaking CC, dying for no reason (stay out of the fire, people). I've had reasonably good luck with PUG'd healers, but if you're DPS, don't expect my queuing up for a random to help your queue time, since I've just been let down too many times.
Legs Jan 10th 2011 2:30PM
I suspect we agree on a lot of things, but I find it very frustrating when tanks/healers drop group in PuGs after a single wipe. You are clearly correct that there are players (especially DPS) that don't know the fights well, but there are many arguments for sticking around for at least three attempts; if there is no improvement at that point, then certainly dropping group is reasonable.
Unfortunately, I have also found that the same types of players who fast drop are the same ones who don't explain or organize the fight in the first place.
LittleHamster Jan 11th 2011 4:10AM
Same with ckknight, I won't queue up now unless it's 3-4 people from my own guild. Legs, it's not about not wiping, but actually how you wipe that matters. It's you knowing from your gut if the group can actually do the instance. If say, the fire add spawned in the corner where Valiona (ie Dragha's dragon) is tanked, while she's breathing half the room with flames. Fair enough. Or a someone dc in a fight. But if it's healer not being able to heal through Throngus dual blades with a disarm; or tank/melee dies on every shatter in Ozruk; or dps arguing 5k dps is acceptable. Sorry I'm not going to stick around wasting my repair gold with you. I don't fancy doing 1+ hour heroics. So my solution is just not queueing up on LFD unless I have a guild group with me.
Legs Jan 11th 2011 9:58AM
Don't worry LittleHamster, I agree with you :)
You're definitely right that how you wipe is important, which is exactly why some of the quick drop tanks/healers confuse me. It is clearly their prerogative to do so regardless, but it seems to me that they may be better served by being a bit more patient.
For example: Heroic SFK run first boss, pure PuG group, the same DPS and healer stuck around through 3 quick drop tanks (1 or maybe 2 attempts each). The first boss is super close, so we're talking what, 3, 4 minutes per attempt?
Then we get another tank, the DPS have our interrupts sorted out, we organize with the new tank and roll through the whole instance with no more wipes.
Does this mean that no one should never give up on a PuG? Of course not. It just means that there are tanks out there who are cutting off their nose to spite their face when being a touch more patient would be a win for everyone!
omedon666 Jan 10th 2011 2:21PM
Bit of a "back issue" from my blog, but the dungeon finder is a huge issue over at "Tales from the Void", specifically the culture trends surrounding need before greed:
http://omedon666.livejournal.com/76363.html
We also fully support, and have since beta, putting the WOTLK community through the hot forge of socially encouraging content:
http://omedon666.livejournal.com/2010/10/02/
DoubleCrit Jan 10th 2011 2:28PM
Finally a well thought out genuine write up on the new loot system most players are using.
Revrant Jan 10th 2011 3:02PM
I stopped reading at LOLAOE, I'm really growing tired of the elitist attitudes and revisionist view of the Wrath era, I appreciate your thoughtfulness in expressing your views, but your views are antithetical to not only how I remember things but how I treat other players.
omedon666 Jan 10th 2011 3:11PM
Revrant, while I wait for your comment to show up on this page, I have it in my email, so allow me to retort.
Revisionist? We're not talking ancient history, man. Not two months ago, team gogogo was melting the brains of social dungeoneers, and LOLAOE was the accepted (and unfortunately, actually most efficient) way to play. I was glad to see it die, and I am glad to see it get buried even now.
Smapdor Jan 10th 2011 3:25PM
Unfortunately, a system where it is perfectly acceptable to roll 'need' on offspec items is inherently unfair to classes who can only fulfill one role. A paladin could roll need on every type of plate, whereas a mage has a much smaller pool of potential drops.
Revrant Jan 10th 2011 3:31PM
Oh I agree, I was tanking, it's not a memory malfunction, toss down DnD and everyone hurls AoE ad nauseam, but you're inexplicably applying this to the entire Wrath experience. This AoE system of boring repetition did not exist at launch, and only reached prevalence when Ulduar rolled out and thus powerful Emblem and raid gear became more easily obtainable.
A flawed gearing system created the problem, and if the gearing is handled that way again it will happen again, you and many others blanket all of Wrath with this rhetoric. I, having gotten my ass handed to me Skirmisher after Skirmisher and web wrap after web wrap, unable to get past a gear check until I got good enough and people learned the dungeon, view this as revisionist.
omedon666 Jan 10th 2011 3:31PM
Smapdor (again, while the site catches up with the email notifications...), my response there is "but it's the system we have, pretending otherwise is futile".
To be frank, if you have "two roles", most often one of them will be one of the "pressure" roles (tank/healer), and I'm sorry, but these roles need (and thankfully the system gives them that) the ability to pursue progress on said pressure spec while DPSing, also known to these guys as "relaxing".
But that's opinion. The fact is, this is the system we have, you can't ask person X you've never met to not click need, and even if you could, you'd need a like agreement with person Y and Z for it to be completely fair and enforced. You're not going to get that, so roll need.
I used to have a crapload of links (from the OLD forums) where Blizzard stated pointedly that MS>OS is not their intention for the dungeon finder or NBG, and is an antiquated PUG habit best reserved for guild groups: it's not expected or intended for the dungeon finder.