Guild experience changes in patch 4.0.6
by Anne Stickney 
Jan 13th 2011 at 5:00PM
ZarhymWe have redefined the definition of a Guild Group for 5-player dungeons.
- If 3 out of 5 players in a group are members of the same guild, they will now be able to complete guild achievements and earn guild experience at 50% of the normal rate.
- If 4 out of 5 players in a group are members of the same guild, they will now be able to complete guild achievements and earn guild experience at 100% of the normal rate.
- If 5 out of 5 players in a group are members of the same guild, they will now be able to complete guild achievements and earn guild experience at 125% of the normal rate.
- Also note that Heroic dungeons offer a 1.5x multiplier on all guild experience earned.
Right now, in order to count as a guild group, four out of the five party members of that team must be from your guild. With these changes, a guild will be able to take three members along and still qualify for guild experience, albeit at a slower rate. What does this mean? Mainly that smaller guilds have more of a chance to reach that experience cap that larger guilds have been hitting without fail every day. The experience gain is only 50% of the normal rate, but at least doing dungeons with your guild members in smaller numbers will actually mean something.
On the other end of the spectrum, if all five players in a dungeon run are from the same guild, that group now earns a staggering 125% guild experience. Why the change? It seems as though Blizzard is trying to encourage people to group with their guild members, by offering more incentives for doing so. This is all well and good, but if more guilds are running dungeon groups, this means less people using the dungeon finder and longer queue times for those who have to wait. We'll have to wait and see what the results from these changes look like once the patch hits live.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Andrew R. Jan 13th 2011 5:03PM
This might be a silly question but it's been something I've been pondering. Do we get guild exp from Cata dungeons or all dungeons if we run them with our guild regardless of level?
murmaiderxx Jan 14th 2011 1:03AM
Not unless there is a quest in there.
Eddy Jan 13th 2011 5:57PM
I've been noticing guild *reputation* from Classic and BC raids I've been doing with my guild on level 85 characters. I don't know if this means that we're getting guild experience also, but I imagine so (just not as much as, say, level-appropriate raids.)
Carson Jan 14th 2011 12:20AM
Yes. It's not very much. We did some lowbie instances for the achieves last night, and even Stockade was awarding a little guild xp (a few hundred per boss I think?) and rep (3-4 rep per boss).
Boobah Jan 14th 2011 1:11AM
Guild reputation is a percentage of the guild XP you contribute. If you're getting guild rep, it's because you contributed to guild xp.
It's worth pointing out, though, that a guild that's capped for the day can still give out rep, and being rep capped for the week won't prevent you from earning xp for your guild.
ScrubRogue Jan 13th 2011 5:08PM
I can already play my entire gaming session in the LFD queue and log out without finding a match. Guess I'll never get to do dungeon runs.
Scooter Jan 13th 2011 5:23PM
Play a healer or a tank and get yer buddies to do the same. The dungeon finder queue times are not Blizzards fault. You can speed things along if you group up with a few friends. Other then that your in a line with the rest of us.
The only way this could be Blizzards fault is if they downsized the servers which control the instances. If that's the case then fine. If not, then quit your complaining. It's past old.
Schadow Jan 13th 2011 6:19PM
@ Scooter: To an extent you have a point, but a rogue is a bit stuffed as far as performing other roles is concerned.
If you see warriors QQing about queues, then by all means have a bash at them for being a part of the problem instead of a part of the solution. Same goes for pallies, DKs, and druids. All of them can tank, so if they want shorter queues it is within their power to change that. If they choose not to tank, then they should also choose not to complain.
It is not in the power of a rogue, hunter, mage, or warlock to fix the queueing issue. Rolling another toon does not help them gear their DPS toon. You can't transfer points or award dungeon loot to toons not in the instance.
In the end, the problem is Blizzard's. Tanking is simply not appealing to the majority. Part of that is because of the responsibility placed on tanks, part is the abuse they cop in instances, and part is because at the 25-man level, you don't need 1 tank for every 5 people.
The result of that lack of appeal is fewer tanks in comparison to others. Until that is changed, queues will remain the same. They are long. They are not fun.
From a player perspective, anyone who can tank or heal should be tanking or healing. If Bliz isn't going to come to the party, then we are the only people who can help our friends get reasonable queue times.
Straz Jan 13th 2011 6:27PM
This move is pretty much a bribe to get players to join guilds. I'd wager most of the complaints about heroics being too hard come from PuG players. In a guild run, you're more likely to stick it out and not bail on your group since people actually have some accountability to their guildmates.
QQinsider Jan 13th 2011 6:51PM
"Play a healer or a tank"
This idiotic reply is getting old.
