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1-12-2011 @ 5:07PM
The heroics are fine. I love the challenge but now in raid gear they are a joke. The people QQ'ing are mostly the casuals who always get it their way. Make raids easier ok. Make 25 and 10 man drop same loot ok. Just makes the game way to easy and not even fun ok.
1-12-2011 @ 5:35PM
In all fairness, saying Cataclysm heroics are easy in raid gear is like saying differential calculus is easy with a supercomputer.
1-12-2011 @ 5:59PM
In all fairness I didn't say "full" raid gear. Plus all math test I have taken I have to show my work(which I hate). :/ But my first post got down voted but oh well. I can tell alot of casuals read here and not many hardcore players. I don't mean raid 7 days a week 12 hours a day, Because i only raid 9 hours a week. I just don't like easy stuff. I like to work for my reward, and that's exactly how heroics are but will not always stay once you get gear. Some might be complaining about pugs. Me I'm a DPS and i sit through the queue's and get apparantly amazing groups. All my pugs finish it and with hardly any problem..
1-12-2011 @ 6:04PM
Yes, heroics are fun. Yes, heroics are challenging (unless you completely outgear them)No, heroics can not always be completed unless you have certain elements that you cant always plan for.Unless Blizzard decided to give EVERY class a 9 second or less cd interupt (kick/shield bash) and a viable CC (hex/poly/sap), some of the heroics are downright brutal, and at times 100% impossible.On more than one occasion, I have zoned into SFK with me being the only interupt other than the holy paladin's HOJ (long cd). As a warrior, that means I can get 2 of the 3 abilities that needs to be interupted, and if the timing is bad, the boss practically resets. This is not fun, and just makes everyone involved not want to run instances. LFG screwed the group.Ever zone into a 5 man with no viable CC? I have, on several occasions. Disc Priest**Prot warriorFrost DKArms warrior**Fury warrior**(** from the same server) The LFG tool gave us NO cc at all other than the 4 second stun the arms warrior could do or the 6 second fear that the warriors could do, but would break on damage.We made it thru 3 pulls before the group fell apart, b/c it was absolutely brutal.LFG screwed the group.Some of those heroics were over-tuned, and some were undertuned. I think what Blizzard did was the right thing. Putting an animtion in for an aoe effect isnt a nerf. Making adds die faster isnt really a nerf. Taking a third ability out that needed to be interupted on a fight, was not a nerf. Its not like you can run in and AOE tank 20 mobs like we used to. It just means that more people will be able to enjoy the run b/c they will actually be able to complete the fight, and those people that are putting on PVP gear to cheese the GS built into the game are still going to fail at the fights.Blizz did the right thing. Now if they could just fix the raids where melee are not a liabilty (go read the comments from Paragon concerning melee sitting out in order for the guild to get fights completed if you dont understand it).
1-12-2011 @ 6:34PM
You actually had 2 more CC's then you mentioned I believe.Priest fear when glyped is down right amazing for CC.As well has the DKs freezing ability hungering cold?Even though they are not awesome CC's they are AoE CC's and will do gret things for the group.
1-12-2011 @ 6:37PM
And yes i know what paragon did. i believe all but 2 of their melee sat out for caster/caster alts. But that's because of one ability on a heroic raid boss enounter that is or was nerfed i believe? Melee have always had it bad in raids. Raids jsut favor range over melee which really really sucks, but you have to have melee.
1-12-2011 @ 7:18PM
"The people QQ'ing are mostly the casuals who always get it their way."This is QQ.
1-12-2011 @ 7:42PM
I'm pretty sure that "casuals" rarely take the time to read World of Warcraft sites, and most of all certainly don't take the time to down rate posts they don't like.
