It's a great point. I just hope it's countered by new heroics as old ones are nerfed. BC had, I believe, one new five man added over the course of its life, and Wrath had, what, four new heroics introduced over its lifetime, all but one of them in the final content patch?

What I'm saying is that I enjoy heroics, and I'm loving the challenge level they're at right now. I'm not really looking forward to having them be facerollable with no new five man challenges. Old content should be opened up to a wider audience. I just hope that opening comes with new content as well.

I've always been one who loved seeing older *normal* modes nerffed so that I could see them if I wasn't playing hardcore at the time. Once they've been out for a while, its a good plan.

But I'm also a huge fan of hard heroic modes - especially in 5 mans. Putting a ten man group together and clearing up to 10 bosses in wrath just to do your hard progression boss was a real drag.

Just an hour for a guild heroic 5 man run? Is that normal? I seriously consider it a win if it takes less than 2.

I'm not knocking any guild run that takes 2 hours to complete, but my guild runs don't take more than an hour for any heroic. We use vent to speed up communication. We are far from hardcore. In fact, none of us have set foot in any Cata raids yet.

I do a daily random every day, rarely with guildies. At the start of every dungeon, I speak with the players in my group, and make sure everyone understands what marks to CC. We let the tank pull trash, and before every boss fight, I ask if anyone needs an explanation. Finally, I don't insult or complain about any member - regardless of if they deserve it.

My randoms usually take no longer than an hour, and often more around 30 minutes. That's all it really takes to get a run working well. These dungeons aren't "hard", they just require players to pay attention and maintain moral - as a good challenge should.