"The dungeon finder queue times are not Blizzards fault"
Yes they are. Blizzard designs the game, Blizzard makes tanking and healing fun or not fun. If insufficient people want to tank or heal because it's not fun, as is the case at present, then that's a fault in Blizzard's design.
Kia Jan 13th 2011 6:58PM
@ Scooter
But it is Blizzard's fault, given that the reason for the ridiculous queues at the moment is mostly because no one wants to heal anymore. If they fixed the mechanics so healing was actually enjoyable, then they'd pick back up a little.
I know I absolutely refuse to heal a pug at the moment, just because even in a guild run I struggle with my gear level. Like hell I'm about to do it with a PUG that doesn't even know what the hell they're doing.
Ian Jan 13th 2011 8:12PM
The issue is not blizzard's fault since despite introducing another class capable of tanking, the death knight, the situation has if anything gotten worse instead of better.
It is a player issue, and that only.
When I rolled a tank during a previous PTR for the first time, dps were constantly dictating dungeon pulls and off-tanking despite me being the one who specced and signed as a tank.
Look at the way tanks and healers for that matter are treated in a group, getting the blame constantly because dps view their job as nothing more than putting out numbers, being unwilling to hamper that aim by avoiding hazards, or by interrupting/crowd controlling.
Therefore less are wiling to tank or heal, opting for the relatively responsibility free dps role because they do not have to carry anyone.
Sleutel Jan 13th 2011 8:50PM
IMO and IME, the #1 problem with having enough tanks is group role scaling.
5-man: 1 tank for every encounter
10-man: 1-3 tanks; almost always 1-2, and often 1
25-man: 1-4 tanks; almost always 1-2; and often 1
Finding a good raiding guild as a tank is very, very hard, so players who want to raid will play DPS or healers instead.
Priestess Jan 13th 2011 9:11PM
It is my opinion that the entire development staff at Blizzard, and absolutely anyone working on anything related to the Dungeon Finder, should be made to roll heroic-ready tanks and healers and run dungeons with the masses. I believe this would rapidly accelerate the rate at which positive changes are made to the LFD system, as well as shortening the time it takes for us poor regulars get into dungeons.
Carson Jan 14th 2011 12:27AM
@Kia: healers are not the issue. I play a healer, and do not get instant queues. Tanks get instant queues. Tanks are the bottleneck, not healers.
LittleHamster Jan 14th 2011 4:43AM
@Sleutel To get a tank spot in a stable raiding guild, it helps if you are very good at dps. This includes the semi-casual ones. I've been in 3 raiding guilds in my wow life since TBC, and started out life as a MT in Kara. Switched to dps when I need to move on to 25man. (Current guild has Light of Dawn towards the end of Wrath, and 10/12 atm). Tanking isn't hard, and all our plate dps and ferals can tank given gear. We all tanked 5man cata heroics when we first levelled up. We only had 2 main spec tanks, and just recruited a 3rd. All stable raiding guilds will already have a MT. If you join as a new tank, you'll most likely be the 3rd (or even 4th) tank. This means you'll be asked to dps, a lot. (Tbh, do you want to join a guild that ask to you sit out for all fights that don't need a 3rd or 4th tank)? We cannot carry a spare tank who put out 9k dps. Full time tank positions are most likely to be promoted from within.
Etinfall Jan 18th 2011 1:33PM
Actually, 99% of the reason I don't heal pugs is due to the pugees. Healing isn't that difficult now (in a group who knows how to play) and is sure a whole lot funner. But dealing with the moronic D'Baggery from the people pugging is too much to handle.
sd_fuller Jan 13th 2011 5:41PM
I think the point about it having a negative impact on queue times using the LFG tool is spot on. I would also argue we are already seeing this "guild first/only" dungeons runs taking place with the launch of cata. The wait times are way up from what they had been in WoLK, and to me that is due to people not wanting to run with PUGs since the dungeons are harder and require more skill and/or coordination to complete. The guild XP will just make it the wait times even longer.
Artificial Jan 13th 2011 5:13PM
"...this means less people using the dungeon finder and longer queue times for those who have to wait."
It should be noted that average queue time is determined by the proportions of the people queuing for particular roles and the average instance run time. The total number of people in the queue is irrelevant, its only affect is to stabilize the numbers a bit (e.g. the more people are in the queue, the closer your wait time is likely to be to the average wait time -- fewer people = greater variability, but not longer *average* wait times, only a change in the ratios of people queued for roles or a change in the average run time will change the average wait time).
csjenova Jan 13th 2011 5:21PM
This was my thought when I read that criticism. Unless this pulls significantly higher numbers of tanks and healers than dos, which statistically it shouldn't really, more guild runs shouldn't drastically affect queue times.
If anything, I would warrant a guess that it would pull higher numbers of DOS out of the pool which would actually drop queue times, but I doubt that would even be a significant change.