1-12-2011 @ 8:35PM
@Silencer, do you ever stop to think that being a Casual is not a birth defect or something that somehow makes said person a bad player? Given the choice, I'd be a more harcore player than I am right now, but alas I do not have that choice. Sometimes being a casual is simply not having the time that hardcore players seem to have to play this game, as such I don't have time to get with a guild and run raids 4 days a week to get the gear to be able to get through heroic dungeons in less than an hour. I'm left with grouping up with any pugs I can find and try my best to finish even one heroic a day if I'm lucky. I have no problem at all with the difficulty of heroics right now, but what I do have a problem with is that if I don't get grouped with players who know what they're doing, I'm essentially wasting my time in there. And if I (as many casuals feel, I'm sure) am cut off from being able to complete heroics [and to that extent anything harder, i.e raids] then what else is there to do in this game? Yes Wrath made raids super easy that more and more casuals started doing them, which resulted in hardcore player backlash because they weren't being challenged. Blizzard fixed this in Cata by increasing difficulty across the board. I don't care to raid right now, I simply don't have the time for it, but heroics used to be at least the territory where casuals could get their fix, and now there's no place for us. I think what blizzard needs to do is just to increase the gear gap and difficulty between heroic dungeons and raids, if only to boldly demonstrate that raids ARE, in fact, Hardmode. This way, hardcore players feel challenged, and casuals know where they stand and don't feel as left out of content.
1-12-2011 @ 10:09PM
@SilencererI downgraded you for using the term "are a joke". Overused derisive term.
@ XalkoI agree with everything you said, except the last part. Why can't hardmodes of raids be the hardmodes, though? This is my biggest issue with Cata heroics being long and difficult. I thought the point of making raiding more accessible in Wrath was to not only enrich and expand gaming options for casual players, but to ensure that people who had the drive and skills could see this wonderful content Blizz spent so much time on. Raids *were* hardmodes for two whole expansions, and Wrath, to its credit, ended that.Heroics and Raids were too easy for the most part in Wrath and Blizz dropped the ball on some hardmodes in 3.2 and 3.3, I get it, but why does this whole difficulty thing have to be a all-or-nothing deal? Why can't people who don't have a ton of time to raid still raid when they can, and those who can afford to spend more time have their hardmodes?My guild is small and casual, we raid one night and (sometimes) one afternoon a week. But we were able to finish Ulduar, TOTC, and ICC on our time and on our own terms, barely getting LK before 4.0.1. We made very limited attempts at hardmodes because we understood that they weren't for us, and we were just fine with it *because we got to raid anyway*. Our slow, casual, progression shouldn't and didn't impede any hardcore guilds from doing their hardmodes.None of us mind that Cata heroics are hard and require significant coordination and skill, but at the same time Cata heroics may prevent us from raiding, if only because pugging isn't worth the gamble for casual gamers (as you said), and rallying people together for a 2 hour 5-man can be tough.We're not asking for welfare epics or to be ilvl9000 without effort, we just want to be able to see and enjoy content on the same terms we were able to enjoy it in the last expansion. Content shouldn't have to be easymode to cater to casuals or ridiculously hard and time-consuming so hardcores get their kicks. We can both have our cake here.
1-12-2011 @ 11:04PM
@N-trainYou're right, but this whole argument boils down to the simple fact that many of the hardcore players don't want you to have any cake at all, because the cake doesn't taste as good to them if other people are allowed to have it too. Even when they have heroic cake you're still not allowed to taste the normal cake, because you should know your place and be happy with bread and water.
1-13-2011 @ 12:12AM
So what are you saying? Should they retune all the heroics so that they are now hard for people in raid gear despite dropping gear that doesn't matter to raiders?
1-13-2011 @ 8:31AM
4 Grey comments by the same poster in one little thread. That has to be some sort of record.
1-13-2011 @ 12:23PM
Well if they are too easy for you in raid gear Silencerer, then TAKE IT OFF and put your old stuff back on. Jesus - saying 'I outgear it and its now easy' is like saying "I found kindergarden hard first time round - but now im 40 its easy"
1-13-2011 @ 2:00PM
@VSUReaperThat group composition doesn't sound as bad to me as it might seem, at first. You just have to be somewhat creative in how you use your assets. What I see in that comp is a ridiculous amount of short-cooldown interrupts, three separate disarms, four aoe fears, one of which can be used multiple times in a single pull, a ranged silence, and a significant amount of aoe dmg with no need to worry about breaking CC. In addition, you potentially have up to four individuals in the group that could be tanking or offtanking a mob at any given time. I'm guessing that you could handle most heroics with that group.
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